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Archive through March 21, 2005Simon Downham22 3-21-05  6:23 pm
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Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Spirits of some sort relevant?
Again this is relevant but we are not careful we might digress.
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 6:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, a long shot in the dark:

Does it have something to do with the special machine recently invented in a supersecret laboratory of a powerful country I would prefer not to name?

The machine enables the scientists to talk to dead persons up to twenty minutes after their death.

However, it still has one flaw: the dead do not answer.
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, a long shot in the dark:

Does it have something to do with the special machine recently invented in a supersecret laboratory of a powerful country I would prefer not to name? No - sorry

The machine enables the scientists to talk to dead persons up to twenty minutes after their death.

However, it still has one flaw: the dead do not answer. :)

The claim of my aquaintance was far more substantial :)
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would your friend need to die to prove his case?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would your friend need to die to prove his case? Yes!
Although he did explain logically in advance how it would be proven
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he claiming he could prove there was an afterlife? that there was a Heaven/Hell? that it would be possible to come back to life again exactly how he was before?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he claiming he could prove there was an afterlife? actually No
that there was a Heaven/Hell? No
that it would be possible to come back to life again exactly how he was before? No

The mystery deepens :-)
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he claiming to be able to communicate with the living (bilaterally, of course) ?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he claiming to be able to communicate with the living (bilaterally, of course) ?
Not this either
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the belief by some that after we die we live the same life over again relevant?

Is time travel relevant? Deja Vu?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the belief by some that after we die we live the same life over again relevant? No

Is time travel relevant? No
Deja Vu? No

No to all but I delight in hearing all these exotic ideas :-)
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim to be able to do some sort of activity after his death?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim to be able to do some sort of activity after his death? Yes
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim to be able to do some sort of activity after his death? Yes

Perhaps Yesish, is more acurrate
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Physical activity (like moving objects)?
Mental activity?
Appearing somewhere?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Physical activity (like moving objects)? Yesish
Mental activity? no
Appearing somewhere? no
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Light/heavy objects?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Light/heavy objects? In this case light
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ancient Egypt relevant?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ancient Egypt relevant? Yes (but not that my friend would have considered it)
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP

Years ago I had an aquaintance who retorted, "Yes I can", with an air of indignation, and without hesitation told me exactly how.

My friend asserted that he could achieve something that neither I or "western civilization" in general believes to be possible.
To achieve it he would first have to die.
Unknowingly his assertion was linked to very similar ancient religious beliefs including those of ancient Egypt.
These beliefs are based on the assumption of an afterlife.
Somehow his assertion does involve the movement of light objects.

Note that it could be quite easy to go down the wrong track here.


What did my friend intend to do and what were his plans for achieving it?

2
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he tell you that he would move, at a mutually agreed point in time, a sheet of paper to prove that afterlife exists?
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would the movement of a light object be before he died? during? after? mummification relevant?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he tell you that he would move, at a mutually agreed point in time, a sheet of paper to prove that afterlife exists?
No but ..
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would the movement of a light object be before he died? during? after? Most likely after although it could be done before

mummification relevant? No but don't you think that the image adds an extra dimension to the mystery? :)
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Egyptians used to bury people's possessions with them, for them to use in the afterlife. Is this relevant?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Egyptians used to bury people's possessions with them, for them to use in the afterlife. Is this relevant? Yes indeed!
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any particular type of possession relevant here? Was he suggesting that this item would move? disappear?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any particular type of possession relevant here? Yesish
Was he suggesting that this item would move? Noish
disappear? Noish
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we need to establish exactly what object he was claiming to be able to move? So in order for him to try and prove this theory, he would need to be buried? underground? or just in a tomb? crypt? Was the posession in question a jewellery item? something made from paper/card? an item of clothing?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we need to establish exactly what object he was claiming to be able to move? Yesish
So in order for him to try and prove this theory, he would need to be buried? Yes
underground? or just in a tomb? crypt? Any of these
Was the posession in question a jewellery item? No
something made from paper/card? Yes
an item of clothing? No

Beware of false assumptions that may mislead.
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 3:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, money relevant?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 8:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, money relevant? Yes
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, is this based on the saying "You can't take it with you" referring to wealth? and he says "Yes, I can!" to that?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, is this based on the saying "You can't take it with you" referring to wealth? and he says "Yes, I can!" to that? Absolutely Correct - well done!

And then he said .... *explains how*
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is wealth relevant in a literal sense (coins, bills, etc.)? or abstract (accounts, savings, etc.)? both?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is wealth relevant in a literal sense (coins, bills, etc.)? or abstract (accounts, savings, etc.)? both? In this case wealth is paper money
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is his money to be placed in/on/near his corpse?

Specific countries money relevant?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think you have achieved enough....


************** SPOILER *****************

There is a well known saying that states “You can’t take it with you” implying that when you are dead material wealth or possessions will be of no further use to you. There is a synonymous Bible scripture at (1Timothy 6:7) which says, “For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out”.

Many years ago when I said to my materialistic companion, “You can’t take it with you”, he immediately retorted, “Oh yes I can – I’m going to have my coffin lined with twenty pound notes”!

I had to smile!


Thanks to all who contributed very creatively and well done to Fred who swooped in with the solution
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 2:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I wasn't expecting that I had it there, but I'll take the credit gladly for the "swoop" anyway! :)

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