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Archive through April 15, 2005Benjamin Moore22 4-15-05  3:42 pm
Archive through April 18, 2005David Burn22 4-18-05  2:55 pm
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Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now, unless "else" is to be interpreted in some fashion other than its customary English sense, this would seem to imply that there are a couple of people "other than" Our Heroine. But what you say above implies that this is not the case. Is this apparent inconsistency resolvable? yes. There are many other people "relevant to the puzzle", about whom you don't need to know anything at all. The bus driver, for one. You know how I feel about "how many people are relevant to this puzzle?" type questions Is it relevant? yes

And if the relevant people really are confined to Our Heroine and one other, is it still right to say that the gender of this other person is irrelevant, given that they "ishishly" form a couple? Oh, come on. There are lots of women who form leather-jacketed relationships with other women, and there is no reason why OH couldn't be one of them.
Tony (E20)
Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the person wearing the leather jacket get on the bus before our heroine? at the same stop? at a later stop?

Did the person in the leather jacket get off the bus before the stop nearest our heroine's house? at the stop nearest our heroine's house? between our heroine's house and the stop where our heroine got off? at the same stop as our heroine?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

First of all, I apologise for the blatant use of cryptic forum-speak. For reasons too complicated for me to explain right now (ask woubit if you really want to know - it's his fault, anyway), "leather jacket" has come to refer to romance (or sex, or marriage, depending on the context). The two central characters of this puzzle were in the early stages of a dating-type relationship, and there is no actual jacket made of leather involved here. But with that said...

Did the person wearing the leather jacket get on the bus before our heroine? at the same stop? this at a later stop?

Did the person in the leather jacket get off the bus before the stop nearest our heroine's house? at the stop nearest our heroine's house? between our heroine's house and the stop where our heroine got off? at the same stop as our heroine? and this
Tony (E20)
Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the explanation ... and apologies for teasing you by using my relative newcomer-ness to feign ignorance J Now, back to the puzzle ...

Is what they were doing immediately before boarding the bus relevant? Did they arrive at the bus stop (the one where they started) together?

Did they sit next to each other on the bus? Did they converse throughout the journey? Did any other (leather jacketed?) interaction take place during the journey? Was our heroine so engrossed with her companion that she missed her stop?

When they left the bus, did they both walk back to our heroine's house? Did they part at the bus stop?

Is this a true story? Would it be beneficial to discover the identities of our heroine and her friend?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the explanation ... and apologies for teasing you by using my relative newcomer-ness to feign ignorance That's okay. I wasn't sure whether you understood what we were talking about or not, and I figured we could stand to have it explained again for the people who didn't, anyway. Now, back to the puzzle ...

Is what they were doing immediately before boarding the bus relevant? yes Did they arrive at the bus stop (the one where they started) together? yes

Did they sit next to each other on the bus? yes Did they converse throughout the journey? probably Did any other (leather jacketed? no) interaction take place during the journey? yes Was our heroine so engrossed with her companion that she missed her stop? no

When they left the bus, did they both walk back to our heroine's house? yes - they lived not too far from each other Did they part at the bus stop? no

Is this a true story? It was told to me as such, but it might have been an urban legend. Would it be beneficial to discover the identities of our heroine and her friend? You would not know who they were.
Tony (E20)
Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They spent some time together before boarding the bus? Hours? Days? Weeks? longer?

Before boarding the bus had they been: On a date? at work? visiting relatives? shopping?

How long was the bus journey: less than a mile? less than five miles? less than fifty miles?

Was anyone else on the bus involved in the interaction which took place? Were they involved in an argument?

Was it a positive decision to stay on the bus past their bus-stop?
If so, when was the decision taken: before boarding the bus? before reaching their home stop? as they went past their stop? just before getting off? And who made the decision: our heroine? her companion? joint? someone else?
If not, then when did they realise that they were going to miss/had missed their stop: before boarding? before their home stop? as they went past their home stop?just before getting off?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They spent some time together before boarding the bus? yes Hours? this Days? Weeks? longer?

Before boarding the bus had they been: On a date? this at work? visiting relatives? shopping?

How long was the bus journey: less than a mile? probably not less than five miles? maybe less than fifty miles? yes

Was anyone else on the bus involved in the interaction which took place? no Were they involved in an argument? yesish

Was it a positive decision to stay on the bus past their bus-stop? if by "positive" you mean "conscious" (as one might gather from your next questions) then yes
If so, when was the decision taken: before boarding the bus? before reaching their home stop? as they went past their stop? this just before getting off? And who made the decision: our heroine? her companion? this joint? someone else?
If not, then when did they realise that they were going to miss/had missed their stop: before boarding? before their home stop? as they went past their home stop?just before getting off?
Tony (E20)
Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I meant "positive", but "conscious" is just as informative. Thanks

They were returning from a date. Are there any relevant details about the date which we need to explore (location, duration,...)?

They were on a standard, ordinary bus? and they had some kind of disagreement? and as they passed their regular bus-stop, our heroine's companion decided they were not going to get off?
I might need to consider how to square that with

Quote:

"If the other relevant person were not in the picture, would she have disembarked at the stop nearest her house? no"




Did you mean that if the companion was not in the picture, our heroine wouldn't have been on the bus in the first place, and so couldn't have disembarked? or some other interpretation?

Whose decision was it to eventually leave the bus: our heroine? her companion? joint? other? had the bus reached its terminus?

Long shot: Was this a situation where neither of them wanted to make the first move, and each was waiting for the other to give in?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they just want to prolong their time together?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They were returning from a date. Are there any relevant details about the date which we need to explore (location, duration,...)? yes

They were on a standard, ordinary bus? yes and they had some kind of disagreement? yes and as they passed their regular bus-stop, our heroine's companion decided they were not going to get off? yes
I might need to consider how to square that with


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
"If the other relevant person were not in the picture, would she have disembarked at the stop nearest her house? no"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Did you mean that if the companion was not in the picture, our heroine wouldn't have been on the bus in the first place, and so couldn't have disembarked? yes or some other interpretation?

Whose decision was it to eventually leave the bus: our heroine? her companion? joint? other? had the bus reached its terminus? this

Long shot: Was this a situation where neither of them wanted to make the first move, and each was waiting for the other to give in? no

By Lynne (Lynne) on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 04:57 pm:


Did they just want to prolong their time together? no
Tony (E20)
Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has our heroine travelled on this bus route previously? regularly? Had she travelled on any bus previously? regularly? Was she aware of the position of the bus stops in relation to her house?

Had her companion travelled on this bus route previously? regularly? Had the companion travelled on any bus previously? regularly? Was the companion aware of the position of the bus stops in relation to our heroine's house?


Did they use a bus to go to the date?

Did their disagreement relate to bus travel in any way (other than it occurred on a bus)?

Did they leave the bus because it had reached the terminus?

Is it likely that their relationship would continue following the events of the puzzle?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has our heroine travelled on this bus route previously? irrel regularly? probably not Had she travelled on any bus previously? irrel regularly? irrel Was she aware of the position of the bus stops in relation to her house? yes

Had her companion travelled on this bus route previously? irrel regularly? no Had the companion travelled on any bus previously? irrel regularly? irrel Was the companion aware of the position of the bus stops in relation to our heroine's house? yes


Did they use a bus to go to the date? yes

Did their disagreement relate to bus travel in any way (other than it occurred on a bus)? no, FA

Did they leave the bus because it had reached the terminus? yes

Is it likely that their relationship would continue following the events of the puzzle? irrel
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You mentioned an aspect of the date was relevant - was it simply the fact that they took a bus on the date?

Was the date indoors? Outdoors? A meal? A movie? A physical activity? Does it matter?

Were either of the two angry on the bus? Were they discussing their disagreement? Arguing? Would it be considered playful?

And neither of them is a bus driver, correct?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You mentioned an aspect of the date was relevant - was it simply the fact that they took a bus on the date? no

Was the date indoors? this Outdoors? A meal? A movie? yope A physical activity? Does it matter? very much so

Were either of the two angry on the bus? yes Were they discussing their disagreement? not really Arguing? no Would it be considered playful? not really

And neither of them is a bus driver, correct? well, neither of them was driving this bus on this occasion
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they angry with each other? Or with an annoying situation? Were they angry about something that happened on the bus?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they angry with each other? somewhat Or with an annoying situation? but a bit of this as well Were they angry about something that happened on the bus? OH was probably angry at her companion for preventing her from getting off the bus at her stop. But this was not the original source of the disagreement.
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is money involved? Lack of money? Yope to movie - did they see one? Or did they plan to see one but didn't go?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they see a play? Other production on a stage? Stand-up comedy? Concert? Was it live entertainment?
OH was prevented from leaving the bus by this fella - physically? Because they were in the middle of something?
Were the two physically connected in any way? Did something necessitate that they leave the bus together?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 04:23 pm:


Is money involved? Lack of money? neither Yope to movie - did they see one? yope Or did they plan to see one but didn't go? no

By (Stuccosalt) on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 04:40 pm:


Did they see a play? Other production on a stage? Stand-up comedy? Concert? Was it live entertainment? no to all
OH was prevented from leaving the bus by this fella - physically? Because they were in the middle of something? because he said something to the effect of "We're not getting off the bus here."
Were the two physically connected in any way? no Did something necessitate that they leave the bus together? no
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they see more than one movie?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they see more than one movie? yes indeed
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 6:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they arguing about one of the movies? Both of the movies? A movie star?
"She was in that film, you know, the one which blah blah" "No she wasn't" type argument? (Easily settled on imdb)
Were either of them characters in one of the films?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they arguing about one of the movies? yesish Both of the movies? no A movie star? no
"She was in that film, you know, the one which blah blah" "No she wasn't" type argument? no, and this took place in the days before imdb was widely available (Easily settled on imdb)
Were either of them characters in one of the films? no
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOOOOOPERRRR ALLLERRRRT

Is money involved? this should be yope
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did one of think that going to two films was a waste of money?
That one film was a waste, but they disagreed as to which?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did one of think that going to two films was a waste of money? no
That one film was a waste, but they disagreed as to which? no
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 11:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did one of them go to the wrong movie?
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 7:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they arguing about some fact? Was it based on opinion? Did the argument involve gender differences (e.g. did he make a sexist remark)?
Was he/she trying to prove something by not getting off at the right stop/ not getting off at all? Was the argument finally settled?

I could do much better with a recap, if you'd be kind enough...
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 11:49 pm:


Did one of them go to the wrong movie? no

By Arjun (Jun) on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 07:29 am:


Were they arguing about some fact? please rephrase Was it based on opinion? somewhat Did the argument involve gender differences (e.g. did he make a sexist remark)? no
Was he/she trying to prove something by not getting off at the right stop/ not getting off at all? yes Was the argument finally settled? irrel

I could do much better with a recap, if you'd be kind enough...

************ RECAP ************

A young woman is on a date with a companion that we can take to be male, now that I've made my point. They travel to a movie theater on a bus, and see two movies, and get on a bus to go home. At some point over the course of the evening, they get into an argument over something to do with the movies, and yopeishly to do with money. As a result of this, on the bus ride home, Our Heroine's companion prevents the two of them from getting off the bus at their stop (the same stop for both of them, to make matters easier). Instead, they ride the bus to the end of its route, and then walk back.
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This money: was it expended in the course of the evening? does it belong to one of them? both of them? anyone at all? was it the bus fare?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This money: was it expended in the course of the evening? yes does it belong to one of them? not anymore both of them? ditto anyone at all? yes was it the bus fare? yope
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it both their bus fares? or the bus fares and something else? the cost of the cinema tickets? of something they ate? drank?
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the recap
" Were they arguing about some fact? please rephrase "

Were they arguing about something that could be settled by looking for more information? Has the argument got to do with paying a flat fee for service regardless of how much of it you use? (e.g. paying a bus fare of one rupee for any amount of travel within a city or a dollar ticket to watch any number of movies)
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By David Burn (Woubit) on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 05:36 pm:

Was it both their bus fares? this or the bus fares and something else? the cost of the cinema tickets? and this of something they ate? drank?

By Arjun (Jun) on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 09:08 pm:

Thanks for the recap
" Were they arguing about some fact? please rephrase "

Were they arguing about something that could be settled by looking for more information? no Has the argument got to do with paying a flat fee for service regardless of how much of it you use? this idea is definitely relevant (e.g. paying a bus fare of one rupee for any amount of travel within a city or a dollar ticket to watch any number of movies)
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they watch two films simply because there was a money saving deal to be had, rather than the fact that they wanted to watch those particular films?
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 2:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he (or she - which?) think that it was unfair to people who did not use such a service to the full? Did she insist on watching more movies than one because otherwise it would not be worth the money? And hence, did he retaliate by insisting that they use the whole bus ticket's worth by travelling to the terminus?
Dref (Dref)
Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 7:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they each pay for their own movie tickets? own bus tickets? or did one person buy everything?

Did they watch the first movie but then sneak into the second?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK. Our Heroine and her friend go to the movies right? But for some reason, the Cinema they go to is perhaps a smallish, arthouse cinema that plays more than one movie after each other, all on the one ticket. She decides that after the first movie, they will sit and watch the second, "because it is taking full advantage of the ticket". He, on the other hand, does not think this is the idea (and probably doesn't want to watch the second movie anyway). Thus, to prove his point, he prevents them from getting off at the bus station, "to take full advantage of the fare."

Is this the idea, and if it is, is there anything left to figure out?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jun and Zenith have very much the right idea, so...

******** SPOILER ********

Supposedly a true story.

A young man was preparing to go on his first date. Not having a car (perhaps because he was not old enough to drive), and not living in a city with a proper efficient public transportation system, he made the considerable effort to work out the best way to get from his date's home to the cinema and back again on the bus.

The early part of the evening went well and according to plan. But this was back in the day (or so I'm told) when "double features" at the cinema were common, and Our Heroine wanted to stay to watch the second film. This posed a problem for Our Hero, because he had only memorised the bus timetables for getting home after the first film - but he couldn't let his companion know about this, because he wanted his mastery of small-time public transportation to seem effortless. So all he could say was, "No, I've read reviews of that film, and it sounds like it's going to be really bad." Our Heroine replied, "But you never know - it might be good. After all, we paid for the double feature, so we might as well see both films."

Unable to counter that argument, Our Hero conceded defeat. They sat through the second film (which was in fact really bad), and then Our Hero had to look like a fool (or so he thought) running around asking directions for the best bus to take home at that hour. As the bus neared Our Heroine's stop, she reached up to pull the cord to signal the bus to stop, but Our Hero pulled her hand away. "What are you doing?" she asked. "We paid for the whole bus ride, so we might as well take it," he said.

They rode the bus to the end of the line in silence. They walked the several miles back to Our Heroine's home in silence. They never spoke to each other again. The end.

Apologies to all who participated, well done Jun and Zenith.

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