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Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 654
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He completed it, and then refused to complete it. After they finally did complete it, they realised it was complete in the first place
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 770
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He -- H?A?M?

Ditto for They?
1st they = 2nd they?

True story or FYOI?

When you say he was completing something was he building it? writing it? designing it?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are all the "it's" the same thing? If not, any chance of you telling us which match up to save an exhaustive and mildly tedious list of questions? :-)

Is the period of time over which this took place relevant? How long it took him to complete it - hours? days? weeks? months? years? How long after he refused to complete it did they complete it? hours? weeks? months? years?
"in the first place" - before he completed it? After he completed it but before he refused to complete it?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365:

He -- H?A?M? Yes to all

Ditto for They? Human and adult-mixed gender but can assume male if it helps
1st they = 2nd they? No

True story or FYOI? True

When you say he was completing something was he building it?No writing it?Yessish designing it?no

Bentarm:

are all the "it's" the same thing?They are If not, any chance of you telling us which match up to save an exhaustive and mildly tedious list of questions? :-) Now who would post a long and tedious list?<whistles>

Is the period of time over which this took place relevant?Yope How long it took him to complete it - hours? days? weeks? months? years?this one How long after he refused to complete it did they complete it? hours? weeks? months? years? Again this one
"in the first place" - before he completed it?no when he completed it After he completed it but before he refused to complete it?Correct
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1117
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When did this happen - 20th century? 19th? 18th? 17th? Middle Ages? Roman times? BC?
Was he still alive when they completed it? relevant?
Was there a time gap between "them1" completing it and "them2" realising that it had already been completed?
Was it in fact completed by him the first time?
Is he an architect? inventor? Is he well-known within his field? Outside? Is it likely I've heard of him?
Is it relevant where this happened? Europe? America? Asia? UK? US?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 665
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm:

When did this happen - 20th century?This one but... 19th? 18th? 17th? Middle Ages? Roman times? BC?no to rest
Was he still alive when they completed it?No relevant? Ish... don't think they would have completed it while he was alive
Was there a time gap between "them1" completing it and "them2" realising that it had already been completed? Yes...about 6 years
Was it in fact completed by him the first time?Yes
Is he an architect?No inventor?No Is he well-known within his field?Yes Outside?Yes Is it likely I've heard of him?I'm pretty sure you have
Is it relevant where this happened? Europe? This one America? Asia? UK?Some bits of the puzzle in this one US?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 985
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

after he first completed it, were there any changes between that and the second completion? and any differences between that completion and the completion that they did? did he complete it in his head? then for the second completion write it down? is it some kind of story? poem? any maths involved? physics?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 667
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

~Damia~:

after he first completed it, were there any changes between that and the second completion?changes to it? No and any differences between that completion and the completion that they did?Yessish did he complete it in his head?no then for the second completion write it down?No is it some kind of story?No poem?No any maths involved?noish physics?Yope
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1122
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a scientist? engineer? Is he British?
Is the "it" that they completed substantially the same as the "it" that he completed? Identical?
Is "it" written down? A physical entity?

To try and get the timeline: He spent years completing it - approximately how many years? 1? 2? 3?.. 10? 20? 30? 40? He then refused to complete it - immediately? years later?
Then, years later, "they1" completed it - how many years? 2? 3? 4? 10? 20? 30? 40?
Then, 6 years later "they2" realised that he had actually completed it in the first place. Did they realise this because they found something he'd written? Just because they reinterpreted something they'd always had?

Is the 2nd world war relevant? the atom bomb?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a scientist?no engineer?no Is he British? Yes
Is the "it" that they completed substantially the same as the "it" that he completed?they added something Identical? See previous answer...they did not alter what he had done
Is "it" written down?Yes...but be careful A physical entity?No

To try and get the timeline: He spent years completing it - approximately how many years? 1? 2?it took him a period of 2 years 3?.. 10? 20? 30? 40? He then refused to complete it - immediately? years later?14 years later
Then, years later, "they1" completed it - how many years? 2? 3? 4? 10? 20? 30? 40?actually 70
Then, 6 years later "they2" realised that he had actually completed it in the first place. Did they realise this because they found something he'd written?no Just because they reinterpreted something they'd always had? Yes ... be very very careful

Is the 2nd world war relevant?Simple answer...NO the atom bomb?No
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1125
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the first world war relevant? Any war?
Did he work for the government? The MoD (or one of the armed forces, if his work predated the establishment of the MoD?
Does the whole of this puzzle take place in the 20th century? If not, did "they1" complete it in the 20th century? 21st? Did "they2" realise that he had in fact completed it in the 20th century? 21st?
Did "they2" realise that the thing that they1 had added was unnecessary? That he had done something equivalent to this addition?
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 608
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is he one of they?
when he completed it, was it completed? was there some kind of action to "undo" completion?
is any technology relevant?
is he an inventor? did he complete something tangible?
is it programming?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 675
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm:

Is the first world war relevant?That is when it was written, but no real relevance to attach to the war Any war? No
Did he work for the government? The MoD (or one of the armed forces, if his work predated the establishment of the MoD? No and No
Does the whole of this puzzle take place in the 20th century?No If not, did "they1" complete it in the 20th century?disputable in 2000 21st?Yes Did "they2" realise that he had in fact completed it in the 20th century?No 21st? Yes
Did "they2" realise that the thing that they1 had added was unnecessary?Yes! That he had done something equivalent to this addition?no

is he one of they?no
when he completed it, was it completed?Yes was there some kind of action to "undo" completion?Noish
is any technology relevant? not directly
is he an inventor?No did he complete something tangible? No
is it programming?no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1130
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he work at a university? Was he an academic of any sort? Was he a professional author? Did he ever have anything published?
Did they1 work at a university? they2?
Are they1 british? they2?
Was it known that he had completed it? That he had refused to complete it?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 680
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he work at a university?Not a university... Was he an academic of any sort?Yes Was he a professional author?not an author as such.... no Did he ever have anything published? yes
Did they1 work at a university?No they2?\b{Yope}
Are they1 british?Yes they2?No... some of them were, but as a group no
Was it known that he had completed it?yes That he had refused to complete it?Yes
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he work at a school? a public school? Is he famous for having completed it? For some other reason? Does "it" have practical applications? In finance? In computing?
Did he refuse to complete it for moral reasons? Because he hadn't been paid?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he work at a school?Yes a public school?An independant School; also an adult Education College Is he famous for having completed it?fairly so yes For some other reason?it is his main claim to fame but not his only one Does "it" have practical applications?No In finance?No In computing?No
Did he refuse to complete it for moral reasons?No Because he hadn't been paid?No
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1134
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it any sort of art work? Does it involved any numbers? counting?
Had anyone else tried to complete it before him? Did he start it?
was he a teacher? headteacher? relevant what subjects he taughts? maths? english? physics? chemistry? history? home economics?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 684
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm:

Is it any sort of art work?Yes Does it involved any numbers?hmmm... no counting?no
Had anyone else tried to complete it before him?impossible Did he start it?yes
was he a teacher?yes but better known as something else headteacherno? relevant what subjects he taughts?very maths? english? physics? chemistry? history? home economics?none of these!
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 544
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is music?
Classical?
Rock?
Folk?
Country?
Relevant the actual work?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 545
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Music related to Schubert's Unfinished Symphony?
Hmmm..the timing is not right. Rediscovery of Schubert's unfinished symphony led to a flurry of interest in other lost, rejected, or unfinished works...is the item in the puzzle, perhaps, one of those?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 685
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wildcard:

It is music?Yes!
Classical? Yes
Rock?
Folk?
Country?
Relevant the actual work?Yes

Music related to Schubert's Unfinished Symphony?no
Hmmm..the timing is not right. Rediscovery of Schubert's unfinished symphony led to a flurry of interest in other lost, rejected, or unfinished works...is the item in the puzzle, perhaps, one of those?Not as far as I am aware no
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 546
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bruckner’s Ninth Symphony?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wildcard:

Bruckner’s Ninth Symphony?No... don't forget he started it, and completed it... and he was British!
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it completed in a non-standard form (e. g. 3-movement symphony)? Operatic?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo:

Was it completed in a non-standard form (e. g. 3-movement symphony)? Operatic?I think the naswer is no...but stand to be corrected...
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 548
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's see...Mahler is not British...*drums fingers*
Hmmmmm....I will have to do some digging online....I'm just not that familiar with 20th century British composers.....maybe Bodo can figure it out...
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 549
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he write a lot of pieces?
Is the piece in question a symphony?
Concerto?
Opera?
Other?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 688
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wildcard:

Let's see...Mahler is not British...*drums fingers* nope
Hmmmmm....I will have to do some digging online....I'm just not that familiar with 20th century British composers.....maybe Bodo can figure it out...I promise you , you know of this guy... name might be misleading, but he is British...Oh and don't go getting hooked on unfinished works...
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wildcard:

Did he write a lot of pieces? almost 200 cataloguewd compositions according to Wikipedia
Is the piece in question a symphony?
Concerto?
Opera?
Other?not to get myself hooked into misleading answers... an orchestral suite
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Uhhhh...Britten? Holst (wasn't he British?)?
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm starting to think this has to do with The Planets, maybe? Aha, the recent de-planetification of Pluto relevant?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm thankin Bodo got it on the nose...
Nice work there, Sparky.
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Took me a while to rememberificate Holst...only played some of his band stuff before (military suites and like that). He did a great band arrangement of Bach's Fugue a la Gigue (I think that's it, anyhow). I mean, with a name like Gustav Holst you don't usually think "Oh yeah, that sounds way British." Actually I like his stuff - I also like Percy Aldridge Grainger's stuff.
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 690
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Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

***********SPOILER************

Holst is the Man!

He completed the Planets suite in 1916, before the discovery of Pluto. When Pluto was discovered he refused to add a movement to the suite, feeling that the suite already took too much attention away from his other work.

In 2000 the Halle Orchestra, based in Manchester, commissioned "Pluto" to complete the suite, and this was done. However in 2006 the International Astronomical Union reclassified Pluto meaning that Gustav Holst's orginal work once again rang true....

Well done to all who took part, but especially to Wildcard and Bodo who ensured a swift solution....

Memo to self...avoid musical puzzles..these guys know way more than you do!

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