| Author |
Message |
Ally McCabe (Strongplacebo)
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 7:44 pm: |       |
Would the father have murdered this child if it had been a daughter? If he has more children, is it conceivable that he would kill those too?
Is this child his firstborn? relevant?
Are the murderer's personal beliefs relevant? ie does he belong to some sort of cult?
Does he make attempt to conceal this murder? make it look like natural causes? An accident? Does the mother find out he murdered their baby? |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 10:04 pm: | |
By Ally McCabe (Strongplacebo) on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 07:44 pm:
Would the father have murdered this child if it had been a daughter? yes If he has more children, is it conceivable that he would kill those too? yes, given he killed his son. fairly irrelevant though
Is this child his firstborn? yes relevant? not really
Are the murderer's personal beliefs relevant? yope ie does he belong to some sort of cult? no
Does he make attempt to conceal this murder? yes make it look like natural causes? not so much this but... An accident? this one i thinkDoes the mother find out he murdered their baby? yes |
Vae (Vaetrus)
| | Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 11:48 pm: | |
Is Grandpa in "Hell"?
Emotional as in closure, or acceptance, with respect to emotions. Mental as in a logical rational acceptance, or intellectual knowledge or other wise gain. |
Ally McCabe (Strongplacebo)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:21 am: | |
So something about Grandpa's death leads to the child's death? Something he said on his deathbed? A prediction? A dying wish? Do you consider Grandpa a 'baddie' in this puzzle?
Does Dad misinterpret something Grandpa says?
Is Dad ashamed of his child? Disgusted? Afraid of him? Does he not want to be a dad, ever? |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 1:27 am: | |
By Vae (Vaetrus) on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 11:48 pm:
Is Grandpa in "Hell"? no
Emotional as in closure, or acceptance, with respect to emotions. Mental as in a logical rational acceptance, or intellectual knowledge or other wise gain. then the answer would be yes to emotional, and no to mental
By Ally McCabe (Strongplacebo) on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:21 am:
So something about Grandpa's death leads to the child's death? yes Something he said on his deathbed? no A prediction? no A dying wish? no Do you consider Grandpa a 'baddie' in this puzzle? no
Does Dad misinterpret something Grandpa says? no
Is Dad ashamed of his child? no Disgusted? no Afraid of him? no Does he not want to be a dad, ever? difficult to answer. it's kind of irrelevant - but having said that, he doesn't seem the paternal type! |
Tony (E20)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 10:19 am: | |
Is the era in which this is set relevant? Present day? Within the last one hundred years? Within the last one thousand years?
Any genetic diseases relevant? or genetic predispositions to certain types of behaviour?
Would the puzzle still work if any of the characters had been female? Dead grandmother rather than dead grandfather? Murdering mother rather than murdering father? Murdered daughter rather than murdered son?
Did the father know it was his son he was killing?
Clarification: Man 2 will burn in hell? Man 2 = murdering father? Murdering father will burn in hell? |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:37 pm: | |
By Tony (E20) on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 10:19 am:
Is the era in which this is set relevant? no, it's not strictly relevantPresent day? Within the last one hundred years? Within the last one thousand years? let's say for the sake of the detail that it could have happened any time in the last 100 years
Any genetic diseases relevant? or genetic predispositions to certain types of behaviour? no to both
Would the puzzle still work if any of the characters had been female? yes Dead grandmother rather than dead grandfather? this one in particular Murdering mother rather than murdering father? yes, this would work tooMurdered daughter rather than murdered son? yes, it could have been either
Did the father know it was his son he was killing? he did
Clarification: Man 2 will burn in hell? well, it's up for interpretation - not wishing to offend any believers. "Man 2 will burn in hell" is a statement that somebody made when closure was brought to this situation. Just to save the question, the person making this remark is the murderer's father in law. I added the statement as a clue that something was untowards, rather than just saying 'A Man Dies. A Child Dies.'Man 2 = murdering father? yesMurdering father will burn in hell? see above |
Ally McCabe (Strongplacebo)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 8:44 pm: | |
Did Dad plan to deliberately father a child and kill it? Would he have been equally satisfied if he had never had children?
Relevant where the murder took place? Relevant how soon after the birth? |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 10:18 pm: | |
By Ally McCabe (Strongplacebo) on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 08:44 pm:
Did Dad plan to deliberately father a child and kill it? YES!!!Would he have been equally satisfied if he had never had children? no
Relevant where the murder took place? no Relevant how soon after the birth? no
Can you figure out why, and how it is linked to his own father's death? |
Tony (E20)
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 9:00 am: | |
Are the murderering father's religious beliefs relevant?
Does he believe in reincarnation?
Does he belive in offering sacrifices? |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 9:38 pm: | |
By Tony (E20) on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 09:00 am:
Are the murderering father's religious beliefs relevant?
Does he believe in reincarnation?
Does he belive in offering sacrifices? no to all, sorry. good ideas though |
Vae (Vaetrus)
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:17 pm: | |
Did Grandpa leave a directive? for father to kill all his offsprings? |
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 8:14 pm: | |
is what he gains personal satisfaction? revenge? |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 6:05 pm: | |
By Vae (Vaetrus) on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:17 pm:
Did Grandpa leave a directive? for father to kill all his offsprings? no
By Jennifer (Tigger32382) on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 08:14 pm:
is what he gains personal satisfaction? yesrevenge? yes |
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 6:09 pm: | |
Does this have anything to do with greek mythology? Sounds kinda like Zeus' father who swallowed all his children to keep from being overthrown.
Is the man trying to seek revenge on his dad? On the mother? Trying to prevent the grampa from having immortality through his kids? |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 6:12 pm: | |
By Lisa (Dlcygnet) on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 06:09 pm:
Does this have anything to do with greek mythology? noSounds kinda like Zeus' father who swallowed all his children to keep from being overthrown.
Is the man trying to seek revenge on his dad? no On the mother? yes, this one Trying to prevent the grampa from having immortality through his kids? no
what did she do that was so bad...? |
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 6:15 pm: | |
Did she kill his father?
Do something bad to his father that made the dad ask as a dying wish for her to be made to suffer horribly? |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 6:19 pm: | |
By Lisa (Dlcygnet) on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 06:15 pm:
Did she kill his father? no
Do something bad to his father that made the dad ask as a dying wish for her to be made to suffer horribly? no |
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 7:18 pm: | |
did she not show the proper remorse at his death? did she do something evil regarding the inheritance? |
Ally McCabe (Strongplacebo)
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 8:50 pm: | |
Did she have an affair with Grandpa? Which he confessed to before he died? Or maybe he was with her when he died, thus incriminating him (and her)? |
Vae (Vaetrus)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 2:03 am: | |
Is she his biological mother? |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 8:47 am: | |
By Jennifer (Tigger32382) on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 07:18 pm:
did she not show the proper remorse at his death? no she didn't, great question.did she do something evil regarding the inheritance? nothing evil
By Ally McCabe (Strongplacebo) on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 08:50 pm:
Did she have an affair with Grandpa? Which he confessed to before he died? Or maybe he was with her when he died, thus incriminating him (and her)? none of this
By Vae (Vaetrus) on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 02:03 am:
Is she his biological mother?
I'm not sure which 'he' you mean. I presume you're asking whether the woman was the child's biological mother - yes, she was
we're close to a $poiler here |
Vae (Vaetrus)
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 12:23 pm: | |
Actually, I meant the Father's. Was Mother actually Father's Mother? So, in essence, Grandma? Relevant? |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 7:15 pm: | |
By Vae (Vaetrus) on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 12:23 pm:
Actually, I meant the Father's. Was Mother actually Father's Mother? So, in essence, Grandma? Relevant?
no, nothing along these lines. |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 7:24 pm: | |
*********SPOILER**********
BORN TO DIE
FRANKLIN, IN — On Father's Day, Amy Shanabarger found her chubby-cheeked infant son, Tyler, face-down and dead in his crib.
Two days later — just hours after the tot's funeral — Ronald L. Shanabarger told his wife he'd killed their son. The next day he gave police a confession saying that not only did he kill the boy, he planned the crime even before the child was conceived as a way of exacting revenge against his wife.
The father had planned the revenge killing even before the child was conceived.
Tyler didn't die of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome as the coroner had ruled, Shanabarger said. He confessed to suffocating the 7-month-old with plastic wrap.
He said it was revenge because Amy, before they were married, had refused to cut short a vacation trip to comfort him when his father died in 1996.
"Shanabarger said he planned to make Amy feel the way he did when his father died. He married her, got her pregnant, allowed time for her to bond with the child, and then took his [boy's] life," according to an affidavit prosecutors filed to support a murder charge.
He married her, got her pregnant, allowed her to bond with the child, then took the boy's life.
Shanabarger said in his confession that on the evening of June 19, he wrapped plastic wrap around his son's head and face, then left the boy's nursery to get something to eat and brush his teeth.
Twenty minutes later, he said, he returned, removed the plastic and placed Tyler face down in the crib before he went off to bed.
He'd long resented his fiance's refusal to cut short a cruise after his father died.
Since then, he's confessed at least three times, Police Chief Harry Furrer said in an interview Sunday. Each time, the story has been the same — that he hatched his plan because he was enraged by his then-girlfriend's refusal to cut short a cruise and return home after his father's death in October 1996.
Neil S. Kaye, a forensic psychiatrist who specializes in investigating infanticide cases committed by fathers, said he's never heard of a similar crime.
A jury convicted Shanabarger May 8, 2002 of killing his son. Shanabarger muttered, "I'm just shocked. I'm just shocked," as the verdict was read.
On June 13 Shanabarger was sentenced to 49 years in prison. Shanabarger will now begin a stay in state prison that will last at least 23 years before he is eligible for parole. The three years he has spent in the Johnson County Jail will count toward his sentence.
Amy Parsons, mother of the slain baby, shared her father's shock that Special Judge Raymond Kickbush did not sentence Shanabarger to life in prison without parole.
The judge based his decision on Shanabarger's lack of prior convictions, his diminished mental ability and the jury's indecision. He noted that without Shanabarger's confessions, the prosecution might not have been able to prove its case.
The prosecution cited nine confessions and dozens of letters Shanabarger wrote acknowledging his guilt.
The defense contended Tyler was a victim of sudden infant death syndrome, not homicide; raised claims that Shanabarger was mentally retarded; and suggested that Parsons engineered the killing and the confessions to cash in on a $100,000 life insurance policy on the baby.
"Happy Father's Day," Amy Parsons told her ex-husband through angry tears as he left the courtroom.
As the blank-faced Shanabarger left the courtroom, Amy's father, Robert Parsons, said, "Ronald, you'll burn in hell for this." |
The Undertaker (Undertaker)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 2:15 pm: | |
Oops! Forgot to acknowledge that I changed the puzzle slightly so that the murdered child was male. |
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page