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Archive through February 13, 2005Einar Berg22 2-13-05  11:21 am
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David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should they have drunk it all in order to remove the evidence?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should they have drunk it all in order to remove the evidence? no, that´s not it
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they need/should have tried to get drunk?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they need/should have tried to get drunk? not as a goal in itself, but...
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 12:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If they were drunk, would they have benefited in some way?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If they were drunk, would they have benefited in some way? no - not as such
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 8:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Einar - please check e-mail
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Einar - please check e-mail

You solved it :). I will run it a little while more to see if others make it too.
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 5:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they dying?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they dying? yes
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hi grainbeer...(good name under the circumstances...:))

were the ingredients used in the liquor the problem?
like maybe something poisonous?
contaminated?
"another one" as in an additional one?
or a different one?
is the liquor itself what is killing them?
or something that happened as a consequence of them drinking it that will kill them?
is there any other crime involved here besides the fact that its moonshine?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hi grainbeer...(good name under the circumstances...) you bet :)

were the ingredients used in the liquor the problem? please rephrase, or see below
like maybe something poisonous?
contaminated?
"another one" as in an additional one? no
or a different one? yes
is the liquor itself what is killing them? yes
or something that happened as a consequence of them drinking it that will kill them? no
is there any other crime involved here besides the fact that its moonshine? yesish - but might lead to FA
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they make a mistake?

Would they have realised their mistake if they had "had another one?"
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 1:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

another still maybe?
something about the construction/materials of the still is killing them?
like maybe lead or asbestos?
or some other diabolical substance that i probably have never heard of...:)
about the positioning of the still?
surroundings?
other people involved?
others responsible for whats happening?
deliberately?
accidently?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

From Fred Z (Dref) on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 08:17 pm:

Did they make a mistake? uh, well...yes, sort of...

Would they have realised their mistake if they had "had another one?" no

From kerry hearne (Kerry) on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 01:13 am:

another still maybe? well, yes, maybe....again a possibility of leading to FA
something about the construction/materials of the still is killing them? no
like maybe lead or asbestos? no
or some other diabolical substance that i probably have never heard of...
about the positioning of the still? no
surroundings? no
other people involved? yes .... yesish
others responsible for whats happening? yes
deliberately? yes
accidently? no
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

has someone sabotages the still?
the ingredients?
is the other crime murder?
by the other people involved?
is this the other crime mentioned?
is the alcohol content the problem?
or is some sort of poison being added?
via a supposedly innocuous ingredient?
should they have tried to produce another type of alcohol altogether?
was someone allergic to an ingredient?
is the motive for the poisoning relevant?
is family involved? strangers?
opponents in the moonshine industry? :)
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

has someone sabotages the still? no - and a FA
the ingredients? yes
is the other crime murder? which other crime? This is what it is all about
by the other people involved?
is this the other crime mentioned?
is the alcohol content the problem? yope
or is some sort of poison being added? yesish - beware
via a supposedly innocuous ingredient? not quite sure how to answer that... the most correct answer is probably 'no'
should they have tried to produce another type of alcohol altogether? fa
was someone allergic to an ingredient? no
is the motive for the poisoning relevant?
is family involved? strangers? more or less strangers, but family might be involved too, sort of..
opponents in the moonshine industry? no, I wouldnt phrase it like that, but...
kerry hearne (Kerry)
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok - they have acquired moonshine of sorts by foul means?
was this in a prohibition type time in norway? (sorry - dunno your history)
was it some sort of experimental/proto-type product?
had it been rejected by the makers?
and dumped somewhere?
and picked up by these people who considered it a lucky find?
anything like this?
were the bottles not sealed properly?
and contaminated?
is is this a darwin type situation?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok - they have acquired moonshine of sorts by foul means? moonshine is illegal in Norway, independent of whether it is made at home or bought on the black market
was this in a prohibition type time in norway? (sorry - dunno your history) still is. this is a contemporary story

was it some sort of experimental/proto-type product? no

had it been rejected by the makers?
and dumped somewhere? well.. yope, or noish
and picked up by these people who considered it a lucky find? no

anything like this? not quite on the track, but not far off either

were the bottles not sealed properly? irrelevant
and contaminated?

is is this a darwin type situation? uh... please explain - what is a Darwin situation?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 4:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any incredible amount of stupidity involved here?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any incredible amount of stupidity involved here? no - I wouldn´t say so
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Since there has been very little activity around this puzzle lately, I give a recap in a hope that it will encourage some to go on:


************************ RECAP ************************

A group of about three adult persons have been drinking some kind of moonshine liquor. They have not made the moonshine themselves. Now they are dying. They should have had another one. What has happened, and why should they have had another one?

This is a true story from contemporary Norway.
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you mean that they should have drunk some more of the moonshine? or they should have drunk something else?
Martin Schwenk (Trickymartin)
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we already know what they died of? If not, ist it because of a substance in the moonshine? Do they all die because of the same thing? at the same time? For each death, would you classify it as an accident? murder? suicide? natural cause?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

David Burn (Woubit) on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 07:40 pm:

Do you mean that they should have drunk some more of the moonshine? or they should have drunk something else? YES. But what? And why?

Martin Schwenk (Trickymartin) on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 11:39 pm:

Do we already know what they died of? What do you mean? If you mean if it is stated earlier in the puzzle, the answer is no If not, is it because of a substance in the moonshine? Yes Do they all die because of the same thing? Yes at the same time? Not at the very exact time, but more or less so For each death, would you classify it as an accident? murder? Yes; at least very close to murder suicide? natural cause?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They should have drink more of a non-alcholic drink? soda? water? tea? coffee?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They should have drink more of a non-alcholic drink? NO soda? water? tea? coffee? So none of these
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They should have drank more ale? beer? wine? scotch? liquor? sherry? champagne?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They should have drank more ale? beer? wine? scotch? liquor? Yes. Liquor. None of the others sherry? champagne?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To make themselves sick? as an antidote to the poison?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the moonshine spiked with methanol?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To make themselves sick? no as an antidote to the poison? yope - explore

Was the moonshine spiked with methanol? Yes - exactly. But why should they have continued drinking?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild guess time!

Is the idea here that they should have drunk more alcoholic beverages, so that they would have been too drunk to drink from the strange moonshine?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because ethanol is a treatment for methanol poisoning?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haenlomal (Haenlomal) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 06:28 pm:

Wild guess time!

Is the idea here that they should have drunk more alcoholic beverages, so that they would have been too drunk to drink from the strange moonshine? No. They had already consumed moonshine

David Burn (Woubit) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 -06:29 pm:

Because ethanol is a treatment for methanol poisoning? Not exactly a treatment, but you are very close now. Do you want to continue, or do you want me to s***l it?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 9:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very well. The way I learned it, it went like this: the human liver converts ethanol to acetaldehyde just as it converts methanol to formaldehyde (through the same process, but with one fewer carbon atom). Having lots of formaldehyde in your system is very very bad for you, whereas having lots of acetaldehyde in your system just gives you a hangover. But the liver can only handle so much methanol/ethanol at a time, which means that if you've already consumed a lot of methanol, your best bet is to drink even more ethanol, so that you get a hangover instead of dying.
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

************************ SPOILER ************************


Buzzard has given the full explanation above. No further explanation necessary. The only thing to comment is the sad fact that this has killed a lot of people in Norway the last couple of years. People bought moonshine liquor spiked with methyl alcohol, produced at large quantities in Portugal and smuggled to Norway. Several big shots in the illegal moonshine market are now at trial for murder.

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