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Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - December 2005 » [Nimue] Where the queen goes alone « Previous Next »

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Archive through November 11, 2005Felicia Nimue Ackerm22 11-11-05  10:29 pm
Archive through November 15, 2005Ixoye72422 11-15-05  3:35 pm
Archive through November 16, 2005Lewis Zeiters22 11-16-05  10:36 pm
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Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was she crying at the time? or about to?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer (Tigger32382) on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 09:20 pm:

was she crying at the time? no or about to? no

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap, please?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Ixoye724 (Ixoye724) on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 09:26 pm:

Recap, please? Add the following to the puzzle statement: Philomena & a friend (or coworker or relative) are in a car. The friend says something to Philomena. As a result, P. goes to a restaurant & pretends she needs to use the bathroom. She does nothing special while she us in the bathroom. The whole incident is rather unpleasant for Philomena.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we've come all this way and that's all we know? Geez...

Is P's inital comment spawned by something she sees? Something that just occurs to her? Something that P says? Something that P does?
Are they listening to the radio in the car? CD?
Is the time of day/night relevant?
Would things have gone the same if P had opted to run into a bank, as opposed to the restaurant?
Can P's friend witness her trip to the restroom (i.e. through a glass window across the restaurant's front)? Is this important?
Is P's friend glad that P makes this trip in and out of the restaurant? Does the friend find it funny? Does she think she's made P angry?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Ixoye724 (Ixoye724) on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 09:42 pm:

So we've come all this way and that's all we know? Geez...:O:O:O:O!!!!

Is P's inital comment spawned by something she sees?The friend made the initial comment (see above. )Spawned by something she sees? noish Something that just occurs to her? for the friend's comment--no Something that P says? ditto Something that P does? ditto
Are they listening to the radio in the car? no CD? no
Is the time of day/night relevant? no
Would things have gone the same if P had opted to run into a bank, as opposed to the restaurant? no
Can P's friend witness her trip to the restroom (i.e. through a glass window across the restaurant's front)? no Is this important? yes
Is P's friend glad that P makes this trip in and out of the restaurant? yes Does the friend find it funny? no Does she think she's made P angry? yope
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So what is important about the fact that it is a restaurant that she goes into...
the fact that there is a greeter/hostess?
the fact that food is being served/eaten?
the fact that there are waiters/waitresses?
the fact that there are chefs?
something else?

Is the incident unpleasant for P the entire time? Only when she's on the way into the restaurant? Only after talking to someone in the restaurant? Only after getting to the restroom? Only after exiting the restaurant?

Does P's friend realize why P is going into the restaurant? Is P's action based on a comment that her friend made that was not directed at P, but was more of an open observation? Or did the friend direct the comment to P so that P would stop the car and run into a restaurant?

When P exits the restaurant, does she immediately get back into the car? Does she feel relieved? Nervous? Sick? Sad? Angry? Happy? Mad at her friend? Indifferent toward her friend?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Ixoye724 (Ixoye724) on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 02:59 pm:

So what is important about the fact that it is a restaurant that she goes into...
the fact that there is a greeter/hostess? either this or waiters would be necessary
the fact that food is being served/eaten? no
the fact that there are waiters/waitresses? see above
the fact that there are chefs? no
something else? yes

Is the incident unpleasant for P the entire time?somewhat but not equally so Only when she's on the way into the restaurant? no change Only after talking to someone in the restaurant? that's when it gets worse Only after getting to the restroom? see previous answer Only after exiting the restaurant?,ditto

Does P's friend realize why P is going into the restaurant? yes Is P's action based on a comment that her friend made that was not directed at P, but was more of an open observation? yes Or did the friend direct the comment to P so that P would stop the car and run into a restaurant? no

When P exits the restaurant, does she immediately get back into the car? yope Does she feel relieved? no Nervous? no Sick? no Sad? somewhat Angry? yes Happy? no Mad at her friend? no Indifferent toward her friend? no
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

something else? yes

Ok, then is it relevant that the restaurant has many patrons inside? That it has a bar? That it has a waiting area/foyer? That it takes reservations? That someone is there to greet customers? That someone is there to seat customers?

If there had only been staff in the restaurant and no customers, would the situation have played out the same way? How about if the restaurant had been empty?

Does P actually talk to anyone in the restaurant? Or just hear a comment that someone makes? Does anyone in the restaurant talk directly to P? Talk to someone else about P, and she overhears it?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, then is it relevant that the restaurant has many patrons inside? no That it has a bar? no That it has a waiting area/foyer?no That it takes reservations? no That someone is there to greet customers? either this or the next is necessary That someone is there to seat customers?

If there had only been staff in the restaurant and no customers, would the situation have played out the same way? yes How about if the restaurant had been empty? you mean, with no staff? No, then the puzzle would not be possible

Does P actually talk to anyone in the restaurant? yes Or just hear a comment that someone makes? no Does anyone in the restaurant talk directly to P? yes Talk to someone else about P, and she overhears it? no
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they asking her if she would like to be seated? in what section she would like to be seated? how many people are in her party?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does P receive some kind of greeting from the host in the restaurant? Something like "Hello" or "Good Day"? Or does he/she say something about P? Do they refuse to serve P, or tell her that she has to leave?
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok - so P and a friend/co-worker/relative are in a car? and the friend says something to P? which makes P decide to go into the restaurant they are passing? to apparently use the toilet? or to ask to use the toilet? and P is a little upset by what the friend has said? then P goes into the restaurant? and asks the waiter where the toilet is? or if she can use the toilet? and he says something offensive to her? something which implies she cannot use the toilet? or he does not want her to? or is not 'good enough' to? or is not qualified in some way to? but she goes into the toilet anyway?
to prove a point to him? or to her friend? or to both? if to both - is it the same point?

is her race relevant? is racism an issue here? is apartheid? is she black? white?
is she disabled in any relevant way?

has her friend said something which implies she wouldn't be allowed to use the toilet in the restaurant? or couldn't? and she goes in to prove she can?
Rachel (Myth)
Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

P's friend said something that she went into the restroom to check the veracity of?
Would this have worked in any restaurant?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jennifer (Tigger32382) on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 09:50 pm:

are they asking her if she would like to be seated? no in what section she would like to be seated? no how many people are in her party? no

By Ixoye724 (Ixoye724) on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 02:55 pm:

Does P receive some kind of greeting from the host in the restaurant? irrel Something like "Hello" or "Good Day"? ,ditto Or does he/she say something about P? no Do they refuse to serve P, or tell her that she has to leave? no

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 06:50 pm:

Ok - so P and a friend/co-worker/relative are in a car? yes and the friend says something to P? yeswhich makes P decide to go into the restaurant yes they are passing? no to apparently use the toilet?yes or to ask to use the toilet? yes and P is a little upset by what the friend has said? yes--or maybe more than a little then P goes into the restaurant? yes and asks the waiter where the toilet is? see next answer or if she can use the toilet? yes and he says something offensive to her? yesish something which implies she cannot use the toilet? no or he does not want her to? no or is not 'good enough' to? or is not qualified in some way to? no but she goes into the toilet anyway? well, she does go into the toilet, but not for the reason you mention
to prove a point to him? no or to her friend? yesish or to both? see previous answers if to both - is it the same point?

is her race relevant? yes is racism an issue here? yesis apartheid? no is she black? unlikely white? probably
is she disabled in any relevant way? no

has her friend said something which implies she wouldn't be allowed to use the toilet in the restaurant?no or couldn't? no and she goes in to prove she can? yope

By Rachel (Myth) on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 07:49 pm:

P's friend said something that she went into the restroom to check the veracity of? no
Would this have worked in any restaurant? yope
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant in which country this is happening? Part of a country? City? Area in general?
Is it relevant in which time/era this is happening?
Is P of a race that would be considered a minority in the area where the restaurant is located?
Is the greeter in the restaurant of the same race as P? How about the other person in the car with P?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Ixoye724 (Ixoye724) on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 09:06 pm:

Is it relevant in which country this is happening? yes Part of a country? no City? no Area in general? no
Is it relevant in which time/era this is happening? yes
Is P of a race that would be considered a minority in the area where the restaurant is located? very unlikely
Is the greeter in the restaurant of the same race as P? very likely How about the other person in the car with P? very unlikely
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

who makes a racist remark - does P's friend? the waiter?
is P racist? is her friend? is the waiter?
is the toilet designated for use by whites only? by 'coloureds'?
does the waiter say something which implies P is racist? can the waiter see P's friend? does he make a comment about her? a racist comment? does he say P's friend can't use the toilets?

the comment that P's friend makes - does it imply that P is racist? is P angry at her friend? or angry at something that has happened to her friend?

is this a racist area? is it in the US? the south? at a time when racism was accepted as the norm?

is P trying to prove she is not racist?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 10:39 pm:

who makes a racist remark - does P's friend? no the waiter? yesish
is P racist? nois her friend? no is the waiter? yes
is the toilet designated for use by whites only? yope by 'coloureds'? no
does the waiter say something which implies P is racist? no can the waiter see P's friend? yope does he make a comment about her?yope a racist comment? yope does he say P's friend can't use the toilets? yes

the comment that P's friend makes - does it imply that P is racist? no is P angry at her friend? no or angry at something that has happened to her friend? yes

is this a racist area? yesish is it in the US? yes the south? irrel at a time when racism was accepted as the norm? no

is P trying to prove she is not racist? no
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does P's friend need to use the toilet? Does she ask P to see if it's possible to use the one in the restaurant?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 01:41 pm:

Does P's friend need to use the toilet? yes Does she ask P to see if it's possible to use the one in the restaurant? noish but very much ORT (on right gtrack)
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they both want to eat there? And asking to use the toilet was a way of easing into the racial attitude of the restaurant?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did P's friend know that there might be a problem of racisim? Was P trying to protect her from knowing the truth?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 08:35 pm:

Did they both want to eat there? no And asking to use the toilet was a way of easing into the racial attitude of the restaurant? no

By Lynne (Lynne) on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 08:41 pm:

Did P's friend know that there might be a problem of racisim? yes Was P trying to protect her from knowing the truth? no
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did P think that there wouldn't be a problem? Was she upset to find that her friend was right?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 10:15 pm:

Did P think that there wouldn't be a problem? she was unsure Was she upset to find that her friend was right? yes
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the question now seems to be - if P was told that her friend would not be allowed to use the toilet in the restaurant - why did she then go on to pretend to use it herself? surely most people would have left the restaurant in disgust at that point?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were there two separate ladies' toilets in the restaurant?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the waiter trying to deny P's friend the use of the toilet, without appearing to be racist? and then P pretended to use the toilet herself in order to demonstrate to everyone that she would be allowed to do so, and show the waiter up as a racist?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the waiter notice that P had a friend in the car with her, and that it was someone he was prejudiced against? He made it known that P could use the restroom but her friend could not?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 08:26 am:

the question now seems to be - if P was told that her friend would not be allowed to use the toilet in the restaurant - why did she then go on to pretend to use it herself? remember, they are not patrons of the restaurant. Also, find out WHO told P. her friend couldn't use the restroom. (HINT!!!) surely most people would have left the restaurant in disgust at that point? there's an even better course of action under the circumstances

By David Burn (Woubit) on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 09:40 am:

Were there two separate ladies' toilets in the restaurant? no

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 07:10 pm:

Was the waiter trying to deny P's friend the use of the toilet, without appearing to be racist? yes and then P pretended to use the toilet herself in order to demonstrate to everyone that she would be allowed to do so, and show the waiter up as a racist? yes!!!

By Ixoye724 (Ixoye724) on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 07:47 pm:

Did the waiter notice that P had a friend in the car with her, and that it was someone he was prejudiced against? no He made it known that P could use the restroom but her friend could not? yes

******SPOILER ************
Philomena & her friend Lucasta are taking a drive. Lucasta has to go to the bathroom; so they stop at a restaurant & L. asks to use the restroom. The waiter/hostess/whatever says the restrooms are for patrons only. L. realizes this may be true but, being black, she also realizes racism may be going on here. So she & Philomena (who is, or at least looks, white) do the sort of thing civil-rights testers do. They drive around the block, wait 20 minutes, & then P. asks to use the restroom. She is allowed to. So P. & L. file a complaint with the city.Thanks for sticking with it, everyone, & for solving it, Wunderland, & please check out my new puzzle at the bottom of the page
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ahhh...good one!
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks--it also illustrates how lousy I am at guessing what will be a hard puzzle. This one took much longer to solve than many of mine I expected to be much harder.Please check out my current ones!!
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You never know which ones will take a while to solve, but it usually ends up being the ones you think are least likely to do so. This puzzle dealt with somewhat of an everyday situation, and those are always tough to solve for some reason, I guess because we try to think "Ok, why would I do what that person did", and then go after each scenario until we hit on the right one.
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually, this is not an everyday situation for most of us - racial discrimination in this particular form is so rare as to be non-existent in the UK and most of the the other non-US countries that are represented here on lateral puzzles. I would have thought that huge swathes of the US have never had segregated facilities.

Now, if it was a disabled person testing out access, that would be another matter.

Very interesting puzzle.
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne--Huge swaths of the U.S. never had legally enforced segregation( in fact, I thinbk only the South ever did), & in some states, racial discrimination in public accomodations has always been illegal (as it now is in the whole country),. But there have always been racists & still are. For this puzzle to work, you need a locale where racial discrimination, although illegal, still occurs from time to time. I agree--the puzzle would be interesting as applied to wheelchair access.
Ian (Image)
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's weird... Persephone's name changed to Philomena in the answer....
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OOOOPS

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