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Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Post Number: 1480
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It was going to be a long trip, so she practiced. But because she practiced, the trip was even longer.
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 5:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

she 1 = she 2?
trip 1 = trip 2?

is the trip a single journey from point a to point b?
relevant what vehicle she is traveling in?
was she practicing a musical performance?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 6:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sixtyeight

she 1 = she 2?
trip 1 = trip 2?
Yes to both

is the trip a single journey from point a to point b? Yes
relevant what vehicle she is traveling in? Yes
was she practicing a musical performance? Yes, explore
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was she in a car? bus? plane? train?

was she playing an instrument? singing? if an instrument is it a string? percussion? brass? wind?
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she sing at a high pitched tone and shatter the windows of the vehicles?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she get good because she practiced?
Are other people involved?
did people watch her perform?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

~damia~ Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:15 am:
was she in a car? bus? plane? train? The last one; a train

was she playing an instrument? Yope
singing? No.
if an instrument is it a string?
percussion?
brass?
wind? None of these


Crazypalpig Friday, July 27, 2007 - 1:22 pm:
Did she sing at a high pitched tone and shatter the windows of the vehicles? No. Nothing like this


Martinfg Friday, July 27, 2007 - 2:44 pm:

Did she get good because she practiced? Yes.

did people watch her perform? Yes. If I wanted to be hard-line about it, I'd just say Yes to these two questions, and let it go. But I'm a softy, so I'll add: May mislead

Are other people involved? Yes
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the trip actually take more time?
if not, did it just seem longer--to the girl or to the other people?

did she have an instrument with her? if so, was it something people would usually equate with music? if not, were they spoons perhaps? washboard?

if it was an instrument, did it make a percussion sound--drumming? clicking? popping? was it a whistling sound?

did the music come from her own body? lips? hands? feet? teeth?

was it a loud sound? soft?

did the sounds get on other peoples' nerves?
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did you answer "yope" to "is she playing an instrument" because..
she is making music with something that is not normally called a musical instrument?
is it questionable whether she is "playing"
is she conducting or leading someone else?

is she making polyphonic tones? (multiple tones at one time like a piano)
is she practicing a solo performance? one with another player? or other players?
is musical genre relevant?
is time period relevant?
is any other performer relevant? musical? other type of performer?
when she practiced was there an audible sound? could other people on the train hear the music?
is she practicing on something electronic?
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did she practice on the long trip? before it?
did she practice because the long trip allowed her the needed time to do so? to kill time?
was there something about the trip that she had to "get in shape" for, and hence, practice?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this the puzzle you were talking about? =)

Oh yeah...I guess I should ask some questions while I'm at it, and get some basics outta the way.


Is this a real story?

SBQs about the girl...is she adult? child? relevant?

Train journey: the location where she started from relevant? her destination relevant? Or could it be any two locations sufficiently distanced from each other?

Was she planning to peform her "musical performance" once she arrived at her destination?

Is the reason she set out on her trip relevant?

The "other people" involved: are they directly involved? Indiretly involved? How many of each [insert LTPF list of positive integers here]?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a piano tuner?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Booklover Friday, July 27, 2007 - 3:48 pm:

did the trip actually take more time? Yes.
if not, did it just seem longer--to the girl or to the other people?

did she have an instrument with her? Yope.
if so, was it something people would usually equate with music? No, not really.
if not, were they spoons perhaps? washboard? But nothing like this, no.

if it was an instrument, It wasn't did it make a percussion sound But, yes -- drumming? clicking? popping? was it a whistling sound?
But none of these really describe the sound it makes. Another word is much more accurate.

did the music come from her own body? lips? hands? feet? teeth? No.

was it a loud sound? soft? Moderate.

did the sounds get on other peoples' nerves? Mmmm, no.


Sixtyeight Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:07 pm:

did you answer "yope" to "is she playing an instrument" because..
she is making music with something that is not normally called a musical instrument? No; FA.
is it questionable whether she is "playing" No.
is she conducting or leading someone else? No.

is she making polyphonic tones? (multiple tones at one time like a piano) Good question! No, she's not.

is she practicing a solo performance? one with another player? or other players? Could be any of these, but she's practicing alone, if that's what you're asking.

is musical genre relevant? Maybe, but it's not vital.
is time period relevant? Yes!
is any other performer relevant? musical? other type of performer? No.

when she practiced was there an audible sound? YES
could other people on the train hear the music? Yope; FA
is she practicing on something electronic? No.

did she practice on the long trip? Yes.
before it? Yes, but irrelevant.
did she practice because the long trip allowed her the needed time to do so? to kill time? Yes to both.
was there something about the trip that she had to "get in shape" for, and hence, practice? That too, yes.
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was she playing a tape? listening to the original to learn hers better?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haenlomal Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:45 pm:

Is this the puzzle you were talking about? =) Yeppers. Have fun.

Oh yeah...I guess I should ask some questions while I'm at it, and get some basics outta the way. That would be a Good Thing. 8-)


Is this a real story? Yes, indeed it is.

SBQs about the girl...is she adult? child? relevant? Adult, relevant.

Train journey: the location where she started from relevant? her destination relevant? Identifying the starting point could be helpful, but isn't necessary, the end point is really not relevant. Or could it be any two locations sufficiently distanced from each other? Yes to this one.

Was she planning to perform her "musical performance" once she arrived at her destination? Yope.

Is the reason she set out on her trip relevant? Yes.

The "other people" involved: are they directly involved? Indiretly involved? How many of each [insert LTPF list of positive integers here]?

One directly involved and relevant; 4 to 10 indirectly involved, but not really relevant; possibly another hundred or more present, but not really involved and not relevant.


Woodworm Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:48 pm:

Is she a piano tuner? Good thought, but no.
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

~damia~ Friday, July 27, 2007 - 5:01 pm:

was she playing a tape? listening to the original to learn hers better? No to both.
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

century:
18th?
19?
20th?
21st?
in the future?

was it a common passanger train? freight train?

Her starting point:
Europe?
Americas?
Asias?
Africa?

did the her sound come from..
air rushing through something?
vibrating strings?
striking something?
vibrations from something man-made?

did she have to manipulate something with her hands to make sounds?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with the Holocaust?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sixtyeight Friday, July 27, 2007 - 5:52 pm

century:
18th?
19? This one.
20th?
21st?
in the future?

was it a common passenger train? And this one. freight train?

Her starting point:
Europe? Here.
Americas?
Asias?
Africa?

did the her sound come from..
air rushing through something? No.
vibrating strings? No.
striking something? Yes, but explore further...
vibrations from something man-made? Yes.

did she have to manipulate something with her hands to make sounds? Yes, but explore further.


Woodworm Friday, July 27, 2007 - 6:22 pm:

Anything to do with the Holocaust? No.
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 6:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the "instrument" she was playing physically connected with the train? with the railroad system? organizationally connected with transportation system in general?

Could she practice while train was in motion? only at the stations? whenever the train would stop?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Emeraldink Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 6:26 am:
Was the "instrument" she was playing physically connected with the train? No.
with the railroad system? No.
organizationally connected with transportation system in general? No.

Could she practice while train was in motion? only at the stations? whenever the train would stop? She was not limited in when she could practice by what the train was doing. She could practice whenever she wanted.
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she strike objects with her bare hands? Or with another implement? Are the relevant objects made of metal? Wood? Is her race relevant? Her social class? Her age? Is she related to a famous musician? Does she have any disabilities? Does she get paid for making sounds? Is she tapping out a message or code of some sort? When you say "the trip was longer", do you mean longer in distance? Or just longer in time? Is the one other relevant person the driver of the train? Does she annoy anyone when practising? Does this happen in Beethoven's lifetime (1827 or before)? Or during what we'd normally call the Romantic period (say, after 1830)? Anything to do with the invention of the metronome?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Another silly thought: is she a bell-ringer?
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

when she praticed, did she
read musical notation from a page?
strike something to make a rhythm? melody?
did she use another item to practice on? (like using pads to practice drums?)

Her starting point:
Albania
Andorra
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Austria
Belarus
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Croatia
Czech Republic or Czechia
Cyprus
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Georgia
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Kazakhstan
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
FYR of Macedonia (Republic of Macedonia)
Malta
Moldova
Monaco
Montenegro
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
San Marino
Serbia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Turkey
Ukraine
United Kingdom
Vatican City
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woodworm Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 12:16 pm:

Does she strike objects with her bare hands? Yes.
Or with another implement? No.
Are the relevant objects made of metal? Wood? The actual objects that her hands touch are neither wood nor metal. The thing that she is practicing on contains wood, metal, and other materials as well.

Is her race relevant? No.
Her social class? Slightly.
Her age? Even more slightly.
Is she related to a famous musician? Yes.
Does she have any disabilities? Not that I know of, if she does, they are not relevant to the puzzle.
Does she get paid for making sounds? Yes, she does. Paid well.

Is she tapping out a message or code of some sort? No.

When you say "the trip was longer", do you mean longer in distance? Or just longer in time? This one: in time.

Is the one other relevant person the driver of the train? No. But he would be one of the 4-10 indirectly involved but not really relevant people.

Does she annoy anyone when practising? Not intentionally, nor regularly, but her practicing might annoy someone under the right circumstances.

Does this happen in Beethoven's lifetime (1827 or before)? No.
Or during what we'd normally call the Romantic period (say, after 1830)? Yes. It happened sometime after 1860.

Anything to do with the invention of the metronome? No, but a very nice lateral leap.

Another silly thought: is she a bell-ringer? Silly thoughts may be silly, but they are often helpful. Unfortunately, in this case the answer is No.
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sixtyeight Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 5:50 pm:

when she practiced, did she read musical notation from a page? Most likely, but possibly not.
strike something to make a rhythm? melody? Yope.
did she use another item to practice on? (like using pads to practice drums?) YES!! Except it wasn't drums. But very, very much like this.

The trip started in Germany.
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she, in fact, Clara Schumann? Did she practise on a dummy keyboard while travelling to a concert? Did she use some hand-strengthening contraption (I think Robert Schumann damaged his hand by using something similar)? Did she actually suffer some injury that delayed the journey?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woodworm Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 6:46 pm:


Is she, in fact, Clara Schumann? In fact, she is.
Did she practise on a dummy keyboard while travelling to a concert? And indeed she did.

Did she use some hand-strengthening contraption (I think Robert Schumann damaged his hand by using something similar)? No, no other contraption was involved. Just the silent keyboard.

Did she actually suffer some injury that delayed the journey? No. This is an injury-free puzzle.

You're good! What's left to find out: how did her practicing on a portable silent keyboard make the trip take longer?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, so in Clara's lifetime, it must have been a steam train, right? Is this relevant? Did the clacking of the keys keep anyone awake? Did it distract the driver? Did anyone (like a railway engineer) think that her clacking was actually something wrong with the train? (Thinking of the old Volkswagen advert where a guy thinks his car is faulty, and it turns out to be his girlfriend's earrings squeaking.) Did the noise of the keyboard get confused with any sort of signalling mechanism? Another silly thought: did Clara tell the driver to slow down so that the clatter of railway tracks would be in the same tempo as her piece?

There's one other highly relevant person, isn't there? This can't be Robert because he is dead. One of Clara's suitors? A maid? Her new husband (I can't recall whether she married again)? A signalman? An engineer? A waiter or such?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woodworm Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 11:11 pm:

OK, so in Clara's lifetime, it must have been a steam train, right? True
Is this relevant? Not particularly.
Did the clacking of the keys keep anyone awake? Possibly, but that's not the relevant part...
Did it distract the driver? Probably not. I doubt that he could hear it over the noise in the engine...
Did anyone (like a railway engineer) think that her clacking was actually something wrong with the train? Oh, pooh. <sulking> ;-) I really had hopes that this one wouldn't be a quickie. But it looks like it's going to be. This is it exactly. Yes.

(Thinking of the old Volkswagen advert where a guy thinks his car is faulty, and it turns out to be his girlfriend's earrings squeaking.) I'd forgotten that one.

Did the noise of the keyboard get confused with any sort of signalling mechanism? No.
Another silly thought: did Clara tell the driver to slow down so that the clatter of railway tracks would be in the same tempo as her piece? Not that is mentioned anywhere. So, No.

There's one other highly relevant person, isn't there? relevant, but not highly relevant, exactly
This can't be Robert because he is dead. true dat.
One of Clara's suitors? No.
A maid? No.
Her new husband (I can't recall whether she married again)? I don't believe that she did. In any case, no.
A signalman? No.
An engineer? No.
A waiter or such? Or such, Yes.

You've got what you need to put it together in rough form, or keep going and discover the circumstances that caused her to inadvertently delay the train. Your choice.
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 4:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We have established that the "second relevant" character is not the train driver ( or should we say conductor ) nor the engineer, right? Could it be someone else working on the train? someone called in to repair the train? or the maker of the silent keyboard? her assistant or secretary?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 4:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Emeraldink Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 4:26 am:

We have established that the "second relevant" character is not the train driver (or should we say conductor ) nor the engineer, right? Well, we had established that he wasn't the driver (who would be the engineer,) and that his position is not entirely unlike a waiter. (I'm sorry if I wasn't clear when I answered "Or such, Yes." to "A waiter or such?")

Could it be someone else working on the train? It not only could be, it is. Yes.

someone called in to repair the train? No.
or the maker of the silent keyboard? Not him, either.
her assistant or secretary? and again, No.
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sheesh...leave the LTPF alone for just one weekend, and the puzzle is nearly done. :P

The train conductor?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 2:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was afraid that you weren't going to get back in time.

Haenlomal Monday, July 30, 2007 - 8:18 pm:

The train conductor? What about him? <grin> Oh, Yes, he is the other relevant and present person.
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just as an aside to Woodword, Schumann injured his hand by putting weights onhis thumb and pinky to try to expand his hand width. After his skin between his fingers broke, he has completely unable to play the piano
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Eeeewwwwwww. That's a mental image that won't go away for a while. <shudder.>
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, you've gotten all the salient points, and this puzzle seems to have dried up, so, here's the

****************SPOILER***********************

During one of her concert tours in the last half of the 19th century, Mme. Clara Schumann was taking an overnight train between two cities. When the train stopped along the way for a brief, scheduled stop, she opened her silent keyboard and spent the time practicing some of the pieces that she was to play in her concerts.

The stop stretched out far beyond its scheduled length, and eventually, she summoned the conductor and asked what the reason for the delay was. He apologetically explained that there an odd, unidentifiable, but vaguely rhythmic clacking noise had been noticed while the train was stopped, and that the crew was searching for the source of it, so that any mechanical problems could be dealt with while they were still at the station.

Mme.Schumann realized that the noise they were looking for had been the sound of the keys on her keyboard, and that her desire to while away the wait had made it even longer.

It is not recorded whether she told them this, but I would assume that she did, because the only thing that would make a train crew more nervous than an odd clacking noise that suddenly started would be one that suddenly started and then equally suddenly went away completely.

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