| Author | Message | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
He isn't exactly happy when he hears that they will have port with the fruit. Early sp01lers, please e-mail. | ||
| Clycking (Clycking)
|
"Not exactly happy" - Angry? Mostly happy apart from some reservation? "Port" - The wine? A waterside harbour? To the left? "Fruit" - A literal seed-containing plant ovary (or one that has been handled to serve)? Does the answer involve expenses? Monetary? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
"Not exactly happy" - Angry? no Mostly happy apart from some reservation? noish "Port" - The wine? yes A waterside harbour? To the left? no to rest "Fruit" - A literal seed-containing plant ovary (or one that has been handled to serve yes, this)? Does the answer involve expenses? no Monetary? no | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
@ Admins: Sorry, I forgot to put my name in the puzzle title. | ||
| Sam Greene (Pandora)
|
Was he hoping for champagne!? He = adult? human? male? Type of fruit relevant? one type of fruit or several diferent types? Any alergies relevant? Was the fruit part of a meal? Was the port to bepoured onto the fruit? or served a drink? | ||
| Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
|
Is he human? Is it relevant how he is old? Does he go to a banquet? Is he a guest? Or (one of) the host(s)? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Was he hoping for champagne!? no... He = adult? human? male? yes to all Type of fruit relevant? not really one type of fruit or several diferent types? the latter Any alergies relevant? no Was the fruit part of a meal? yes Was the port to bepoured onto the fruit? no or served a drink? yes | ||
| Clycking (Clycking)
|
Relevant that there are different types of fruit instead of one? "They" - Did/Was he to partake of the fruit? or the port? Was the combination of port and fruit somehow unappealing? less appealing than another combination? relevant at all? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Bojan_Basic: Is he human? yes Is it relevant how he is old? no Does he go to a banquet? yope Is he a guest? no...-ish Or (one of) the host(s)? no Clycking: Relevant that there are different types of fruit instead of one? no "They" - Did/Was he to partake of the fruit? no or the port? YES Was the combination of port and fruit somehow unappealing? yesish (but beware of FA) less appealing than another combination? yope, please rephrase... relevant at all? yope | ||
| Sam Greene (Pandora)
|
Was this man at a dinner party? but not an official guest? Do we need to establish what the fruits were? Did he prefer another beverage to Port? Did Port invoke bad memories to the man? Were there other people who were having port but for some reason he couldn't have any? | ||
| Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
|
Is he a waiter? | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
|
He's at a banquet yope-ishly, but no-ish as a guest and not as the host: was he one of the waiters? one of the chefs? a reporter covering the banquet for some sort of news agency? Would he have been happier had some other sort of wine been served with the fruit? something other than wine been served with the fruit? something other than fruit served with the port? | ||
| David Burn (Woubit)
|
Does he know that port is served with the cheese, and not with the fruit? Or is he some kind of barbarian who does not know these things?  | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Pandora: Was this man at a dinner party? yes but not an official guest? yes Do we need to establish what the fruits were? no Did he prefer another beverage to Port? yesish Did Port invoke bad memories to the man? no Were there other people who were having port yes... explore but for some reason he couldn't have any?NO Bojan_Basic: Is he a waiter? yes Rabrab: He's at a banquet yope-ishly, but no-ish as a guest and not as the host: was he one of the waiters? yes one of the chefs? a reporter covering the banquet for some sort of news agency? no to rest Would he have been happier had some other sort of wine been served with the fruit? NO something other than wine been served with the fruit? yes something other than fruit served with the port? no Woubit: Does he know that port is served with the cheese, and not with the fruit? irrelevant Or is he some kind of barbarian who does not know these things? barbarians are irrelevant ;) | ||
| Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
|
Was he hoping to take the port home with him? Was it a particularly good or expensive vintage? Was the port poisoned? Was the other drink (which he would have preferred to serve with the fruit) poisoned? Would it help to find out the other drink? Is Tiger beer relevant? Cognac? Scotch? | ||
| Clycking (Clycking)
|
Is wine-tasting involved? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Was he hoping to take the port home with him? no Was it a particularly good or expensive vintage? irrelevant Was the port poisoned? no Was the other drink (which he would have preferred to serve with the fruit) poisoned? no Would it help to find out the other drink? yes, but beware of FA Is Tiger beer relevant? no Cognac? no Scotch? no | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Is wine-tasting involved? no | ||
| Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
|
Is he a drunkard? And really likes Port? Therefore, he thinks that he could resist his appetite and will get drunk, what wouldn't happen if there were another drink he doesn't like? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Is he a drunkard? no And really likes Port? irrelevant Therefore, he thinks that he could resist his appetite and will get drunk, what wouldn't happen if there were another drink he doesn't like? no | ||
| Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
|
The FA: does this mean I'm wrong to assume that the Preferred Fruit Accompaniment (let's call it the PFA) is a drink, as such? Is it perhaps best described as a food? Is he teetotal? Allergic to anything? Is he a Royal Taster or similar? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
The FA: does this mean I'm wrong to assume that the Preferred Fruit Accompaniment (let's call it the PFA) is a drink, as such? no-ish Is it perhaps best described as a food? no Is he teetotal? no Allergic to anything? irrelevant Is he a Royal Taster or similar? no | ||
| Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
|
Is the other drink alcoholic? Juice? Water? Is it permitted that a waiter drinks port at that banquet? What about the drink he prefers? Would it be good for him to drink the port? Bad? Doesn't matter? Same questions for the other drink. Is he payed for being the waiter? If so, is there any difference between his salary with the port and with the other drink? Which one is bigger? Is he free to choose whether he will drink the port or not? The other drink? If the question is "no", is it relevant who is the person who orders him to do it? Somebody of the guests? Other waiters? Host? Somebody not present? Present? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Is the other drink alcoholic? NO, but beware of FA Juice? Water? irrelevant Is it permitted that a waiter drinks port at that banquet? YES What about the drink he prefers? yope, explore, but beware of FA Would it be good for him to drink the port? noish Bad? yesish Doesn't matter? it does Same questions for the other drink. irrelevant, probably not, it doesn't Is he payed for being the waiter? If so, is there any difference between his salary with the port and with the other drink? Which one is bigger? his salary is irrelevant, but yes, he is an employee Is he free to choose whether he will drink the port or not? NO... The other drink? noish, but beware of FA If the question is "no", is it relevant who is the person who orders him to do it? YES Somebody of the guests? no Other waiters? no Host? yes Somebody not present? no Present? yes | ||
| Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
|
So, the host wants that the waiter drinks the port, but not in order to taste it? Is it relevant that the port is an alcoholic drink? Would the waiter got drunk if he drinks it? Does the host want that? In order to make fool of the waiter? Did the host and the waiter have anything in the past? | ||
| Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
|
So he has to drink some of the chosen beverage as a condition of his employment? Any bets involved? Any forfeits, eg sconcing? Is it that the man would rather drink ANYTHING than this port? Is it relevant that port is traditionally passed to the left? Is it relevant that port is traditionally poured by the guests themselves and not by the waiter? Is the title relevant? Is his nationality relevant? Is he Portuguese? Would it make any difference if the dessert were Spotted Dick (say) instead of fruit? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
So, the host wants that the waiter drinks the port, but not in order to taste it? yes Is it relevant that the port is an alcoholic drink? yes Would the waiter got drunk if he drinks it? yesish... Does the host want that? I don't know, irrelevant In order to make fool of the waiter? no Did the host and the waiter have anything in the past? yes (assuming "anything" was not meant to imply "an affair") | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
So he has to drink some of the chosen beverage as a condition of his employment? yesish Any bets involved? no Any forfeits, eg sconcing? no Is it that the man would rather drink ANYTHING than this port? no Is it relevant that port is traditionally passed to the left? no Is it relevant that port is traditionally poured by the guests themselves and not by the waiter? no Is the title relevant? If you think you know the scenario, the title might confirm your suspicion. If not, you can solve the puzzle without the tiger. Is his nationality relevant? no Is he Portuguese? no Would it make any difference if the dessert were Spotted Dick (say) instead of fruit? no | ||
| Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
|
Is he afraid to get drunk? Because he will make fool of himself? Because he will fall asleep? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Is he afraid to get drunk? yes-ish, explore Because he will make fool of himself? no Because he will fall asleep? no | ||
| Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
|
Is there a tiger skin on the floor? Is it Christmas? Are we in a movie scene at all? A traditional and famous one? | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
|
Is he expected to take part in a toast that will be made during the fruit course? Which would mean that he has to toast with port (since that's what's being served with the fruit? Is the waiter particularly susceptible to port? does he get drunker quicker on port than on other wines? Is he afriad that he won't be able to properly do his job if he drinks the port? Is the relevant tiger an actual animal? a living animal? a dead animal? some part of a dead animal? (a mounted head? a skin? a claw? a tooth?) something other than an actual animal? a team or team mascot? a costume? a vehicle? some piece of equipment? the "tiger" of "three cheers and a tiger?" | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Woodworm: Is there a tiger skin on the floor? yes Is it Christmas? no Are we in a movie scene at all? yes A traditional and famous one? in Germany: YES, everywhere else: I don't think so Rabrab: Is he expected to take part in a toast that will be made during the fruit course? yes Which would mean that he has to toast with port (since that's what's being served with the fruit? yes Is the waiter particularly susceptible to port? no does he get drunker quicker on port than on other wines? no... Is he afriad that he won't be able to properly do his job if he drinks the port? yesish Is the relevant tiger an actual animal? yesish, see above a living animal? no a dead animal? noish some part of a dead animal? (a mounted head? a skin? this, no to rest a claw? a tooth?) something other than an actual animal? a team or team mascot? a costume? a vehicle? some piece of equipment? the "tiger" of "three cheers and a tiger?" no to rest | ||
| Clycking (Clycking)
|
Is he afraid to spill on the tiger skin? | ||
| Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
|
Excellent: yes, I've got it. Too good to spoil so soon, though. I saw it in Norway, actually. Is it New Year's Eve? Anything unusual about these guests? | ||
| Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
|
Check e-mail. | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Clycking: Is he afraid to spill on the tiger skin? no Woodworm: Excellent: yes, I've got it. Too good to spoil so soon, though. I saw it in Norway, actually. yepp, I think you've got it Is it New Year's Eve? YES Anything unusual about these guests? YES Bojan_Basic: Check e-mail. yes! | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Anybody out there who doesn't know the scene and wants to solve the mystery? ***Recap*** New Year's Eve. We're at a dinner party. The dessert is fruit (the type of fruit is rather irrelevant). The host wants the waiter (adult, human, male) to take part in a toast that will be made during the fruit course. They will have port (the wine). The waiter is not happy about that because he doesn't want to drink an alcoholic beverage. He is neither a drunkard nor teetotal. There is something unusual about the guests and you may want to find out something about the past of this dinner party. The title refers to a tiger skin lying on the floor. | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
|
Well, drat. Post didn't go through. And it was a lovely post, too.  The waiter is unhappy about having to drink alcohol in the presence of these guests? would he be happier if what he had to drink was non-alcoholic? Happier still if he didn't have to drink anything? Is it solely the alcohol content that makes him unhappy about drinking the port, or is there some other aspect most alcoholic drinks have in common, that other beverages don't? Is the fact that wines and other alcohol is generally served in clear glasses, so the guests will be able to see if he did or didn't actually drink relevant? flammability relevant? fact that alcohol is a solvent? Is there an aspect that all the guests have in common to be considered? discovered? most of the guests? some of the guests? does only one of the guests possess this aspect? if only one, does the waiter know which guest? Since I don't know the film, do I need to find out more about the tiger-skin rug? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
The waiter is unhappy about having to drink alcohol in the presence of these guests? no... would he be happier if what he had to drink was non-alcoholic? Happier still if he didn't have to drink anything? any of these would be fine for him (this was the FA mentioned above) Is it solely the alcohol content that makes him unhappy about drinking the port, or is there some other aspect most alcoholic drinks have in common, that other beverages don't? only the alcohol content is relevant Is the fact that wines and other alcohol is generally served in clear glasses, so the guests will be able to see if he did or didn't actually drink relevant? no flammability relevant? no fact that alcohol is a solvent? no Is there an aspect that all the guests have in common to be considered? YES discovered? YES most of the guests? some of the guests? does only one of the guests possess this aspect? if only one, does the waiter know which guest? no to these Since I don't know the film, do I need to find out more about the tiger-skin rug? not really, it's only a nice detail of the scenery | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
|
OK, let me rephrase the question about the whole alcoholic/non-alcoholic thing. Is the waiter unhappy because he, personally has to toast with alcohol, or because the guests will be toasting with alcohol? Is the aspect that all the guests have in common related to their background? their reputation? their behavior? their financial status? their social status? their physical condition? their gender? their age? something they've all done? threatened to do? been accused of doing? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
OK, let me rephrase the question about the whole alcoholic/non-alcoholic thing. Is the waiter unhappy because he, personally this has to toast with alcohol, or because the guests will be toasting with alcohol? and not this Is the aspect that all the guests have in common related to their background? yesish their reputation? no their behavior? no their financial status? no their social status? no their physical condition? yes their gender? no their age? noish something they've all done? yes, one could say so threatened to do? no been accused of doing? no | ||
| Rebecca Kreisler (Beccaann)
|
their physical condition... overweight? underweight? sick? recovered from being sick? muscular? athletic? crippled? deformed? in good shape? in bad shape? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
their physical condition... overweight? no underweight? depends strongly on your point of view... sick? no recovered from being sick? no muscular? no athletic? no crippled? no deformed? this, again, depends strongly on your point of view in good shape? nope in bad shape? yes for svv of "bad shape" | ||
| Rebecca Kreisler (Beccaann)
|
dwarfs/"little people"--or whatever the P.C. term is these days? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
dwarfs/"little people"--or whatever the P.C. term is these days? no | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
|
Poisoned? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Poisoned? no | ||
| SmarterBrother (Mycroft)
|
dead? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
dead? YES! | ||
| SmarterBrother (Mycroft)
|
Serves me right for trying to be funny! OK, so is the host dead as well? Is the waiter dead? Are we infact in the afterlife? Have the guests died recently? During the course of the dinner party? Is the host present? Is there anyone else relevant or present apart from the waiter, the host and the guests? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Serves me right for trying to be funny! indubitably OK, so is the host dead as well? no Is the waiter dead? no Are we infact in the afterlife? no Have the guests died recently? NO During the course of the dinner party? no Is the host present? yes Is there anyone else relevant or present apart from the waiter, the host and the guests? if I answer the question as it is phrased, the answer is no | ||
| SmarterBrother (Mycroft)
|
Is the waiter unaware that the guests are dead? Is the host unaware? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Is the waiter unaware that the guests are dead? no Is the host unaware? no | ||
| Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
|
Were the guests preserved in the port? | ||
| Kitral Solane (Solane)
|
Are the guests human? Have they been moved for this occasion? Moved at all? | ||
| Kitral Solane (Solane)
|
Is this an annually, or other interval, repeated party?If so, same beople there? Bodies? Host? Waiter? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Haenlomal: Were the guests preserved in the port? hehe... no Solane: Are the guests human? yes Have they been moved for this occasion? Moved at all? no and no Is this an annually, this! or other interval, repeated party? If so, same beople there? yes, and... Bodies? no Host? yes Waiter? yes | ||
| Kitral Solane (Solane)
|
Are bodies usually there? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Are bodies usually there? no, and beware of FA | ||
| Kitral Solane (Solane)
|
There as in the party. Are the guests there at all? Physically, I mean? | ||
| Rebecca Kreisler (Beccaann)
|
Ghosts? | ||
| Kitral Solane (Solane)
|
Is it a seance of some sort? Some other contact with the dead not physically present? Are there any other living people present aside from the waiter and the host? Is the waiter there in the professional sense, waiting on people with food, bevereges etc.? Waiting for something to happen? Nickname? Just happens to be employed as a waiter, but that's not the reason for his being there? | ||
| Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
|
Does one of the guests have a habit that causes harm to the waiter's foot during the puzzle? Is there a reference to potential brutality against a living animal during the puzzle? Does the host seem to hold a relevant, erroneous belief? Is a chair tipped backwards at any time during the puzzle? Does one of the guests have a career at sea? Does one of the other guests have a partly seasonal, partly positional, surname? Does one of the guests seem to drink a bit more than the others? Do the guests seem to become intoxicated to a larger degree than what one would expect from the amount of alchohol consumed by each of them? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Solane: There as in the party. Are the guests there at all? Physically, I mean? NO Beccaann: Ghosts? no Solane: Is it a seance of some sort? no Some other contact with the dead not physically present? no Are there any other living people present aside from the waiter and the host? NO Is the waiter there in the professional sense, waiting on people with food, bevereges etc.? yes, explore Waiting for something to happen? no Nickname? If you mean that "waiter" is only his nickname, that's not the case. In fact, he's called James. Just happens to be employed as a waiter, but that's not the reason for his being there? no with tiny -ish | ||
| Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
|
10:47 please...? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
I'm sorry, your post must have appeared while I was editing, so I overlooked it Does one of the guests have a habit that causes harm to the waiter's foot during the puzzle? yes! Is there a reference to potential brutality against a living animal during the puzzle? hehe... yes! Does the host seem to hold a relevant, erroneous belief? yesish Is a chair tipped backwards at any time during the puzzle? yes! Does one of the guests have a career at sea? yes! Does one of the other guests have a partly seasonal, partly positional, surname? yes! Does one of the guests seem to drink a bit more than the others? yes! Do the guests seem to become intoxicated to a larger degree than what one would expect from the amount of alchohol consumed by each of them? oh well... maybe OK, you know this. I'm afraid all those details won't help the other players that much... | ||
| Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
|
Well, it is not good behaviour when one knows a puzzle to ask questions that give everything away, is it? By the way, I ran this some 2 or 3 years ago. I believed the thing was rather international, and would be well known to a large number of the clever forum community. As it turned out, it wasn't. It's probably not a coincindence that one of the two (?) other persons having solved it reports to have seen it in Norway. If you're counting on this puzzle to be of the kind that 'clicks into place' in the participants' heads because they're familiar with it, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed. If you've just intended it as a usual "brute-force-guess-your-way-from-beginning-to-end" kind of puzzle, it's probably OK. | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
I was aware that some people might know the scene. Therefore the spoiler-warning at the beginning. I think the scene makes a nice mystery puzzle. Do you really think the chain of reasoning is too long? Brute-force seems to imply this. Do you have bad experience from your running the puzzle? Oh, and my comment was in no way meant to criticise you. In fact, I'm happy you didn't ask questions that would give everything away. My comment was only intended as a warning for those who want to solve the puzzle, that they better shouldn't make your questions a starting point for further investigations since they only reveal amusing details and not the basic mystery. My apologies if you misunderstood me. | ||
| SmarterBrother (Mycroft)
|
(Still scratching my head) Is the port toast raised "to absent friends?" Is the wording of the toast relevant at all? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
|
Is the port toast raised "to absent friends?" NO Is the wording of the toast relevant at all? the exact words are irrelevant, but it may help to find out who toasts with/to whom. | ||
| Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
|
By all means, "brute force" was just meant as a contrast to "click-in-place-I've-heard-this-before" type of puzzle. My bad experience with the puzzle was only due to the fact that I was basing my expectations on my assumption that people would already be aquainted with the story. Good luck! | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
|
WAG: Is the party being held in a museum? In the Egyptian Gallery perhaps? Are the dead guests real? (i.e. there are actual not-recently-dead bodies propped in chairs around the table?) real but not actually present? ( i.e. a dinner in honor of fallen comrades?) fictional? imaginary? | ||
| Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
|
Btw, I think "Tiger rag" would have been a nice title for this puzzle. But I suppose you have to know both a bit about jazz, and the solution to the puzzle in order to get the double meaning. | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 344 Registered: 3-2006 |
WAG: Is the party being held in a museum? no In the Egyptian Gallery perhaps? so, no Are the dead guests real? (i.e. there are actual not-recently-dead bodies propped in chairs around the table?) no real but not actually present? yes ( i.e. a dinner in honor of fallen comrades? but no to this) fictional? no imaginary? noish, please rephrase | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1254 Registered: 2-2005 |
Rephrase: was there some sort of role-playing going on, with live guests at the dinner playing the parts of various dead people? (Frex a dinner party with people playing "Elizabeth I," "Albert Einstein", "Oscar Wilde" and "Annie Oakley"?) | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 345 Registered: 3-2006 |
Rephrase: was there some sort of role-playing going on yes, with live guests at the dinner playing the parts of various dead people? noish... but explore (Frex a dinner party with people playing "Elizabeth I," "Albert Einstein", "Oscar Wilde" and "Annie Oakley"?)no | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1257 Registered: 2-2005 |
OK, the role-play: was it persona-play, with the guests each having created (or had asssigned to them?) the role/persona of someone who could have lived in a certain time period but didn't actually? A murder mystery weekend? Are all the dead guests from the same time period? from the same geographical era? from roughly the same social strata? Clue/Cluedo (the game/movie relevant?) All the guests have faked their deaths and taken on new identities for some reason, and so as far as the world is concerned, they're all "dead" but really they've changed their names? (witness protection? insurance fraud? some other reason?) Murder by Death relevant? | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 11 Registered: 7-2006 |
Are the guests ghosts? Is the waiter alive? Is the host alive? Is there a religious reason why the port isn't welcome to the waiter? Does the party happen annually as some ritual? Or curse? Something that's destined to happen every year forever? Or until something happens to 'break' the curse? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 346 Registered: 3-2006 |
Rabrab: OK, the role-play: was it persona-play, with the guests each having created (or had asssigned to them?) the role/persona of someone who could have lived in a certain time period but didn't actually? no A murder mystery weekend? no Are all the dead guests from the same time period? yes from the same geographical era? yes, I'd think so from roughly the same social strata? yes, again, I'd think so Clue/Cluedo (the game/movie relevant?)no All the guests have faked their deaths and taken on new identities for some reason, and so as far as the world is concerned, they're all "dead" but really they've changed their names? (witness protection? insurance fraud? some other reason?)no Murder by Death relevant? no Plebeian: Are the guests ghosts? still no Is the waiter alive? still yes Is the host alive? still yes Is there a religious reason why the port isn't welcome to the waiter?no Does the party happen annually as some ritual? yes, there's something more or less ritualistic about this, but be careful with the term Or curse? no Something that's destined to happen every year forever? no, not forever Or until something happens yes to 'break' the curse? no to the rest of the question | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 19 Registered: 7-2006 |
Sorry for the repeats, I tried to pick out the salient points from earlier posts, obviously missed the very ones I was needing. Are the guests Gods? IS the host forced against his will to hold this annual event? Or does he happily host the party? Do the guests come willingly? Does the waiter attend willingly? | ||
| SmarterBrother (Mycroft)
New member Username: Mycroft Post Number: 79 Registered: 10-2003 |
Is the waiter playing the parts of all the dead people? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 347 Registered: 3-2006 |
Plebeian: Are the guests Gods?no IS the host forced against his will to hold this annual event? no Or does he happily host the party?yes and FA Do the guests come willingly?FA Does the waiter attend willingly?yope Mycroft: Is the waiter playing the parts of all the dead people? YES | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 110 Registered: 7-2006 |
Does playing the parts mean he has to drink the toast in place of each of the people, leading to his discomfort? Is the host blind? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 361 Registered: 3-2006 |
Does playing the parts mean he has to drink the toast in place of each of the people, leading to his discomfort? YES Is the host blind? no You're very close to the solution now. The only thing that remains to find out is why they do this: Why is this an annual party? Why are there no living guests? | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 134 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is the host of normally sound mind? Is the waiter trying to humour the host by pretending the guests are here? Or trying to trick the host? Is this some kind of play? Or annual role-playing game in which the host and the waiter partake? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 363 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is the host of normally sound mind? Oh well... people might disagree here. However, the host is not insane, although somewhat queer. Is the waiter trying to humour the host by pretending the guests are here? no, if you mean the waiter is trying to be funny; yes, if you mean the waiter wants the host to be in a good mood Or trying to trick the host? no Is this some kind of play? Or annual role-playing game in which the host and the waiter partake? closer to this | ||
| Moderator Feenwelt (Dietmar)
Moderator Username: Dietmar Post Number: 29 Registered: 9-2004 |
Just looking in to gratulate to a very nice puzzle, which I (as a German) of course know. Funny, until I was 20 or so, I always thought, it would be a british standard. | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 364 Registered: 3-2006 |
Thank you! | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 145 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is the host eccentric? Does the host actually know the people aren't present? Is he wanting to put on the pretence and insists the waiter helps? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 365 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is the host eccentric? yesish Does the host actually know the people aren't present? yes Is he wanting to put on the pretence and insists the waiter helps? yesish and FA These were rather difficult to answer... Try to find out about the relation between the host and the guests and what they are celebrating. | ||
| Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
New member Username: Rabrab Post Number: 1277 Registered: 2-2005 |
OK, was there some sort of a contract? promise? vow? agreement? between the host and the guests that this dinner would be held every year until they were all dead? Does he have to host the dinner to get? keep? some benefit? To keep some benefit from going to someone else?
The FA: That he's happy about it? Is he willing but not happy? That it's a party? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 366 Registered: 3-2006 |
OK, was there some sort of a contract? promise? vow? agreement? between the host and the guests that this dinner would be held every year until they were all dead? no Does he have to host the dinner to get? keep? some benefit? To keep some benefit from going to someone else? no and FA quote: Or does he happily host the party? yes and FA The FA: That he's happy about it? Is he willing but not happy? That it's a party? none of these, the FA is still there | ||
| Rebecca Kreisler (Beccaann)
New member Username: Beccaann Post Number: 149 Registered: 6-2006 |
Is the FA that the host is a he? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 367 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is the FA that the host is a he? yes, the host is in fact a hostess. | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 160 Registered: 7-2006 |
Were, at some time in the past, all the 'guests' actually alive? (stupid question alert!) And all present at a past party? Did all the guests die in one incident? or over a number of years? Is this situation likely to continue for an undetermined number of years? Until the death of the waiter? Death of the hostess? Death of both? [after which I think further parties would be unlikely (-:] Or until some other condition is met? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 368 Registered: 3-2006 |
Were, at some time in the past, all the 'guests' actually alive? (stupid question alert!) yes. There are no stupid questions. And all present at a past party? yes Did all the guests die in one incident? no or over a number of years? this Is this situation likely to continue for an undetermined number of years? yope, hard to say, maybe a few years Until the death of the waiter? possibly Death of the hostess? definitely this Death of both? [after which I think further parties would be unlikely (-:] just as you say Or until some other condition is met? irrel | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 163 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is cause of death of the guests relevant? Were the guests related by some other relevant factor than just this annual meal? Members of some club? Was there some kind of pach that this party would continue annually until all party members had died? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 369 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is cause of death of the guests relevant? no Were the guests related by some other relevant factor than just this annual meal? yes Members of some club? no Was there some kind of pach that this party would continue annually until all party members had died? no | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 169 Registered: 7-2006 |
Were the guests gathering (when alive) to commemerate some past event? Some event in which they were all involved? As the previously alive guests died over the passing years, did the annual parties continue regardless? Did the alive people continue to come to the party? Did the same waiter (? or another waiter?) attend these? Did the waiter (or a waiter) have to fill in over successive years for more and more people? (not sure how this will help solve, but an amusing image!) | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 373 Registered: 3-2006 |
Were the guests gathering (when alive) to commemerate some past event? no Some event in which they were all involved? no As the previously alive guests died over the passing years, did the annual parties continue regardless? yes Did the alive people continue to come to the party? yes, I guess Did the same waiter (? or another waiter?) attend these? I don't know, irrel Did the waiter (or a waiter) have to fill in over successive years for more and more people? maybe (not sure how this will help solve, but an amusing image!) In the source, nothing is said about the intermediate years when some of the guests had died but others were still alive. The image of the waiter filling in for more and more people is indeed amusing. The intermediate years are not relevant, however. | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 176 Registered: 7-2006 |
Were the guests related to each other as family? Were any (? or all?) of the guests related to the host as family? Were the guests related to each other as colleagues? Were any (? or all?) of the guests related to the host as colleagues? Were the guests related to each other as friends? Were any (? or all?) of the guests related to the host as friends? Did the guests (and/or host) share some pase experience which led to this annual gathering? (next point may have been covered) Were the guests, when alive, attending the gathering: - Willingly? For social reasons? (i.e. simply because they were friends/colleagues) Through some obligation? In order to do something else before/during/after the meal? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 376 Registered: 3-2006 |
Were the guests related to each other as family? no Were any (? or all?) of the guests related to the host as family? no Were the guests related to each other as colleagues? no Were any (? or all?) of the guests related to the host as colleagues? no Were the guests related to each other as friends? yes Were any (? or all?) of the guests related to the host as friends? yes Did the guests (and/or host) share some pase experience which led to this annual gathering? see above (next point may have been covered) Were the guests, when alive, attending the gathering: - Willingly? yes For social reasons? (i.e. simply because they were friends/colleagues) this too Through some obligation? no In order to do something else before/during/after the meal? noish or yope, please rephrase | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 181 Registered: 7-2006 |
Was there some point to the gathering, other than just a social meal? Was there some purpose to the gatherings other than just a social meal? Did one/more/all of the people previously attending die during one of these annual gatherings? Did any of the dead people die of anything relevant other than natural causes? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 377 Registered: 3-2006 |
Was there some point to the gathering, other than just a social meal? Was there some purpose to the gatherings other than just a social meal? YES Did one/more/all of the people previously attending die during one of these annual gatherings? I don't think so. Irrelevant. Did any of the dead people die of anything relevant other than natural causes? no | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 187 Registered: 7-2006 |
Was the thing they were gathering for something that happened before the meal? During the meal? After the meal? (not actually sure how the answer's going to help me ) Was the gathering for some religious purpose? Some artistic performance, such as attending a concert & the meal followed? Some occult purpose? Some business meeting? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 380 Registered: 3-2006 |
Was the thing they were gathering for something that happened before the meal? During the meal? After the meal?all of these (not actually sure how the answer's going to help me :-)) Was the gathering for some religious purpose? Some artistic performance, such as attending a concert & the meal followed? Some occult purpose? Some business meeting? no to rest | ||
| Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 54 Registered: 7-2006 |
Christiane, is the "episode" of the meal just part of a larger show? I've never seen anything but the events from the butler begins to serve the food ("Same procedure as last year, Miss Sophie?") until he begins to follow her upstairs. | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 381 Registered: 3-2006 |
Torgeir, no, there's only that one bit. The phrase "Same procedure as last year, Miss Sophie?" simply alludes to the fact that this is an annual meal which is not being held for the first time - James knows his role well... | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 218 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is there some purpose to the acting out of the roles, other than simply humouring the host? Is the host (and/or waiter) trying to achieve something with this act? Would some set of circumstances mean the meal was no longer required by the host? (other than death of host) | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 400 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is there some purpose to the acting out of the roles, other than simply humouring the host? noish, but explore Is the host (and/or waiter) trying to achieve something with this act? yesish, explore Would some set of circumstances mean the meal was no longer required by the host? (other than death of host) unlikely | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 402 Registered: 3-2006 |
*** Recap *** New Year's Eve. Miss Sophie is giving an annual party. Her waiter, James, plays the roles of all the guests, because all the guests are unfortunately dead and therefore can not attend the party themselves. A meal with several courses is served. During each course, the host brings out a toast. Since James has to drink for all the guests, he is not very happy when the host tells him that they will have port with the dessert because he is already pretty drunk and doesn't want to face total destruction. The guests were all friends of the host. There is nothing special about the way the guests died - most probably of natural causes. This annual meal has a long tradition and will most likely continue until the host is dead. Left to find out: What are they celebrating? Does this somehow explain the weirdness of this situation? | ||
| Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 55 Registered: 7-2006 |
Do they celebrate anything special? I thought it was just an 'ordinary' new year's party? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 403 Registered: 3-2006 |
Do they celebrate anything special? yes I thought it was just an 'ordinary' new year's party? no | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 220 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is there another person (or persons) who will see the party? Is there some bad thing likely to happen if the party does not go ahead? Are they pretending to someone else that they are all still attending the party even though most ar edead? Is there some funding provided for the party which continues as long as the party continues? Is there some condition of a will that the party continues until all the attendees are dead? Or did the guests make a vow to have a celebration like this for the next (say) 100 years? Or until no-one of their number was left to celebrate? (maybe covered the next point before in other ways) Does the hostess actually want to continue the party year after year? Does she get some monetary benefit for doing so? Does she simply get good memories of the previous guests? Or is she somehow compelled to continue with the party against her will? Are the guests celebrating something about one of their number? Or something they all did in the past? Or some external event which they considered worthy of celebration? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 405 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is there another person (or persons) who will see the party? no Is there some bad thing likely to happen if the party does not go ahead? no - apart from the host being in a bad mood, of course Are they pretending to someone else that they are all still attending the party even though most ar edead? no Is there some funding provided for the party which continues as long as the party continues? no Is there some condition of a will that the party continues until all the attendees are dead? no Or did the guests make a vow to have a celebration like this for the next (say) 100 years? no Or until no-one of their number was left to celebrate? no (maybe covered the next point before in other ways) Does the hostess actually want to continue the party year after year? yes Does she get some monetary benefit for doing so? no Does she simply get good memories of the previous guests? yesish Or is she somehow compelled to continue with the party against her will? no Are the guests celebrating something about one of their number? YOPE - please clarify Or something they all did in the past? no Or some external event which they considered worthy of celebration? no | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 224 Registered: 7-2006 |
Was one/more/all the previous guests romantically linked with each other? with the hostess? Were the party previously celebrating something about the hostess? Are these parties continuing just because the hostess wishes them to continue? Is she somehow deluded as to who is at the party today? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 407 Registered: 3-2006 |
Was one/more/all the previous guests romantically linked with each other? no with the hostess? yesish, but irrelevant Were the party previously celebrating something about the hostess? YES (Hint: it's nothing complicated...) Are these parties continuing just because the hostess wishes them to continue? yes - why? Is she somehow deluded as to who is at the party today? no | ||
| Rebecca Kreisler (Beccaann)
New member Username: Beccaann Post Number: 194 Registered: 6-2006 |
the hostess's birthday party perhaps? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 409 Registered: 3-2006 |
the hostess's birthday party perhaps? YES! Now, what is the (simple) reason for the hostess to go on with these parties? | ||
| Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member Username: Plebeian Post Number: 231 Registered: 7-2006 |
That she's potty and see's no reason why her birthday parties shouldn't have places for all her friends, even though they're all dead? | ||
| Christiane Scharf (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 411 Registered: 3-2006 |
That she's potty and see's no reason why her birthday parties shouldn't have places for all her friends, even though they're all dead? yesish, but what could be the reason for her being so queer? | ||
| SmarterBrother (Mycroft)
New member Username: Mycroft Post Number: 89 Registered: 10-2003 |
As all her friends are dead, she's probably quite old, right? Does she have senile dementia? | ||
| 0815 (0815)
New member Username: 0815 Post Number: 413 Registered: 3-2006 |
As all her friends are dead, she's probably quite old, right? YES! Does she have senile dementia? well, at least senile weirdness... Time for a *** SPOILER *** This puzzle is based on "Der 90. Geburtstag - oder: Dinner for one" ("The 90th birthday - or: Dinner for one"). This is a 15min theater sketch recorded for TV in 1963, which has become so popular in Germany that they broadcast it on several stations on New Year's Eve every year. Interestingly, it's in English and neither dubbed nor subtitled - something which is really rare in the German TV landscape. The story: New Year's Eve. Miss Sophie is giving her 90th birthday party. Her waiter, James, plays the roles of all the guests, because the hostess has already long outlived them all and therefore they can not attend the party themselves. A meal with several courses is served. During each course, the hostess brings out a toast. Since James has to drink for all the guests, he is not very happy when the hostess tells him that they will have port with the dessert because he is already pretty drunk and doesn't want to face total destruction. This dinner party has been going on for several years now, and during each course James asks: "The same procedure as last year, Miss Sophie?" and she answers: "The same procedure as every year, James." The puzzle title: A tiger skin on the floor is giving James some trouble as he always stumbles over it when he fetches the food or drinks. This, however, gets better when he gets more and more drunk. He is then able to walk around the tiger skin or jump over it... More information can be found here: http://www1.ndr.de/ndr_pages_std/0,2570,OID258514,00.html They have the complete text and some video scenes. If you have access to a TV station that broadcasts this on New Year's Eve, be sure not to miss it! Thanks to all who participated! I hope you had some fun! | ||
| Mycroft (Mycroft)
New member Username: Mycroft Post Number: 95 Registered: 10-2003 |
That's a very bizarre sketch! I've never seen or heard of it before even though I recognise the name of the actor. | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2006 |
If anyone is still reading this (well I did) you can find the film 'Dinner for One' on google video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8908622153579785434&q=%2522dinner+for+one%2522 Fast internet connection needed. I liked the puzzle even if I kwew the sketch. | ||
| Tehanu (Tehanu)
New member Username: Tehanu Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2005 |
Dear lord that was hilarious! |
