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Archive through February 05, 2005Arjun22 2-05-05  2:39 am
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(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun)]:

Is the wording of the policy important or just its meaning? Yes.
Did it specify that the baby should be on the lap of another person? YES
And there was some reason why this could not happen? And yes again, sort of.

Great questions-only one or two things to figure out out...
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the policy something like this: Infants under 2 years of age and under 100 cms, not occupying a seat, travel free of charge?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something relevant about the parents (adults) that he was travelling with?
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 3:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were his parents unusually big/ tall/ cramped for room?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alizon (Alizon):

Was the policy something like this: Infants under 2 years of age and under 100 cms, not occupying a seat, travel free of charge? Something like this, but with a bit more.

By Simon Downham (Beroean):

Was there something relevant about the parents (adults) that he was travelling with? YES

By Arjun (Jun):

Were his parents unusually big/ tall/ cramped for room? No...in fact, you could say the opposite.
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If Ty was shorter, would he be able to sit on his parents' (or guardians') lap?
Is it important who he was travelling with? Parents? Some other friends/ relatives? Elder brother/ sister?
Were they unusually short/frail/weak - so they could not keep the baby on their laps?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Ty's parents midgets?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun):

If Ty was shorter, would he be able to sit on his parents' (or guardians') lap? May be a FA brewing.. Ty can sit on the lap as-is.
Is it important who he was travelling with? YES
Parents? Just his father.
Some other friends/ relatives? Elder brother/ sister?
Were they unusually short/frail/weak - so they could not keep the baby on their laps? No, but stick with this line of questions.

By Simon Downham (Beroean):

Are Ty's parents midgets? No
Rose (Tackybritish)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the parents have prosthetic limbs? arms? legs?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Rose (Tackybritish):

Did the parents have prosthetic limbs? arms? legs? No, but...
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the parents suffer with disabilities such as Thalidomide syndrome?
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was his father physically disabled in some way?
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a wordplay on "feet" here?
It was intended by the airline to mean height, but somehow it's being interpreted as a person's feet?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Simon Downham (Beroean):

Did the parents suffer with disabilities such as Thalidomide syndrome? Um... I don't think so. Tell me what that is and I will respond.

By Arjun (Jun):

Was his father physically disabled in some way? YES

By miroac (Miroac):

Is there a wordplay on "feet" here?
It was intended by the airline to mean height, but somehow it's being interpreted as a person's feet? No - there are no puns or double-meanings in the policy's wording (but the wording is important).
Amol D. (Amol)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the age of Ty's father relevant ? his physical characteistics ? whether he had paid full fare ?
Amol D. (Amol)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the problem have to do with the lap of Ty's father ?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the policy say that children with a height up to their parents' waist travel free?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Amol D. (Amol):

Is the age of Ty's father relevant ? No
his physical characteistics ? Yes
whether he had paid full fare ? No- he did for his ticket. Ty flew for free.

By Amol D. (Amol):

Did the problem have to do with the lap of Ty's father ? YES

By Jens Weber (Sundowner):

did the policy say that children with a height up to their parents' waist travel free? No.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wheelchairs relevant?

Is Ty's father unable to sit down? Or unable to sit down for the length of the flight?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Tim A. Dowd (Bodo):

Wheelchairs relevant? Yes, to an extent.

Is Ty's father unable to sit down? Or unable to sit down for the length of the flight? He can sit.
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Ty's father have some artificial organ/ a pacemaker that will get affected if Ty sits on his lap?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun):

Does Ty's father have some artificial organ/ a pacemaker that will get affected if Ty sits on his lap? Nope...

These last few are so close, I think y'all might be thinking a little too hard...
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Ty's father physically entire? or is some part of his body missing? legs, for example?
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When you say the wording of the rule is important, is it the 'sitting on the lap' part that Ty cannot satisfy?
And can he satisfy this condition too if he were a little shorter?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ty's father not have a lap?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alizon (Alizon):

Is Ty's father physically entire? No.
or is some part of his body missing? legs, for example? Ding ding! Yes - just one leg missing, though.

By Arjun (Jun):

When you say the wording of the rule is important, is it the 'sitting on the lap' part that Ty cannot satisfy? Not exactly..
And can he satisfy this condition too if he were a little shorter?

By Simon Downham (Beroean):

Did Ty's father not have a lap? See Alizon's question for status of Daddy's lap.
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the rule say that the head of the child sitting on the parent's lap should not be at a higher level than the parent's? or something like that?
Because Ty's father does not have one leg, does he have to make Ty sit - somewhere else in the same seat? some other seat?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...and stop calling me "Shortly"...
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 3:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun):

Did the rule say that the head of the child sitting on the parent's lap should not be at a higher level than the parent's? or something like that? No, it's a bit simpler than that.

Because Ty's father does not have one leg, does he have to make Ty sit - somewhere else in the same seat? some other seat? No, Ty still sits with his father.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 4:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and by the way, Thalidomide was a sedative and anti-nausea drug that was deemed safe for pregnant women to take for insomnia and "morning" sickness. It turned out, however, to cause severe birth defects--usually of the extremities (flipper-like arms and/or legs, for example). Sort of the Vioxx of the '50s.

So Ty's father is missing a leg but doesn't have a prosthesis and this is causing a conflict with the rules about children under a certain age flying for free while sitting in their guardian's lap, right? Are restraints (e. g. seatbelts) relevant? Does Ty's father have certain restrictions on where he can sit due to his missing leg? Do those restrictions interfere with his ability to hold Ty on his lap?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thalidomide - thanks for responding Tim - Sorry Stocco, I only just noticed your query after reading Tim's notes.
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As a matter of interest, after the usual vivisection research, Thalidomide was deemed to be safe in rats and therefore okay for humans. I suspect that there is a moral in the story there somewhere!
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Ty's father is missing a leg but doesn't have a prosthesis and this is causing a conflict with the rules about children under a certain age flying for free while sitting in their guardian's lap, right? Exactly.
Are restraints (e. g. seatbelts) relevant? No
Does Ty's father have certain restrictions on where he can sit due to his missing leg? Yes but irrel.
Do those restrictions interfere with his ability to hold Ty on his lap? No

Gentle Hint:If Ty had a twin brother, both could not fly for free, unless their mother was also on the flight...
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For some reason, I'm thinking it's unlikely the airline has specific rules about children of one-legged-non-prosthesisified (prosthesificated?) parents and associated laps thereunto...

If Ty had been smaller it wouldn't matter that his dad is short a leg (so to speak)? Would that be because his wee bum would then fit on a single leg? Would a smaller child have some other disposition than a lap? Did Ty have to sit in a carseat or something like that?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Tim A. Dowd (Bodo):

For some reason, I'm thinking it's unlikely the airline has specific rules about children of one-legged-non-prosthesisified (prosthesificated?) parents and associated laps thereunto... Short-sighted on their part, I agree...

If Ty had been smaller it wouldn't matter that his dad is short a leg (so to speak)? No to yope.. The shortness is really a side-effect of something else that would be done to Ty if the airline were strict with its policy. I think it was Alizon that discovered how Ty would be made shorter...

Would that be because his wee bum would then fit on a single leg? Would a smaller child have some other disposition than a lap? No - Ty did end up flying for free on his dad's lap and had no trouble.

Did Ty have to sit in a carseat or something like that? No car seat needed. Then they'd have to pay for another seat.
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ty's height would have had to be changed by cutting off his head? or another part of his body? arm? leg? foot? hand? chest? (I'm confused.)
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 1:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By miroac (Miroac):

Ty's height would have had to be changed by cutting off his head? or another part of his body? arm? leg? foot? hand? chest? (I'm confused.) Along these lines, yes. Though there's not one specific body part that would need to be removed. Just as long as...

If it helps your confusion, don't take the puzzle too seriously..there was really very little chance the airline would have been strict on this particular policy.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 2:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the policy specify the maximum size of the child?
Amol D. (Amol)
Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 6:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the maximum size of the child specified in terms of the sizes of the guardian ? Like: less than the average lengths of the legs of the guadian ?

Did the policy state that the child had to sit on both laps ? between two laps ? Was the technical point about the word laps as opposed to lap ?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Tim A. Dowd (Bodo):

Did the policy specify the maximum size of the child? Nope.

By Amol D. (Amol):

Was the maximum size of the child specified in terms of the sizes of the guardian ? Like: less than the average lengths of the legs of the guadian ? The child's size isn't mentioned.

Did the policy state that the child had to sit on both laps ? between two laps ? Was the technical point about the word laps as opposed to lap ? The policy simply states that children under two years can fly for free, with one disclaimer.

Since this seems to be causing a heacache, here's a SLIGHTLY LESS GENTLE HINT: If a parent had, say, three children under two years old, the policy would require that parent to buy tickets for two of the children, since those two would have to occupy seats. Or in the airline's words...
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So because Ty's dad only has half a lap, Ty should only be half a child?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Tim A. Dowd (Bodo):

So because Ty's dad only has half a lap, Ty should only be half a child? In a nutshell...

***** SPOILER *****

Because the airline is lenient with its policies, Ty's height will not be changed.

It is the policy of Continental Airlines that children under the age of two years can fly for free without a ticket if seated on a parent's lap, but only "exactly one (1) child is permitted per lap of ticketed traveller."

Ty's dad only had one leg, and thus only 1/2 of a lap. If the airline hadn't been lenient, only exactly one-half of Ty would have been able to fly with his dad.

Luckily, the airline allowed Ty to fly intact.


I searched the Continental site after posting this and found that wording is different on their web site than on their literature. I came across the policy about a month ago when my wife and I took our baby daughter to Florida for a few days to escape the Cleveland winter. My wife read the policy to me over the phone, and I chuckled. She said, "What's funny? Are you wondering what a person does who has more than 'Exactly one' kid?" I said, "No - I'm wondering what a person does who has less than exactly one lap."

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