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Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Leta asked Ferdinand to move her garbage cans from the back of her house to the front on garbage pick-up day, but the cans were empty. How come??
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Leta incapable of moving the cans herself? Didn't she want to do it herself? Did she specifically want Ferdinand to do it? Could she have asked someone else to do it, and it would achieve the same effect?

Did Ferdinand actually move the cans? Did Leta know that the cans were empty?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did whe want the garbage men to take the cans away? Was she trying to prove some point?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

y Johanna (Buzzard) on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 05:08 pm:


Was Leta incapable of moving the cans herself? no Didn't she want to do it herself? yope Did she
specifically want Ferdinand to do it? yope Could she have asked someone else to do it, and it
would achieve the same effect? yes

Did Ferdinand actually move the cans? yes Did Leta know that the cans were empty? yes

By David Burn (Woubit) on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 05:25 pm:


Did whe want the garbage men to take the cans away? no Was she trying to prove some point? yope

Hi Buzzard & Woubit!! Why not direct those clever minds at my puzzle "You Never Know When You'll Insult Someone"), which has been around for sooo loong. N.B.: Woubit, Did you ever read the monster-paper of mine that you requested??}
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ferdinand know that the cans were empty before he moved them? after he moved them?

Could Leta have moved the cans herself, and it would have had the same effect?

And I've thought really hard about your other puzzle, and I haven't a clue. Sorry.
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the garbage men previously caused her offence?

And I have not thought as hard as Buzzard about your other puzzle, because I am not as smart as she is. But I haven't a clue either. I did, however, read the monster paper - thank you :)
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she trying to make a point about something?
Had she recycled everything that week?
Had she in fact created any trash which would normally have been in the cans?
Did she want Ferdinand to look a bit of a fool?
Was he working for her? Just a friend? Husband?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

y Johanna (Buzzard) on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 05:46 pm:


Did Ferdinand know that the cans were empty before he moved them? no after he moved them? yes

Could Leta have moved the cans herself, and it would have had the same effect? no

And I've thought really hard about your other puzzle, and I haven't a clue. Sorry. I'm about to post a hint

By David Burn (Woubit) on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 05:51 pm:


Had the garbage men previously caused her offence? no

And I have not thought as hard as Buzzard about your other puzzle, because I am not as smart as
she is. But I haven't a clue either. I did, however, read the monster paper - thank you Comments & criticisms would be welcome, especially since I will have opportunities to make changes before publication
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

y Lynne (Lynne) on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 06:01 pm:


Was she trying to make a point about something? yope
Had she recycled everything that week? irrel
Had she in fact created any trash which would normally have been in the cans? irrel
Did she want Ferdinand to look a bit of a fool? no
Was he working for her?yope Just a friend? no Husband? no
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Leta have a bit of a thing for Ferdinand? Did Ferdinand know Leta was capable of moving them herself? Did she want to give a certain impression to him? to her neighbours?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Sam Greene (Pandora) on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 06:40 pm:


Did Leta have a bit of a thing for Ferdinand? no Did Ferdinand know Leta was capable of moving
them herself? yope Did she want to give a certain impression to him? yes to her neighbours? no
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she want him to think she was lazy? in need of sympathy? Did she get him to do this for her own benefit? for his? did she pay him? return him a favour?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Sam Greene (Pandora) on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 07:03 pm:


Did she want him to think she was lazy? no in need of sympathy? possibly Did she get him to do this for
her own benefit? no for his? yes did she pay him? yesish return him a favour? yesish
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ferdinand have learning difficulties?
Was she helping him to return to the world of work after an hiatus?
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she trying to make him feel useful? Is there something relevant about Ferdinand that needs to be established? Are either of their professions relevant?

Is there anyone else relevant to this puzzle?
Did she pay him with money? something else? did she give him something in return? did she do something for him in return
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 07:13 pm:


Did Ferdinand have learning difficulties?no
Was she helping him to return to the world of work after an hiatus? no
Chuck Raby (Wildcard)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ferdinand have physical disability?
SOme kind of degenerate disease? Downs syndrome?
Ferdinand have some kind paralyzed? use some kind of prothetic? otherwise less than a fully able-bodied adult?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Chuck Raby (Wildcard) on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 07:47 pm:


Ferdinand have physical disability? no
SOme kind of degenerate disease? no Downs syndrome? no
Ferdinand have some kind paralyzed? no use some kind of prothetic? no otherwise less than a fully
able-bodied adult? no
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Sam Greene (Pandora) on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 07:14 pm: :)
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Ferdinand in fact an adult? Is Leta Ferdinand's mother?

Was there anything relevant hidden behind or under the trash cans?
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did anyone else need to witness Ferdinand's moving of the bins for Leta to accomplish her objective?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 10:48 pm:


Is Ferdinand in fact an adult? no Is Leta Ferdinand's mother? no

Was there anything relevant hidden behind or under the trash cans? no

By (Stuccosalt) on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 01:12 pm:


Did anyone else need to witness Ferdinand's moving of the bins for Leta to accomplish her
objective? no
Sam Greene (Pandora)
Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she trying to make him feel useful? Is there something relevant about Ferdinand that needs to be established? Are either of their professions relevant?

Is there anyone else relevant to this puzzle?
Did she pay him with money? something else? did she give him something in return? did she do something for him in return? Was she trying to teach him something?
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would another chore have fulfilled her objectives? or did it need to be putting the garbage cans out?

was her objective:
to do something nice for F? to make something good happen to F? to stop something bad happening to F? to give F some sort of experience?

was her objective altruistic? selfish? silly? stupid? clever?


has F done anything relevant prior to the moving of the cans? said anything relevant? has anyone else said anything relevant?

are F's parents relevant? his school?

is it relevant what day of the week this happens (other than being pick up day)?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Sam Greene (Pandora) on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 10:04 pm:


Was she trying to make him feel useful? no Is there something relevant about Ferdinand that
needs to be established? yes Are either of their professions relevant? yope

Is there anyone else relevant to this puzzle? yes
Did she pay him with money? no something else? yes did she give him something in return? yes did she
do something for him in return? see previous answer Was she trying to teach him something? no

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 10:16 pm:


would another chore have fulfilled her objectives? yes or did it need to be putting the garbage
cans out? no

was her objective:
to do something nice for F? yes to make something good happen to F? see previous answer to stop something bad
happening to F? see previous answer but one to give F some sort of experience? yes

was her objective altruistic? yes selfish? no silly? no stupid? no clever? no
Chuck Raby (Wildcard)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was F showing off for someone as a result of doing this task?
Some girl watching F and think he is strong or all grown up or otherwise attractive because he completed this task?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 6:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Chuck Raby (Wildcard) on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 06:27 pm:


Was F showing off for someone as a result of doing this task? no
Some girl watching F and think he is strong or all grown up or otherwise attractive because he
completed this task? no
Chuck Raby (Wildcard)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

F demonstrating his ability somehow?
Is F aware of the benefit he is receiving?
Relevant where he put the cans exactly?
Other person involved...is a relative?
Friend?
Stranger?
More than one other person relevant?
F surprized by anyone during this process?
F asked to go out front so he will encounter someone? more than one person?
Tony (E20)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm a bit confused by some earlier answers:

"otherwise less than a fully
able-bodied adult? no"
...
"Is Ferdinand in fact an adult? no"


so can I just check ...

Is Ferdinand human?
Male/Female?
Age: Less than 10? 10-20? 20-30? etc
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

y Chuck Raby (Wildcard) on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 07:02 pm:


F demonstrating his ability somehow? no
Is F aware of the benefit he is receiving? yes
Relevant where he put the cans exactly? no
Other person involved...is a relative? yes
Friend?see previous answer
Stranger? no
More than one other person relevant? no
F surprized by anyone during this process? no
F asked to go out front so he will encounter someone? no more than one person? no
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm a bit confused by some earlier answers:

"otherwise less than a fully
able-bodied adult? no"
...
"Is Ferdinand in fact an adult? no"

so can I just check ...

Is Ferdinand human? yes
Male/Female? male
Age: Less than 10? no 10-20? yes 20-30? no etc
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

don't forget the rest of my earlier questions :(

did she give him something tangible? an object? some food?

did she manufacture a chore in order to make it possible for her to give him what she did?
did she do this because she thought he needed something she had? or wanted something particular?

did she want to give him something but wanted him to learn that 'you don't get something for nothing' so made him work for it? was she trying not to spoil him?

is the attitude of one of his parents relevant here? did his parents think he should work for things he got? so she felt she had to make him do something?
Chuck Raby (Wildcard)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The other person involved is F's mother? father? sister? brother? grandmother? grandfather?
Tony (E20)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the cans been full earlier in the day?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

has F done anything relevant prior to the moving of the cans? no said anything relevant? no has
anyone else said anything relevant? yes

are F's parents relevant? yes his school? no

is it relevant what day of the week this happens (other than being pick up day)? no
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 09:13 pm:


don't forget the rest of my earlier questions done

did she give him something tangible? yes an object? no some food? yes

did she manufacture a chore in order to make it possible for her to give him what she did? yes
did she do this because she thought he needed something she had? yes or wanted something
particular? yes

did she want to give him something but wanted him to learn that 'you don't get something for
nothing' so made him work for it? no was she trying not to spoil him? no

is the attitude of one of his parents relevant here? yes did his parents think he should work for
things he got?yope so she felt she had to make him do something?yesish

By Chuck Raby (Wildcard) on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 09:25 pm:


The other person involved is F's mother? yes father? sister? brother? grandmother? grandfather?
Chuck Raby (Wildcard)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did F's mother observe his behavior?
Hear about it later?
The type of food item F received, is it relevant?
Did he, in fact, receive the food item? Relevant?
Does Leta fancy the boy in any other way than as a helper to accomplish chores like this?
Does F do chores like this for anyone else? relevant?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Chuck Raby (Wildcard) on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 10:08 pm:


Did F's mother observe his behavior? no
Hear about it later? yes
The type of food item F received, is it relevant? yes
Did he, in fact, receive the food item? yes Relevant? yes
Does Leta fancy the boy in any other way than as a helper to accomplish chores like this? no
Does F do chores like this for anyone else? no relevant? yes
Chuck Raby (Wildcard)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the food item F received only for him?
To feed his family?
The food item is fruit? veggie? meat? confection? bread? cereal? other grain? soup? cheese? beverage? milk? other dairy product? crackers? cookies? noodles? rice? beans? magic beans?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Chuck Raby (Wildcard) on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 10:51 pm:


Is the food item F received only for him? yope
To feed his family? yope
The food item is fruit? no veggie? yes meat? yes confection? yes bread? yes cereal? no other grain? no soup? no cheese? no
beverage? yes milk? yes other dairy product? no crackers? nocookies? no noodles? no rice? yes beans? no magic beans? no.(huh?)
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so does she give him a meal? does she do this because she thinks he needs food? and she doesn't want his mother to think that she is giving him charity? or that he is begging? so she manufactures a job for him to 'earn' the meal?

is the situation this.. Leta knows of a very poor family with at least one child, Ferdinand, who doesn't really get enough to eat. But she knows that his mother would be upset or offended at the thought of any of them receiving charity? So Leta asks the lad to do a chore for her, and gives him nutritious food in return?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 02:45 pm:


so does she give him a meal? yes does she do this because she thinks he needs food? yes and she
doesn't want his mother to think that she is giving him charity? yes or that he is begging? yes so she
manufactures a job for him to 'earn' the meal? yes

is the situation this.. Leta knows of a very poor family with at least one child, Ferdinand, who
doesn't really get enough to eat. But she knows that his mother would be upset or offended
at the thought of any of them receiving charity? yes So Leta asks the lad to do a chore for her,
and gives him nutritious food in return? yes

************* SPOILER **********
See above. Clever Hannah has described the situation perfectly.(It comes from the short story "The Sky is Gray" by Ernest Gaines.) Please also see my new, MUCH HARDER puzzle at the bottom of the page.

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