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Archive through January 24, 2005David Burn22 1-24-05  4:19 pm
Archive through January 26, 2005Jens Weber22 1-26-05  11:43 am
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Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the crow to be placed somewhere specific? Yes
What is this "somewhat" business:
Is it a normal part of a crow?
A beak? Not a physical "somewhat"
So the other things were not crows? Correct
The Crow was the first crow Al purchased? Yes Relevant? Yes
Was it a white crow? It probably was black, but the color does not matter
Was it still alive at the time Al had it? Yes
male crow? relevant? No, it could have been male or female
Were the hundred similar items birds? Yes
live birds? Yes
other live animals? No
parts of animals? No
anorganic things? manmade things? No to both
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any of these relevant about the crow:
Appearance?
Sound it makes?
Smell it gives off?
It's feathers?

Did he intend to kill it?
Stuff it (taxidermy fashion)?
Stand it somewhere?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any of these relevant about the crow:
Appearance? Only to the extent that the bird appears to be a crow, so yes
Sound it makes? No
Smell it gives off? No
It's feathers? No
Did he intend to kill it? No
Stuff it (taxidermy fashion)? No
Stand it somewhere? YES
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the crow unusually quiet / still / serene?
Something else?

Presumably we need to find out where he wanted to stand it?

Did he have a certain expectation of something subsequently occurring, once he stood it on the desired spot?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just checking ..
Did the crow appear to have some special quality?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the crow unusually
quiet Maybe, but this isn't what Al noticed
still Yes
serene? Yes, this also
Something else? No, these are the main qualities
Presumably we need to find out where he wanted to stand it? Yes, big part of the solution

Did he have a certain expectation of something subsequently occurring, once he stood it on the desired spot? Yes, without a doubt - good q

Did the crow appear to have some special quality?
Yes, and your questions above have identified it: the crow was still and serene, and I think it's fair to say, as you did, that from Al's experience this was unusually the case with birds
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP

Al purchased a crow that he noticed to be particularly still and serene. He had recently had access to hundreds of other birds, but felt the need to purchase this one.

Al had an expectation of something after he got this crow to stand in a certain spot.

The crow was relatively cheap in comparison to all the money Al was about to make.
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he want the bird to appear as if it was stuffed / dead?

Was he about to embark on a wager?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 6:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Al think this crow in this place had some superstitious significance?
Does it matter how/where/when/why he had "had access" to these other birds? Or is it just the fact that he had had access to them?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he want the bird to appear as if it was stuffed / dead? No, actually quite the opposite!

Was he about to embark on a wager? In a way - you could call it a "wager", but this would be using slang, and not actually by definition what he was really doing. People engage in acts like what Al did quite often, and sometimes they are referred to in similar terms as "wager"

Did Al think this crow in this place had some superstitious significance? No
Does it matter how/where/when/why he had "had access" to these other birds? Absolutely, therein lies the solution
Or is it just the fact that he had had access to them? It is relevant and helpful to know this, but more important to know why this was the case
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When you say 'collect', did he actually physically possess the other birds? Were they caged? by him?
Or does 'collect' have another meaning besides 'possess' or 'own'?
Was he a bird watcher? avid?
Is it relevant where he bought it? a pet store? shop? bazaar? random guy in a jungle somewhere?
Is the seller relevant, other than the fact the Al bought the crow from him?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he run a pet shop? Did he use the crow to stand in the shopping window to attract more customers?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 7:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he intend to swap this bird with another, say an inanimate model?
Perhaps he wanted to create an illusion?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When you say 'collect', did he actually physically possess the other birds? No
Were they caged? No
by him? N/A
Or does 'collect' have another meaning besides 'possess' or 'own'? In this case yes
Was he a bird watcher? avid? No to both
Is it relevant where he bought it? Not really
a pet store? shop? bazaar? No to these
random guy Random kid, actually
in a jungle somewhere? No
Is the seller relevant, other than the fact the Al bought the crow from him? No
Did he run a pet shop? No
Did he use the crow to stand in the shopping window to attract more customers? N/A
Did he intend to swap this bird with another, say an inanimate model? No
Perhaps he wanted to create an illusion? No - he did want to create something, but 'illusion' wouldn't be the word to use
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he trying to demonstrate that crows can remain immobile? that he has some control over this crow? or crows in general? or birds in general?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he work in a circus?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he trying to demonstrate that crows can remain immobile? No
that he has some control over this crow? No
or crows in general? No
or birds in general? No

HINTThe issue of control is worth exploring a little more

Did he work in a circus? No
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a hypnotist?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a hypnotist? No
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The intended location for the bird:

Indoors ?
Outside?
Among other birds?
Among other animals?
In a display of some sort?
Was it important that the bird stood relatively still / stayed put?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he want to paint (do a picture of the bird)?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The intended location for the bird:

Indoors/Outside? Could be either
Among other birds? No
Among other animals? No
In a display of some sort? YES
Was it important that the bird stood relatively still / stayed put? Yes
Did he want to paint NO, but...
(do a picture of the bird)? YES
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It has often seemed to me that if Carpaccio, who painted The Stoning of Saint Stephen, had collaborated with van Gogh, who painted "Wheat Field with Crows", the resulting picture could have been called "Stone the Crows".
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a photographer in the early years of photography (some 150 years ago, the exposure time was several minutes so that to take a picture of the bird, it would have to be able to stand still for several minutes)?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he seeting up a photo for something (or somebody) famous?

Anything with Crow in the title significant?
e.g. The movie "The Crow"?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 3:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or, indeed, the movie "The Birds"?

I sometimes think I'd rather crow
And be a rooster, than I'd roost
And be a crow. But I dunno.

A rooster, he can roost also,
Which don't seem fair when crows can't crow.
Which may help some. Still, I dunno.

Crows should be glad of one thing, though:
Nobody thinks of eating crow,
While roosters - well, they're good enough
For anyone (unless they're tough).

There's lots of tough old roosters, though.
And anyway, a crow can't crow.
So maybe roosters stand more show.
It looks that way. But I dunno.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a photographer in the early years of photography (some 150 years ago, the exposure time was several minutes so that to take a picture of the bird, it would have to be able to stand still for several minutes)? No

Was he seeting up a photo for something (Yes
or somebody) This too
famous? Yes

Anything with Crow in the title significant? No
e.g. The movie "The Crow"? Well not this movie, but...
Or, indeed, the movie "The Birds"? YES, this movie
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, Bodega Bay up in scenic Marin...

Is the protaganist of your puzzle Mr. Hitchcock?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the protaganist of your puzzle Mr. Hitchcock?
Indeed it is
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the many other birds he'd had at his disposal were the various birds (whether real-live or real-dead or puppet) used in shooting the movie?

Was this the bird chosen to pose with him during his introductory bit? Did it sit still throughout the bit and then move or caw at the end? Or was it only used for stills?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the many other birds he'd had at his disposal were the various birds (whether real-live or real-dead or puppet) used in shooting the movie? Exactly

Was this the bird chosen to pose with him during his introductory bit? Maybe, but see below

Did it sit still throughout the bit and then move or caw at the end? No

Or was it only used for stills? Yes

This seems to tie up most of the details - spoiler to follow...
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

**S P O I L E R**

As a promotional idea for Alfred Hitchcock's movie 'The Birds', photos of Mr. Hitchcock were taken with a crow perched on his shoulder. This bird was not in the movie, and was not even seen until filming for the movie had ended. One of the staff saw a 12 year old boy with a trained crow sitting on his shoulder and paid the boy $12 to buy the bird. Although there were hundreds of birds used in filming, the only way to make them stay in place was to feed them and then leave food scattered on the ground - none of them were trained to perch on someone's shoulder.

The photos with Mr. Hitchcock and the crow were used to promote the film.


Nice work everyone, extra point to Tim for bringing it all to a close
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice one!

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