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Archive through May 26, 2005Torgeir Apeland22 5-26-05  12:59 pm
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Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Torgeir Apeland (Abc) on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 12:59 pm:


Did Piyup have good reason (apart from wishful thinking) to believe that Dagros was an elk? no
Is Dagros' owner involved in this? involved in the puzzle - yes, involved in the non-existent good reason - no
Was Dagros in a place one would not expect a cow to be? no
Is a fence relevant? no
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, does XQ2.. eh, I mean Piyup just fire away hoping that Dagros is an elk?
Is Coff really necessary for this story?
Is there any good reason for Piyup NOT to believe that Dagros is an elk?
Does Piyup at all consider the possibility that Dagros might be something other than an elk?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Torgeir Apeland (Abc) on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 01:36 pm:


So, does XQ2.. eh, I mean Piyup just fire away hoping that Dagros is an elk? yes
Is Coff really necessary for this story? no
Is there any good reason for Piyup NOT to believe that Dagros is an elk? yes
Does Piyup at all consider the possibility that Dagros might be something other than an elk? obviously not
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The good reason - does it have to do with the way Dagros herself looks?
Something about her environment?
Is she being milked by someone when Piyup spots her?
Is it to do with Dagros' owner?
Something about sound or smell?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Torgeir Apeland (Abc) on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 02:10 pm:


The good reason - does it have to do with the way Dagros herself looks? yes
Something about her environment? noish
Is she being milked by someone when Piyup spots her? no
Is it to do with Dagros' owner? yes
Something about sound or smell? no
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has the cow been disguised for some reason?
Does it look like a typical bovine?
Was Piyup hunting for sport? Trying to kill an animal that someone owned? For revenge? Spite?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Ixoye724 (Ixoye724) on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 03:27 pm:

Has the cow been disguised for some reason? no, but...
Does it look like a typical bovine? yes
Was Piyup hunting for sport? yes, and for meat (most elk hunters think of both these reasons) Trying to kill an animal that someone owned? no For revenge? Spite? so no to both
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Dagros in a situation where it would be more obvious than usual that she was a cow rather than an elk?
Was Ocac close to Dagros before the shot? After the shot?
We haven't named Dagros' owner yet, have we?
Don't you think it's time to do so?
Would "Dos" be OK? (I was thinking about "Windows 2000 Advanced Server", but felt that that would be a bit too cumbersome)
Could Piyup see Dos at any time?
Before he shot Dagros? During the shot? After?
Was Dos close to Dagros at any time relevant to the puzzle? Before the shot? During the shot? After?
Did Dos and Piyup talk with each other?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 6:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOPER ALERT: Another cow is indeed relevant to the puzzle.

By Torgeir Apeland (Abc) on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 08:10 pm:


Was Dagros in a situation where it would be more obvious than usual that she was a cow rather than an elk? yes
Was Ocac close to Dagros before the shot? yes After the shot? presumably
We haven't named Dagros' owner yet, have we? Yes we have - Ocac, you know. So I'll jump the rest of these questions, although I appreciate your choice out of two names.
Don't you think it's time to do so?
Would "Dos" be OK? (I was thinking about "Windows 2000 Advanced Server", but felt that that would be a bit too cumbersome)
Could Piyup see Dos at any time?
Before he shot Dagros? During the shot? After?
Was Dos close to Dagros at any time relevant to the puzzle? Before the shot? During the shot? After?
Did Dos and Piyup talk with each other?
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Ocac (or someone else) milking Dagros?

The other cow.. a cow? Not a bull? Or a calf?

The other cow also with a brown colour? Grazing in the same field as Dagros?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Einar Berg (Grainbeer) on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 10:40 am:


Was Ocac (or someone else) milking Dagros? no

The other cow.. a cow? yes Not a bull? Or a calf? no

The other cow also with a brown colour? yes Grazing in the same field as Dagros? possibly
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

or rather:

Grazing in the same field as Dagros? possibly, but...
Einar Berg (Grainbeer)
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I´ll just examine another aspect: I can understand that Piyup felt ashamed because of his mistake. But what about the anger? Had he any good reason to feel angry, not solely ashamed? Angry only because Coff was laughing? Or for some other justifiable reason?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Einar Berg (Grainbeer) on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 11:42 am:


I´ll just examine another aspect: I can understand that Piyup felt ashamed because of his mistake. But what about the anger? Had he any good reason to feel angry, not solely ashamed? I'd say he felt so ashamed he was angry. And this was not only because of his mistake, but also... Angry only because Coff was laughing? ...well, it didn't make things better, but... Or for some other justifiable reason? ...there was this also
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Coff done? or said? something that led to Piyup shooting Dagros? That contributed to Piyup shooting Dagros?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 04:31 pm:

Had Coff done? or said? something that led to Piyup shooting Dagros? That contributed to Piyup shooting Dagros? no to both
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I got really messed up here - I thought Ocac was the elk. And now I realise I haven't even asked whether an elk is at all relevant to the puzzle. Is it?
Can we call the other cow Dos, then?
Has Piyup committed the same mistake once before?
Perhaps killing Dos?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Torgeir Apeland (Abc) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 10:36 am:


OK, I got really messed up here - I thought Ocac was the elk. And now I realise I haven't even asked whether an elk is at all relevant to the puzzle. Is it? it is, but only insofar as it was what Piyup meant to shoot
Can we call the other cow Dos, then? sure
Has Piyup committed the same mistake once before? possibly
Perhaps killing Dos? if so, yes
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Dos dead?
If so, relevant when it happened?
Long time before Dagros died?
Relevant how Dos died? (if she did)
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Torgeir Apeland (Abc) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 02:01 pm:


Is Dos dead? yes
If so, relevant when it happened? yes
Long time before Dagros died? please define
Relevant how Dos died? (if she did) yes
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Piyup ashamed because this is the second time that he's mistaken a cow for an elk? The second time he's done it in this hunting season? or the second hunting season in a row that he's done it?

Is Coff relevant in any way other than that he's there to see that Piyup has shot another cow? Which Piyup probably would rather not have anybody know?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, time between Dos' and Dagros' death...
More than 1 minute? 10 minutes? 1 hour? 5 hours?
One day? Week? Month? Year?
Was Dos shot as well?
By Piyup?
Under the same circumstances?
Is Ocac close to Dagros when Dagros is killed?
Did Ocac own Dos too?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 7:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 05:55 pm:


Is Piyup ashamed because this is the second time that he's mistaken a cow for an elk? maybe The second time he's done it in this hunting season? no or the second hunting season in a row that he's done it? if so, yes

Is Coff relevant in any way other than that he's there to see that Piyup has shot another cow? no Which Piyup probably would rather not have anybody know? correct

By Torgeir Apeland (Abc) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 06:35 pm:


So, time between Dos' and Dagros' death...
More than 1 minute? 10 minutes? 1 hour? 5 hours?
One day? Week? Month? Year? roughly one year
Was Dos shot as well? yes
By Piyup? possibly, not necessarily
Under the same circumstances? yes, with one exception, which is the pivot for the puzzle
Is Ocac close to Dagros when Dagros is killed? irrelevant
Did Ocac own Dos too? yes
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Ocac, because of the Dos incident, taken special precautions to avoid it happening again?
If I had been there at the time of the puzzle statement, would I have noticed something that would give the puzzle away?
Would I have noticed something about Dagros?
Had Ocac painted "Cow" on her, in large, red lettering?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 6:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Torgeir Apeland (Abc) on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 08:54 pm:


Had Ocac, because of the Dos incident, taken special precautions to avoid it happening again? yes
If I had been there at the time of the puzzle statement, would I have noticed something that would give the puzzle away? yes
Would I have noticed something about Dagros? yes
Had Ocac painted "Cow" on her, in large, red lettering? white, actually - spioler to follow
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

********* SPOILER ************

One of a farmer's cows was shot during the yearly elk hunting. Before the start of the hunting next year he painted COW in large white letters on his remaining cows (even larger in Swedish, KO (I believe the Norwegian word is KU)) - but still got a cow shot.

It is not documented what the hunter said. But we can assume he wasn't entirely happy.
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh... rather an abrupt ending, that. But I suppose that is because the solution wasn't what I expected. I still have that deja-vu feeling - I heard another story about elk hunters shooting cows some monthes ago, and I still can't remember it properly.

Anyway, fun puzzle with a good point! (:
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I always will remember,
'Twas a year ago November,
I went out to hunt some deer
On a morning bright and clear.
I went and shot the maximum the game laws would allow:
Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a cow.

I was in no mood to trifle,
I took down my trusty rifle
And went out to stalk my prey.
What a haul I made that day!
I tied them to my fender, and I drove them home somehow:
Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a cow.

The law was very firm, it
Took away my permit,
The worst punishment I ever endured.
It turned out there was a reason,
Cows were out of season,
And one of the hunters wasn't insured.

People ask me how I do it,
And I say "There's nothing to it,
You just stand there looking cute,
And when something moves, you shoot."
And there's ten stuffed heads in my trophy room right now:
Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a pure-bred Guernsey cow.


Tom Lehrer
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was thinking of the joke/story where the farmer, tired of having his cows murdered by careless hunters, paints his animals in black-and-white stripes so it's obvious they're not elk/deer/etc.

Sure enough, someone shoots one of his striped cows and he asks the hunter what the heck he was thinking. The response: "I thought it was a zebra!"
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or the other variant, where after painting "Cow" on all the cows, "Horse" on the horses, "Dog" on the dogs, etc. The farmer comes out one afternoon to find a hole blasted in the side of his bright green tractor, and a puzzled hunter standing there, muttering "But it -said- "Deere!"

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