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Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Barney and Basil are proud to announce that they never did it but perhaps Barney's achievment is the most noteworthy
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Basil = any relation to a certain Mr. Fawlty?

"It" = a crime?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Basil = any relation to a certain Mr. Fawlty? Absolutely!

"It" = a crime? No
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Barney and Basil = both human? adult?

So, there is a relationship, eh? is this puzzle based on any FT episodes?

Barney = any relation to Det. Miller?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Barney and Basil = both human? Yes
adult? Yes

So, there is a relationship, eh? Yes
is this puzzle based on any FT episodes? Not as such

Barney = any relation to Det. Miller? Bingo!
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, are we dealing with the two as characters in their worlds? or as actors in ours?

It = something to do with business? awards?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, are we dealing with the two as characters in their worlds? no
or as actors in ours? no
We are dealing with the two sitcom comedy shows

It = something to do with business? no
awards? yes
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Referring to Basil and Barney instead of the full titles of the shows really threw me off. Good job. :)

Is the fact that Barney was on TV quite a bit longer than Basil relevant?

Fawlty Towers was great, but why so short? I was able to fit almost the entire series, barring two episodes, on just one VHS tape. Distressing. :(
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 8:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the fact that Barney was on TV quite a bit longer than Basil relevant? Yes

You are doing very well so far!

Fawlty Towers was great, but why so short? I echo the same
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Emmy award relevant?

Is an award both shows _didn't_ recieve relevant?

Is their achievement related to ratings?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Emmy award relevant? no

Is an award both shows _didn't_ recieve relevant? Yes

Is their achievement related to ratings? Yes but not ratings as defined by the number of viewers
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this award British? or USian? neither? both?

Is this award generally considered a positive one to get? or negative?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this award British? no
or USian? yes

neither? no
both? it could be considered as international

Is this award generally considered a positive one to get? no
or negative? yes
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP

The American sitcom "Barney Miller" and the British sitcom "Fawlty Towers" both failed to do "this". It is related to an American-cum-International award not related to the numbers that watched the shows. The "award" is a negative one.
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an award for worst TV episode/season/series?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 9:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an award for worst TV episode/season/series? No
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an award for 'most hackneyed show' - Barney Miller being more noteworthy due to their 170 episodes, as opposed to Fawlty Tower's mere 12?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Ed

Is it an award for 'most hackneyed show' - Barney Miller being more noteworthy due to their 170 episodes, as opposed to Fawlty Tower's mere 12? No, however this is a valuable observation and perhaps it is time for some clarification.

Remember that both Barney Miller and Fawlty Towers "Never did it" meaning of course that they never did ... You need to find out what they both never did. What they failed to do is something to be proud of. It is related to a negative award, although, perhaps the term "award" is a little misleading.

I would say that the fact that Barney Miller ran for so many episodes makes that show's achievement of "never doing it", even greater.

So, what is it that they never did?

To find out the exact term will require specialist knowledge but you can discover the idea without that knowledge.
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this "award" related to the principle actors? secondary actors? minor actors? guest stars? the storylines? length of time on air? number of repeats? clip shows? repeats? cross-overs? the production staff behind making the show? the cuts/pans/tilts etc used in the show?
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...the number of locations used?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this "award" related to the principle actors? secondary actors? minor actors? guest stars? the storylines? length of time on air? number of repeats? clip shows? repeats? cross-overs? the production staff behind making the show? the cuts/pans/tilts etc used in the show?

...the number of locations used?

None of these Ed
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jumped the shark?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jumped the shark? 100% correct. Please would you do us the honour by way of explanation?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Jump the shark" originated as a phrase to describe the various efforts of sitcoms to revive a flagging audience share. The phrase is derived from the Happy Days episode (I think it was a two-parter) in which Fonzi jumps over a shark on water skis. Other methods of shark-jumping include adding new characters or shooting lead characters. Apparently neither Barney Miller nor Farty Towels Faulty Towers ever had to resort to a "jump the shark" episode to revive waning popularity...
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, "Fawlty".
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well done Tim.

I have to go out now but I'll post the spoiler later.

Essentially a show that is said to have "jumped the shark" reached it's peak at that point and started to decline in quality.

Most shows jump the shark at some point but Fawlty Towers and Barney Miller never did - I'll prove it later.
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was going to ask about jumping the shark and I didn't! Stupid, stupid me! :(

Go ahead and post the spoiler and further my grumpy mood today!

:) Joking.
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

******************* SPOILER ******************

They both "Jumped The Shark"


What is "Jumping The Shark"?

Never Jumped Click on "never jumped" bottom of left hand column

Barney Miller never jumped - proof

Fawlty Towers never jumped - proof

In my humble opinion - the best American and best British sitcoms of all time.
Neither jumped the shark and Barney Miller never even jumped after -what was it- 125 episodes!


We will give Fred the benefit of doubt and he is promoted to share the honours with Tim! :)
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, and I agree about both shows, of course. :)
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As they just had the 30th reunion of Happy Days on TV the other night, I thought I'd mention that Gary Marshall pointed out they had 100 more episodes after the shark-jumping one. And it did create two successful (i. e. not the Joanie-Chachie thing) spin offs--Laverne and Shirley is the obvious one, but who out there knows which sit-com title character originally appeared as a character on a single episode of Happy Days? No fair googling.

I bet Fred knows. :O
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 1:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, that's easy. NANU, NANU!

It was Mork of later Monk and Mindy fame, of course.
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 8:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So would the shower scene in Dallas with Bobby Ewing be counted as shark-jumping? Or just far-fetched? :)
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne it would count as both :)

Dallas definitely jumped the shark!
If you look at the site from the link above you can see that 33 people voted to say that Dallas jumped the shark at the detah of Bobby Ewing while the top vote of 45 has been cast for "the dream".

It is worth mentioning that these awards are dynamic and ongoing and the votes are cast by Joe Public. I voted last night.
:)
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MAJOR BLOOPER !!

CORRECTION BELOW


*************** SPOILER *********************

They both FAILED to Jump the Shark


What is "Jumping The Shark"?

Proof that they Never Jumped Click on "never jumped" bottom of left hand column


In my humble opinion - the best American and best British sitcoms of all time.
Neither jumped the shark and Barney Miller never even jumped after -what was it- 125 episodes!


We will give Fred the benefit of doubt and he is promoted to share the honours with Tim! :)
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yup, Fred's right--I actually saw the episode of Happy Days where Mork from Ork made his first appearance on network television--even though I didn't normally watch Happy Days. Actually, it could've been a re-run, for all I know.

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