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Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - January 2006 » [Beroean] Well I Never « Previous Next »

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Archive through January 06, 2006Lynne22 1-06-06  11:44 pm
Archive through January 10, 2006Lynne22 1-10-06  10:32 pm
Archive through January 11, 2006Lynne22 1-11-06  9:23 am
Archive through January 11, 2006Simon Downham22 1-11-06  6:43 pm
Archive through January 12, 2006Corné van Rensburg22 1-12-06  9:51 pm
Archive through January 14, 2006Simon Downham22 1-14-06  1:07 pm
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Alan (Alan)
Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do others in the uk who might be affected, also have to be shcizophrenic? or could some of them be as normal as me?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do others in the uk who might be affected, also have to be shcizophrenic? Yes
or could some of them be as normal as me? No
Alan (Alan)
Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 12:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you know that B are more nervous even thought they haven't mentioned A?
Do B have delusions that they are American? or live or surround themsevles with American posessions?
Are B more nervous because they see the uk population as being a nation of annorexics?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you know that B are more nervous even though they haven't mentioned A? Yes
Do B have delusions that they are American? No
or live or surround themsevles with American posessions? No
Are B more nervous because they see the uk population as being a nation of annorexics? No
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they have to be schizophrenic to have this particular nervousness but it's not a direct result of having schizophrenia?

Is there some aspect, direct or indirect, of schizophrenia that makes them susceptible to this fear?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hope you enjoyed your weekend with your daughter in London!

So they have to be schizophrenic to have this particular nervousness but it's not a direct result of having schizophrenia? Correct

Is there some aspect, direct or indirect, of schizophrenia that makes them susceptible to this fear? Yesish
Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are medications relevant?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are medications relevant? Yes

knock knock ..
Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 4:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Who's there?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Morm
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Morm who?

Does the medication have an effect on their appetite?
Is the medication to calm their nervousness?
Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 10:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are these three patients the only ones who are taking this particular medication? Is the medication produced in the US? Is this relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and thanks Simon, I had a great time with my daughter
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Morm who? ... More mosquitoes!
(This only makes sense if you were privy to the previous knock knock punchline)

Lynn
Does the medication have an effect on their appetite? No
Is the medication to calm their nervousness? It is an anti-psychotic medication called Risperdal Consta which is used to reduce their psychotic symptoms

Lynne
Are these three patients the only ones who are taking this particular medication? No (there will be numerous others) but they are the only 3 on my case load and therefore the only 3 that I have had contact with

Is the medication produced in the US? Yes
Is this relevant? Yes
Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will most patients on this medication suffer from the same nervousness? Are the patients nervous (as far as they can tell) for some other reason, but the obesity of Americans is the root cause?

Is this drug also used to treat obesity?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will most patients on this medication suffer from the same nervousness? Quite likely but not necessarily

Are the patients nervous (as far as they can tell) for some other reason, but the obesity of Americans is the root cause? Yes

Is this drug also used to treat obesity? No
Robert Banfield (Robertino)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the patients nervous that the medication might be withdrawn or be in short supply?

Having done a search on this particular drug, I note that one of the (many) common side-effects is weight increase (possibly associated with elevated blood sugar levels?) - is this relevant?

It would also appear that the Consta form of the drug "should be administered every 2 weeks by deep intramuscular (IM) gluteal injection.", rather than orally. Does this method of drug administration have any relevance?

Have these patients been receiving this medication for a long period? days? weeks? months? years?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the patients nervous that the medication might be withdrawn or be in short supply? No

Having done a search on this particular drug, I note that one of the (many) common side-effects is weight increase (possibly associated with elevated blood sugar levels?) - is this relevant? No but well done for doing the research - it will pay off!

It would also appear that the Consta form of the drug "should be administered every 2 weeks by deep intramuscular (IM) gluteal injection.", rather than orally. Does this method of drug administration have any relevance? Yes indeed!

Have these patients been receiving this medication for a long period? days? weeks? months? years? The medication is about 10 years old but the version that is given by long acting injection is only a few years old and therefore very new. This means that patients have been having it for months and in some cases, weeks.
Robert Banfield (Robertino)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the discomfort caused by the injection relevant? Do the patients find the injections embarassing? Do they have to be restrained while the drug is administered? is this relevant?

Have the patients been told that the medication is for some condition other than the treatment of their psychotic symptoms? And, if so, has this story something to do with weight-control? In any case, do the patients fear for the well-being of the poor Americans who may also have to be subjected to an injection in the buttock?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the discomfort caused by the injection relevant? Yope
Do the patients find the injections embarassing? No
Do they have to be restrained while the drug is administered? No, the treatment is voluntary
is this relevant? No

Have the patients been told that the medication is for some condition other than the treatment of their psychotic symptoms? No, that would be unethical!

And, if so, has this story something to do with weight-control? If I considered such a tactic, I'd risk being disciplined!
Doctors can get away with murder but mere nurses have to be more careful!


In any case, do the patients fear for the well-being of the poor Americans who may also have to be subjected to an injection in the buttock? No, I'm sure they don't give it a thought :-)
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they fear that any weight gain that they suffer will mean that they will end up obese?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they fear that any weight gain that they suffer will mean that they will end up obese? No
Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the patients being injected with longer needles, which look more menacing, because longer needles (in order to penetrate Americans' buttocks) are being sent from America with the drugs?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the patients being injected with longer needles, which look more menacing, because longer needles (in order to penetrate Americans' buttocks) are being sent from America with the drugs? Well done!

Spoyler coming up...
Corné van Rensburg (Bixarrio)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm. So they fear the needles. Damn, that was a long way round to getting to an answer...
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

************ SPOILER *****************


several of my patients have been prescribed the long acting injection called "Risperdal Consta". This is manufactured in the USA and is supplied with it's own syringe and needle. As standard, the drug has to be administered with the supplied needle and syringe - I am not permitted to exchange it with anything else.

The American needle is substantially longer than its British cousin and is thus more fearsome in appearance! This has the effect of making those patients (on Risperdal Consta) even more than they usually would be for an injection.

Why are the American needles bigger? The reason is, the average American bottom is substantially larger than its British cousin. Why are bottoms in the USA larger than their British cousins in the UK? It is because in the USA "they eat more", resulting in John Doe being somewhat larger than Joe Bloggs!

Please note that these ideas are not of my own invention or prejudice. They are the comments offerered to me by a company representative for Janssen-Cilag, the makers of Risperdal.


Very well done and thank you to all who took part!
Corné van Rensburg (Bixarrio)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you Simon for a splendid puzzle.
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The following text, lfted from "The Times" Bristish newspaper suggests that the British eating patterns are follwoing suit with their American cousins


The Times November 29, 2005
Does my bum look too big for an effective injection?

BY NIGEL HAWKES , HEALTH EDITOR


PEOPLE’S bottoms are getting so big they no longer make a suitable target for injections, a study in Ireland has shown. Many are now so obese that the needles customarily used simply are not long enough to penetrate the fat and reach the muscle, where they are aimed, Victoria Chan told the annual meeting of the Radiological Society of America in Chicago yesterday. “Our study has demonstrated that the majority of people, especially women, are not getting the proper dosage from injections to the buttocks,” said Dr Chan, of the Adelaide and Meath Hospital in Dublin. “There is no question that obesity is the underlying cause. We have identified a new problem related, in part, to the increasing amount of fat in patients’ buttocks.”

The upper, outer quadrant of the buttocks is often chosen as a site of injection because there are relatively few large blood vessels, nerves and bones there that could be damaged by the needle. Yet the rich supply of microscopic blood vessels in muscle speeds drug absorption into the system. Intramuscular injections are a common alternative when patients cannot swallow oral medications, are fasting for a procedure or have a metabolic disorder that inhibits the absorption of drugs taken by mouth. They have increased in recent years and medicines as varied as painkillers, vaccines, contraceptives, anti-cancer and anti-nausea drugs are all injected into the muscle. But Dr Chan’s study shows that 68 per cent of “intramuscular” injections in the buttocks do not reach the muscle. “The amount of fat tissue overlying the muscles exceeds the length of the needles commonly used for these injections,” she said. They discovered this by injecting 50 patients and including a small air bubble in the injection — perfectly safe as the target site was not a blood vessel. The air bubble was located by CT scans, and the team also measured body mass index, distance to injection site and thickness of fat and muscle. Overall, the success rate of the injections was only 32 per cent. Men, who are naturally leaner in this part of the body, did better than women. More than half (56 per cent) of the injections in men reached the muscle, but in women it was a mere 8 per cent. Drug companies design medicines so that the proper dosage is absorbed into the bloodstream from the muscle. Because fat tissue has significantly fewer blood vessels, less of the drug is absorbed or sent to the right part of the body. “This results in the patient either not receiving the maximum benefit of the drug or receiving no benefit at all, because the drug levels are insufficient to have any effect,” Dr Chan said. There is also a danger that the drug will linger in the fat, possibly causing local irritation or infection. The answer is longer needles, Dr Chan said. The standard needle used in injections is five eighths of an inch long (16mm). Studies have shown that a 1in needle is adequate for men of all weights and women weighing between 9st 6lb (60kg) and 14st 2lb (90kg). Women heavier than that need a 1½in needle.

FAT NATION· Wimbledon Centre Court seats are to be widened from 40cm to 46cm · Alton Towers theme park has a special seat on its Oblivion ride for those over 20st (127kg) · Cremations in Burnley for those weighing more than 19st can only be before 9.30am after the council stated that ashes from larger corpses can clog the burners
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Corne'

Here are a few internet links to the source material above


Fat Bottomed Girls

And again
Robert Banfield (Robertino)
Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 6:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Simon,

Thanks for a great puzzle! We discovered the need to do some research into mental health issues, which is no bad thing - so we've all learnt something along the way!

Rob
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Rob. I'm pleased that you enjoyed the puzzle and found it educational to boot! (I guess most of us have learned stuff by playing on the forum that has broadened our thinking.)
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or broadened our butts by sitting too long :O

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