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Archive through December 15, 2004Johanna22 12-15-04  6:34 pm
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David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 12:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a Christmas puzzle?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a Christmas puzzle? it is indeed, for I am incapable of original thought. :)
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Herald angels relevant?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 2:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Herald angels relevant? I'm afraid so
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 2:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If we know only the commonly-sung version of "Hark the herald angels sing", do we know all "relevant lyrics" necessary to make progress?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If we know only the commonly-sung version of "Hark the herald angels sing", do we know all "relevant lyrics" necessary to make progress? well, the verse in question is not all that commonly sung, at least around here, but since you have identified the song, I imagine you have all the lyrics you need
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 2:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The trouble is that I may have far more lyrics than I need :( The compost heap gets deeper by the year. Around here, we sing:

Hark! The herald angels sing,
"Glory to the newborn King.
Peace on earth, and mercy mild,
God and sinners reconciled."
Joyful all ye nations rise,
Join the triumph of the skies;
With the angelic host proclaim,
"Christ is born in Bethlehem!"
Hark! The herald angels sing,
"Glory to the newborn King."

Christ by highest Heaven adored,
Christ the everlasting Lord.
Late in time, behold Him come,
Offspring of a virginís womb.
Veiled in flesh the Godhead see,
Hail the incarnate Deity,
Pleased with man as man to dwell,
Jesus our Emmanuel.
Hark! The herald angels sing,
"Glory to the newborn King."

Hail the heaven-born Prince of Peace,
Hail the Sun of Righteousness!
Light and life to all He brings,
Risen with healing in His wings.
Mild He lays His glory by,
Born that man no more may die.
Born to raise the sons of earth,
Born to give them second birth.
Hark! The herald angels sing,
"Glory to the newborn King."


But, as with almost all popular songs, there are very many variations. Charles Wesley's original words were:

Hark, how all the welkin rings,
"Glory to the King of kings;
Peace on earth, and mercy mild,
God and sinners reconcil'd!"

Joyful all ye nations, rise,
Join the triumph of the skies;
Universal nature say,
"Christ the Lord is born to-day!"

Christ, by highest Heaven ador'd,
Christ, the everlasting Lord:
Late in time behold him come,
Offspring of a virgin's womb!

Veil'd in flesh, the Godhead see,
Hail th' incarnate Deity!
Pleas'd as man with men to appear,
Jesus, our Immanuel here!

Hail, the heavenly Prince of Peace,
Hail, the Sun of Righteousness!
Light and life to all he brings,
Risen with healing in his wings.

Mild he lays his glory by,
Born that man no more may die;
Born to raise the sons of earth;
Born to give them second birth.

Come, desire of nations, come,
Fix in us thy humble home;
Rise, the woman's conquering seed,
Bruise in us the serpent's head.

Now display thy saving power,
Ruin'd nature now restore;
Now in mystic union join
Thine to ours, and ours to thine.

Adam's likeness, Lord, efface,
Stamp thy image in its place.
Second Adam from above,
Reinstate us in thy love.

Let us then, though lost, regain,
Thee, the life, the inner man:
O, to all thyself impart,
Form'd in each believing heart.


and some of those words surive in what may be "commonly sung" in foreign parts (the English version I have quoted is the result of amendments by Whitfield, Madan, Chope, and others). I guess it might help if you could just tell us what the words relevant to the puzzle actually are :)
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

born that man no more may die? maybe just the women die then ?...:)
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mild he lays his glory by,
Born that man no more may die;
Born to raise the sons of earth;
Born to give them second birth.

or maybe the general lack of pc ness suggests that only the women are destined to remain unsaved while the men and the sons are guaranteed salvation.

gee - wonder if a woman wrote this?....hmmmmm....:):):)
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

born that man no more may die? that's right maybe just the women die then ? well, it's a bit more complicated than that
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

or maybe the general lack of pc ness suggests that only the women are destined to remain unsaved while the men and the sons are guaranteed salvation. but not this sort of thing
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am not sure what we are looking for here. Has someone, in the context of this puzzle, been born in order that men should not die? Has some promise of immortality been made? that has failed?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am not sure what we are looking for here. Has someone, in the context of this puzzle, been born in order that men should not die? Has some promise of immortality been made? that has failed? The idea is that the birth of Christ signifies that "man no more may die". Obviously it's not true that men don't die anymore at all (in the usual sense, that is - if you want to debate the immortality of the soul, do it in the Chatroom). But under a rather Buzzardish interpretation of the preceding, the implication is that a certain group of about forty thousand dead USian humans consists entirely of women.
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did these people share a common belief? Were they Christians?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did these people share a common belief? for svv of "belief" Were they Christians? chances are that most of them were (for svv of "Christians")
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this commmon, vague "belief" matter to the puzzle? Does some other common factor matter?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this commmon, vague "belief" matter to the puzzle? somewhat Does some other common factor matter? yes
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would this "belief" better be described as a superstition? a belief without foundation?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would this "belief" better be described as a superstition? a belief without foundation? neither
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant belief a matter of faith? a matter of fact? an unproven hypothesis?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant belief a matter of faith? a matter of fact? an unproven hypothesis? none of these, really - more like a matter of opinion
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this opinion related to: health? diet? politics? religion? personal relationships? work? climate? philosophy? science?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 4:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this opinion related to: health? diet? this is involved politics? religion? as is this personal relationships? and this work? and this climate? philosophy? science?

I should probably point out that this common "opinion" is not the most important thing linking the people in this group - many millions of other people share it as well
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 5:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did these people live in close proximity to one another?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 5:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did these people live in close proximity to one another? no, or irrelevant
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 5:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they communicate with one another? did they know of one another's existence?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, December 17, 2004 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they communicate with one another? no, or irrelevant did they know of one another's existence? no, or irrelevant
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this have anything to do with the first Gulf War?
Tommy Petersson (Tommyp)
Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the approx. 40,000 people's deaths have something in common (more than that the deaths caused them to die...)?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa) on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 08:54 pm:


Does this have anything to do with the first Gulf War? no

By Tommy Petersson (Tommyp) on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 10:02 pm:


Did the approx. 40,000 people's deaths have something in common (more than that the deaths caused them to die...)? yes
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 1:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Middle East relevant? A certain Israeli prime minister relevant?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Middle East relevant? no A certain Israeli prime minister relevant? no
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they all die on the same date? (though in different years, bien entendu)
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they all die on the same date? yes indeed (though in different years, bien entendu)

************ SPOILER ************

From what I am told is the "usual source":

Christmas is the deadliest day of the year for Americans with 12.4 percent more deaths than normal, researchers said on Monday.

More Americans die from heart attacks and other natural causes on Christmas, the day after and on New Year's Day than on any other days of the year, the researchers reported.

It is probably because people are feeling too busy or too festive to go to the hospital over the winter holiday season, the researchers wrote in Monday's issue of the journal Circulation.

The researchers, sociologist David Phillips of the University of California San Diego and colleagues there and at Tufts University in Boston, found a 4.65 percent increase in heart deaths and just shy of a 5 percent increase in non-heart deaths over the 14 days spanning the December holidays.

They did not count deaths from suicide, murder or accidents and took into account the perilous effects of a cold snap on health.

"We found that there is a general tendency for cardiac and noncardiac deaths to peak during the winter, but above and beyond this seasonal increase, there are additional increases in heart attack and other deaths around Christmas and New Year's," Phillips said in a statement.

In all, Phillips and colleagues counted more than 42,000 "extra" deaths during the holidays over a 26-year period. Only two years did not see this phenomenon -- 1973, when oil prices peaked and people tended not to travel, and 1981, when a severe recession also kept Americans at home.

"Of all the things we considered that might impact the increase in holiday deaths from natural causes, only two were consistent with our data," Phillips said.

"One possibility is that people tend to delay seeking care for symptoms. Another is that there are often changes in medical staff during the holidays and, consequently, the quality of medical care might be compromised."


But as anyone knows who has learned all the verses to "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing", the birth of Christ is supposed to mean that "man no more may die." So maybe the victims of these 42,000 extra deaths were all women.

Thanks and Happy New Year to all who participated.
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and, of course, survived :)

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