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Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so thus far, we have discovered the following five people:

Bianca: boss of a borderline-criminal organization
Stanley: works for Bianca, and got boiling water poured on him by his boss
Vic: another man who works for Bianca. Deceased.
Marina: A detective investigating the murder of Vic and assault of two others (identities unknown as of now)
Una: The person responsible for the murder and assaults

Is the above correct?

Any more directly relevant people we have yet to discover? If yes, how many? What are their names and genders?

Any more peripherally relevant people we have yet to discover? If yes, how many? What are their names and genders?

Victims of the assault: Bianca and Stanley?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so thus far, we have discovered the following five people:

Bianca: boss of a borderline-criminal organization
Stanley: works for Bianca, and got boiling water poured on him by his boss
Vic: another man who works for Bianca. Deceased.
Marina: A detective investigating the murder of Vic and assault of two others (identities unknown as of now)
Una: The person responsible for the murder and assaults

Is the above correct? yes

Any more directly relevant people we have yet to discover? no If yes, how many? What are their names and genders?

Any more peripherally relevant people we have yet to discover? none that you need to worry about If yes, how many? What are their names and genders?

Victims of the assault: Bianca and Stanley? Stanley, yes. Bianca, no. The other assault victim was another male employee of Bianca, who had the same profession as Stanley and Vic, and you don't need to know anything else about him.
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bianca somehow get the impression that Stanley was either directly or indirectly responsible for Vic's death?

Did the murders and the assaults happen around the same time (i.e. Una attacked Stanley, Vic, and another man. Stanley and another man escaped with injuries. Vic died...)? If not the same time, roughly how far apart were the two assaults and the murder? And which came first?

You mentioned other criminal activity besides the murder and the assaults. Was Marina investigating those as well? Were these other crimes related to money laundering? fraud? exhortion? theft? pyramid schemes? murder-for-hire?

Were they "white collar" crimes?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bianca somehow get the impression that Stanley was either directly or indirectly responsible for Vic's death? no

Did the murders and the assaults happen around the same time (i.e. Una attacked Stanley, Vic, and another man. Stanley and another man escaped with injuries. Vic died...)? no If not the same time, roughly how far apart were the two assaults and the murder? a few days elapsed between each crime and the next And which came first? Stanley was assaulted first, then the other man, then Vic was killed

You mentioned other criminal activity besides the murder and the assaults. Was Marina investigating those as well? yes Were these other crimes related to money laundering? fraud? exhortion? theft? this pyramid schemes? murder-for-hire?

Were they "white collar" crimes? no
Quintus Marcius (Philippus)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the three men debt-collectors?
Did they visit Una at her home? at her place of work?
Alternatively, did Una go to see the men? perhaps even track them down?
Was Una a dissatisfied customer of Bianca's business?

Did Una also commit the thefts?
Were the thefts of money? property?

Did Stanley tell Marina about the assault he suffered?
Did Marina tell Bianca about the assault Stanley suffered?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the three men debt-collectors? no
Did they visit Una at her home? no at her place of work? no
Alternatively, did Una go to see the men? Una met with the men in "neutral" locations perhaps even track them down? no, she did not need to
Was Una a dissatisfied customer of Bianca's business? no, on the contrary

Did Una also commit the thefts? yes
Were the thefts of money? yes, but more than just money property? but not propery

Did Stanley tell Marina about the assault he suffered? yes
Did Marina tell Bianca about the assault Stanley suffered? no, Bianca knew about it already
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "identity theft" involved in this?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "identity theft" involved in this? yes, and to save you a few questions: Una is also guilty of several instances of identity theft. The victims of these identity thefts are people you know nothing about, and don't need to - all you need to know is that Una was operating under several different false identities.
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Una guilty of any other relevant crime(s), other than those already uncovered?
Neil Gummow (Dodgyken)
Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the murder ordered? premeditated? manslaughter? accidental?

If the murder was ordered, who ordered it?

Did Una enjoy the assaults? Murder?

Was Una known to Bianca prior to the assaults and murder?

How borderline is the industry? Slightyly dodgy? breaks the odd law? not the sort of thing you would do? If they were caught doing it how would they punished by law?

Did Marina deliberately tell Bianca? was it a slip of the tongue? Is that fact that Stanley was boiled relvent? Would it make a difference if Bianca had injured him some other way?

What services does Stanley provide Bianca?

Does Stanley mainly work at night? in the day? a mixture? Does he only work for Bianca? Do other people work for Bianca doing the same job as Stanley?

After the boiling does Stanley still work for Bianca? Does the boiling effect Stanley ability to do his job? Does Stanleys job require special skills? training? tools?
Quintus Marcius (Philippus)
Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Una was pretending to be a different person each time she met one of Bianca's employees?
Or were they providing her with the information required for her acts of identity theft?

Did Una intend to injure the men before she met them?

Was Stanley boiled because Bianca felt he could have prevented the murder of Vic?
Did Marina reveal to Bianca that the same person was responsible for all the attacks?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Haenlomal (Haenlomal) on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 03:09 pm:


Is Una guilty of any other relevant crime(s), other than those already uncovered? none that you need to worry about

By Neil Gummow (Dodgyken) on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 09:35 pm:


Was the murder ordered? premeditated? manslaughter? accidental? This is not specified - she may have intended to kill Vic, or she may have intended to assault him like she did the others, but got carried away. But she definitely intended to harm him, and it was nobody's idea but her own.

If the murder was ordered, who ordered it? n/a

Did Una enjoy the assaults? probably Murder? likewise

Was Una known to Bianca prior to the assaults and murder? no

How borderline is the industry? Slightyly dodgy? breaks the odd law? not the sort of thing you would do? If they were caught doing it how would they punished by law? I don't know enough about the details of their operation to answer these questions. There is a very specific crime of which they might or might not be guilty, depending on various subtleties that were not fully explored in the story.

Did Marina deliberately tell Bianca? tell Bianca what? was it a slip of the tongue? Is that fact that Stanley was boiled relvent? see next answer Would it make a difference if Bianca had injured him some other way? no

What services does Stanley provide Bianca? Please ask yes/no questions

Does Stanley mainly work at night? yes - good question in the day? a mixture? Does he only work for Bianca? He might have had a day job doing something else, but it's not relevant. Do other people work for Bianca doing the same job as Stanley? yes, including Vic and the other assault victim

After the boiling does Stanley still work for Bianca? irrelevant, but... Does the boiling effect Stanley ability to do his job? ...it probably would Does Stanleys job require special skills? not really training? not formal training, at least tools? no

By Quintus Marcius (Philippus) on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 11:09 pm:


So Una was pretending to be a different person each time she met one of Bianca's employees? yes
Or were they providing her with the information required for her acts of identity theft? no

Did Una intend to injure the men before she met them? yes

Was Stanley boiled because Bianca felt he could have prevented the murder of Vic? no
Did Marina reveal to Bianca that the same person was responsible for all the attacks? yes
Quintus Marcius (Philippus)
Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Bianca run an escort agency? or something along those lines?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Bianca run an escort agency? yes indeed or something along those lines? very much along those lines
Neil Gummow (Dodgyken)
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 7:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So summary time.
Bianca runs an escort agency
Stanley, Vic and others are the escorts
Una assaults the escorts - and murders one

Is the important bit what Marina told Bianca? And is this what Stanley knew about the murders/assaults?

Is Unas motive to assault and murder relevent?

Is Unas profession important?

Was being assaulted an "extra" provided by the escorts?

And if so was Bianca aware of these "extra" services? Did she approve of them? Did she suggest them?
Quintus Marcius (Philippus)
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The other approach to the initial puzzle statement:

Did Stanley tell Marina more about his work than Bianca felt he should have done?
Did Marina develop more than a detective/witness relationship with Stanley?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Neil Gummow (Dodgyken) on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 07:44 am:


So summary time.
Bianca runs an escort agency true
Stanley, Vic and others are the escorts true
Una assaults the escorts - and murders one true

Is the important bit what Marina told Bianca? no And is this what Stanley knew about the murders/assaults? no - remember that Stanley was the victim of one of the assaults, so he certainly knew about them

Is Unas motive to assault and murder relevent? no - just imagine that she had a long-standing grudge against male escorts

Is Unas profession important? no

Was being assaulted an "extra" provided by the escorts? no - they would very much prefer not to have been assaulted

And if so was Bianca aware of these "extra" services? Did she approve of them? Did she suggest them? n/a

By Quintus Marcius (Philippus) on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 11:52 pm:


The other approach to the initial puzzle statement:

Did Stanley tell Marina more about his work than Bianca felt he should have done? no
Did Marina develop more than a detective/witness relationship with Stanley? no
Quintus Marcius (Philippus)
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bianca become upset with any of her other employees?
If so, with those who had dealings with Una? with those who had dealings with Marina?

Was Marina's stupidity connected with her handling of evidence? her interviewing? a missed opportunity to capture Una?

Did Stanley make a mistake of some kind? or did he (not) do something on purpose that Bianca disapproved of when she found out?

And (hopefully) to clear up the ambiguity of the last question:
Did Bianca blame Stanley for an act of commission? or one of omission?

By the way, is Marina's "real" name Olivia? It won't help me if the answer's yes, I'm just guessing at the source material for the puzzle.)
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bianca become upset with any of her other employees? no
If so, with those who had dealings with Una? with those who had dealings with Marina? n/a

Was Marina's stupidity connected with her handling of evidence? her interviewing? a missed opportunity to capture Una? none of these

Did Stanley make a mistake of some kind? or did he (not) do something on purpose that Bianca disapproved of when she found out? he did something on purpose that Bianca disapproved of when she found out

And (hopefully) to clear up the ambiguity of the last question:
Did Bianca blame Stanley for an act of commission? this or one of omission?

By the way, is Marina's "real" name Olivia? of course it is :) It won't help me if the answer's yes, I'm just guessing at the source material for the puzzle.)
Quintus Marcius (Philippus)
Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know, it could have been Alex. Although that was admittedly much less likely.

Did Bianca disapprove of Stanley merely talking to the police? saying something specific to the police? giving something to the police?
Did Stanley have further dealings with Una after she assaulted him?

Presumably Bianca knew that Marina had talked to Stanley before Marina's stupidity?
Did Marina tell Bianca that Stanley had committed the act she disapproved of? or did Bianca have to work out who was to blame?

Was Marina's stupidity shown more by something that she said? or by something that she did? or were both words and actions required?
Were only Marina and Bianca present on the occasion of Marina's stupidity? were other relevant people present?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Bianca disapprove of Stanley merely talking to the police? saying something specific to the police? giving something to the police? none of these
Did Stanley have further dealings with Una after she assaulted him? no, but...

Presumably Bianca knew that Marina had talked to Stanley before Marina's stupidity? yes
Did Marina tell Bianca that Stanley had committed the act she disapproved of? no or did Bianca have to work out who was to blame? yes (and once Bianca had "worked out" that the act had been committed at all, it was pretty obvious that Stanley was at least partially responsible.)

Was Marina's stupidity shown more by something that she said? or by something that she did? or were both words and actions required? both words and actions were involved, but the really stupid bit was something she thought
Were only Marina and Bianca present on the occasion of Marina's stupidity? no, Bianca was not present were other relevant people present? Marina and Stanley, and maybe Marina's colleagues (like Eliot or whatever his name is), but you don't have to worry about them
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, Eliot is the right name. :) But seeing that I somehow must have missed this particular episode....

Did Marina think of something stupid, which lead her to say something and do something? Or did Marina say something and do something, and the result of that made her think of something stupid?

The order in which Una did her assaults/murder relevant? If yes, was Stanley Una's first victim?

The "act" that Stanley committed: Was it something he said? Something he did? Both? Was it a one time event? If yes, how long did it take?