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Archive through February 13, 2005Simon Downham22 2-13-05  1:41 am
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Dref (Dref)
Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, then. Goodnight!
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A "fraudulent frame attempt" hey...they were trying to frame someone who had really done the thing for which he/she was being framed?

Was something else used in place of woims? A woim-substitute, as it were? For something for which woims are typically used? Or were there woims in a place where one would normally expect something else? Or were there there but not the kind one might expect (i. e. not proper woims)?

Any attempt to throw off forensics going on here?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dang--that should be "...were there woims there but not...
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A "fraudulent frame attempt" hey...they were trying to frame someone yes who had really done the thing for which he/she was being framed? but no

Was something else used in place of woims? no A woim-substitute, as it were? no For something for which woims are typically used? no Or were there woims in a place where one would normally expect something else? yes Or were there there but not the kind one might expect (i. e. not proper woims)? no

Any attempt to throw off forensics going on here? no

By Tim A. Dowd (Bodo) on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 04:07 pm:

Dang--that should be "...were there woims there but not... Gotcha. ;)
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 7:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is a bit of a tricky scenario, so my apologies if the answers confuse. There was an attempt to frame a man for the crime of fraud. Worms were involved, obtained but not bought for that purpose.

Hope that clarifies a little.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was there a box with a label that said "There are no worms in this box." (or maybe a picture of a worm with a circle-slash) and it was full of worms?

Would it be reasonable to find woims in this place under particular circumstances (e. g. really old food or something)?

Were the woims intended to mimic something woim-like? To perform some particular function in the place they normally-wouldn't-be-found?

Was it a misunderstanding on the part of the woim-planter (i. e. they thought woims would normally be there for some reason)?
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was there a box with a label that said "There are no worms in this box." (or maybe a picture of a worm with a circle-slash) and it was full of worms? no, nothing like that

Would it be reasonable to find woims in this place under particular circumstances (e. g. really old food or something)? NO

Were the woims intended to mimic something woim-like?no To perform some particular function in the place they normally-wouldn't-be-found? no

Was it a misunderstanding on the part of the woim-planter (i. e. they thought woims would normally be there for some reason)? no, there was malice aforethought at work
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 1:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the detective know that these worms did not have a price?
Relevant how many worms? Relevant what species? worms as in larvae?
Were the worms used to frame the man? in order to do some damage to him? in order to cover another crime? in order to direct the attention of the police towards something?
According to the framed scenario, did the man use the worms for the fraud?
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 3:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the detective know that these worms did not have a price? yes
Relevant how many worms? no Relevant what species? nah, just ordinary earthworms worms as in larvae? no
Were the worms used to frame the man? yes in order to do some damage to him? yes in order to cover another crime? no in order to direct the attention of the police towards something? no
According to the framed scenario, did the man use the worms for the fraud? yes
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any particular characteristic of worms that made them especially appropriate for this use? Was he supposed to be passing the worms off as something else? Using them to circumvent some law? Fishing without a permit?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any particular characteristic of worms that made them especially appropriate for this use? no, but... Was he supposed to be passing the worms off as something else? yes Using them to circumvent some law? Fishing without a permit? no to rest
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the worms being used to imply that the other person had been digging in a place that he shouldna?
Was there any buried treasure involved?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the worms being used to imply that the other person had been digging in a place that he shouldna? no, but the frame attempt did indeed try to paint the other man as someone doing something he shouldn't be doing
Was there any buried treasure involved? no
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it important that the worms were alive? That they move? That they can be obtained relatively easily and cheaply anywhere there's dirt? That many people find them disgusting?

Did the detective know how much the intended victim had spent? Would spend?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it important that the worms were alive? FA That they move? no That they can be obtained relatively easily and cheaply anywhere there's dirt? no That many people find them disgusting? THIS

Did the detective know how much the intended victim had spent? Would spend? this
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 2:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I'm gonna eat some..."

The thing(s) the woims were (supposedly) being passed off as--something consumable? Topical?

Were the people-trying-to-frame-our-hero (maybe we should give him and them all names) competitors?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 2:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I'm gonna eat some..." Cereal?

The thing(s) the woims were (supposedly) being passed off as--something consumable? yes Topical? no

Were the people-trying-to-frame-our-hero (maybe we should give him and them all names) competitors? no, but I will give names. I guess we can call the framed hero Jim and the two framers Ken and Ben.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 2:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"...greasy grimy gopher guts, mutilated monkey meat, little bitty birdie feet..."

Some kind of meat product? Meat-like product? Vegetabletarian product?

Was it intended for consumption by humans?

Is the motive of Ken and Ben (we need to start using names like Zane, or Blake, or Zebidiah or something) relevant?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"...greasy grimy gopher guts, mutilated monkey meat, little bitty birdie feet..." Riding little skateboards?

Some kind of meat product? this Meat-like product? Vegetabletarian product?

Was it intended for consumption by humans? yes

Is the motive of Ken and Ben (we need to start using names like Zane, or Blake, or Zebidiah or something) Um, no thanks! relevant? no
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 3:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sure, why not. I had to take a break for dinner and next I'll need to do some child-bathification (would you believe my wife won't let me clean 'em in the dishwasher or the washing machine? Well, not anymore, I mean), but in the meantime...

Ben and Ken insinuated woims into a place which made it appear that Jim was selling/purveying woims as some other form of meat, right? Relevant what the intended/real/advertised meat was? Beef? Chicken? Kangaroo? Rabbit? Turkey? Ostrich? Fish?

Are woims readily available in the locale in which this here puzzle takes place? Is the location/setting of the puzzle relevant?

...and now, off to bathify the child-units...
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 5:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

takes a while to get the gist of it...
The worms were dead?
Were the worms intended to look like meat? intestines?
Or were they intended to look like something attracted to meat, like maggots or something?
Ben and Ken were trying to destroy Jim's business? reputation?
Can we call the detective Sherlock?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ben and Ken insinuated woims into a place which made it appear that Jim was selling/purveying woims as some other form of meat, right? correct Relevant what the intended/real/advertised meat was? not really Beef? but it was this Chicken? Kangaroo? Rabbit? Turkey? Ostrich? Fish?

Are woims readily available in the locale in which this here puzzle takes place? NO Is the location/setting of the puzzle relevant? yes

...and now, off to bathify the child-units... Good luck and don't forget the sock drawer on your way out.

takes a while to get the gist of it... :)
The worms were dead? yes
Were the worms intended to look like meat? according to the frame story, yes intestines? no
Or were they intended to look like something attracted to meat, like maggots or something? no
Ben and Ken were trying to destroy Jim's business? this reputation? and this too
Can we call the detective Sherlock? But of course. ;)
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ben&Ken obtained worms: on their own? by digging them up? some other way? relevant how they obtained them? relevant where they obtained them?
Did they kill the worms? Did they die naturally? relevant?
Was this beef ground beef?
Is the nature of their relationship with Jim relevant? (as in, co-workers? competitors in the same business?)
Could Sherlock tell from looking at the "beef" that it wasn't beef?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ben&Ken obtained worms: on their own? yes by digging them up? this some other way? relevant how they obtained them? no relevant where they obtained them? no, only that is was quite far from the place of business
Did they kill the worms? yes Did they die naturally? relevant? no
Was this beef ground beef? yes
Is the nature of their relationship with Jim relevant? (as in, co-workers? competitors in the same business?) yes, Jim was their boss
Could Sherlock tell from looking at the "beef" that it wasn't beef? FA
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sherlock buy some of the worm-"beef"? Did someone else?
Did Sherlock look at the worm-"beef" at any time? during his investigation?
Sherlock was solving a case, correct?
Did Sherlock know or discover that:
- the "beef" was not actually beef?
- the "beef" was in fact worms?
- Jim didn't do this substitution himself?
- Jim was framed?
- he was framed by Ben & Ken?
- their motive was to destroy Jim's business and reputation?
Are these correct? Are there more facts missing? Is that everything that Sherlock was trying to solve?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sherlock buy some of the worm-"beef"? FADid someone else? no, FA
Did Sherlock look at the worm-"beef" at any time? FA during his investigation?
Sherlock was solving a case, correct? yes
Did Sherlock know or discover that:
- the "beef" was not actually beef? FA
- the "beef" was in fact worms? FA
- Jim didn't do this substitution himself? FA
- Jim was framed? yes
- he was framed by Ben & Ken? yes
- their motive was to destroy Jim's business and reputation? yes
Are these correct? yes, execpt for the major FA that is floating around Are there more facts missing? no Is that everything that Sherlock was trying to solve? more or less
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok. Let me take a big step back....
Ben & Ken (B&K) intended to use the worms to look like beef? Did they actually do this?
B&K actually did frame Jim? or they just intended to?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 4:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok. Let me take a big step back....
Ben & Ken (B&K) intended to use the worms to look like beef? nope, what happened is that they wanted to make it look as if Jim was going to use worms as a substitute for meat, but no actual worm/meat item was cooked up, it's easy to confuse the fictional frame story with what really happened, so sorry if it confuses Did they actually do this? no
B&K actually did frame Jim? no or they just intended to? this, they were caught by Sherlock before they could fully implement the dire scheme
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They were prepared to plant woims somewhere so as to make it look as though Jim was going to serve them to people in lieu of cow, is that right?

Were they caught woim-handed, as it were?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They were prepared to plant woims somewhere so as to make it look as though Jim was going to serve them to people in lieu of cow, is that right? correct in all but one particular, they did actually plant the worms, but when they called in Sherlock to make their accusation and pointed out where the worms were, then they were caught woim-handed...

Were they caught woim-handed, as it were? in a manner of speaking, yes ;)
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are woims (when poichused) more expensive by weight than cow?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

YES, do you have it all now?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 7:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sure. Biff and Zebediah, er, I mean, Ken and Ben were ungruntled employees, so they decided to do something bad to their boss Jimmy. Their plan was to replace the ground beef used at the restaurant (which James owned and where they were employed) with woims, or to insinuate woims into the place in such a way as to make it appear they were intended to replace the cow which was ostensibly being served. When the inspector showed up and they anxiously pointed out the woims (who were patiently waiting to become cows, even though they were dead) and explained Jim's nefarious plan, the inspector realized that if the Jimster had wanted to replace the cow with something else he wouldn't've used woims, because a pound of woims costs more than a pound of cow. Is that about it?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Absolutely, In fact, that is so good, I don't even have to write a spoiler. Thanks! :) Good job everyone and kudos to Tim.

Some minor points:

- Ken and Ben put the worms in a jar and tried to make it look like it had been purchased that way

- Ken and Ben specifically insinuated that Jimmy was going to now buy worms on a regular basis

- And worms were not to be found near Jimmy's home or the restaurant (a fast food joint) but were quite plentiful near Ken and Ben's apartment

- ***** SPOILER *****
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One might think that bosses would eventually learn what a gruntle looked like, so when employees lose their gruntlement (gruntleification?) they'd be able to spot the discarded (cast off? shed?) gruntles lying all over the place and re-apply them to the employees. Perhaps that's a requirement for reaching a management position, when you can no longer discern gruntles (or the lack thereof).
miroac (Miroac)
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 3:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok. Now I got it. Good one, Fred. Is this another actual Sherlock Holmes story?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks!

But no to Sherlock, this was actually a FMOI loosely based on an urban legend.

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