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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3215
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Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

American employers can be amazingly intrusive into their employees' personal lives, e.g., by firing employees who smoke off the job. But one American college under religious auspices has a faculty requirement so invasive as to be almost incredible. What is it??
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1057
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Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can they really fire people for smoking on their own time? If you'll forgive me that doesn't sound like the land of the free.

I'll ask what first came to my mind so please excuse me. Do they require that applicants are virgins?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1057
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Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 11:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Can they really fire people for smoking on their own time? If you'll forgive me that doesn't sound like the land of the free. Does any country live up to its slogans?? Does yours??

I'll ask what first came to my mind so please excuse me. Do they require that applicants are virgins?No. (How would they verify--oh, never mind)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They must go to a specific church? They may not go to any other?

Is it positive (the employee MUST do something) or negative (the employee must NOT do something)?
Travis (Travis)
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Post Number: 36
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Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant which college we're talking about?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1063
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Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does any country live up to its slogans?? Does yours?? I guess not. Fair comment!

Are the applicants required to abstain from something? eating something? alcohal?

Anything to do with dress ? hairstyle? other appearance aspects?
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Post Number: 706
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Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

More information about firing employees for smoking is here:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2005-05-11-smoke-usat_x.htm

---

Is it particularly invasive because...

...it regards something extremely personal? Does it regard health habits? sexual habits? personal relationships? personal finances?

...it requires privacy-invading monitoring in order to enforced? Is it actually enforced? Is it enforced by doing a background check? A polygraph test? Googling the person? Looking them up on Facebook or Myspace? Following them around all day? Encouraging people to rat on them?

...the requirements are extremely specific? something that very few people would satisfy? Or would be able to satisfy?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this involve:

sexuality?
sexual conduct?
financial status?
purchase of certain items?
credit card details?
religious history?
sleeping habits?
eating habits?
networking sites like Facebook?
the employee's history of posting at subversive puzzle sites?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1197
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Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, overlapped with some of Alex's questions there. I should read more carefully.
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the faculty have to be careful about what/who they...
Say?
Do?
Imbibe?
Interact with?
Keep as house pets?

Random: Are they not allowed to make any alcohol references, including expressions like "happy hour"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3220
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Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
They must go to a specific church?yesish , but that's not it. This is WORSE They may not go to any other? no

Is it positive (the employee MUST do something) or negative (the employee must NOT do something)? positive
Travis (Travis)
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Post Number: 36
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Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it relevant which college we're talking about? yes
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 1:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does any country live up to its slogans?? Does yours?? I guess not. Fair comment!

Are the applicants required to abstain from something? eating something? alcohal?

Anything to do with dress ? no hairstyle? no other appearance aspects? no
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Post Number: 706
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Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 9:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
More information about firing employees for smoking is here:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2005-05-11-smoke-usat_x.htm

---

Is it particularly invasive because...

...it regards something extremely personal? yesishDoes it regard health habits? no sexual habits? no personal relationships? yesish personal finances? no

...it requires privacy-invading monitoring in order to enforced?noish or yope Is it actually enforced? yes Is it enforced by doing a background check? no A polygraph test? no Googling the person? no Looking them up on Facebook or Myspace? no Following them around all day? no Encouraging people to rat on them? no

...the requirements are extremely specific? yes something that very few people would satisfy? no Or would be able to satisfy? no
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Username: Woodworm

Post Number: 1196
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Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 10:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does this involve:

sexuality? no
sexual conduct? no
financial status?
purchase of certain items? no
credit card details? no
religious history? no
sleeping habits? no
eating habits? no
networking sites like Facebook? no
the employee's history of posting at subversive puzzle sites?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Username: Woodworm

Post Number: 1197
Registered: 3-2006

Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 10:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Oops, overlapped with some of Alex's questions there. I should read more carefully.
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Username: Dlcygnet

Post Number: 1243
Registered: 6-2005

Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 7:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Do the faculty have to be careful about what/who they...
Say? no
Do? yes
Imbibe? no
Interact with? yesish
Keep as house pets? no

Random: Are they not allowed to make any alcohol references, including expressions like "happy hour"? no
Travis (Travis)
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Username: Travis

Post Number: 42
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bob Jones University? Hyles-Anderson Bible College?
Is it in [insert list of US states here]?
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Post Number: 708
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Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 1:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pensacola Christian College?

Does the restriction specifically have to do with their religious activities? Do they have to go to a specific church and do something else? Do they have to go a certain number of times a week? month? year? Do they have to pray in a certain way? Observe a certain tenet of their religion? Is this a Christian college? Or some other religion?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Travis (Travis)
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Post Number: 42
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Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 11:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Bob Jones University? Hyles-Anderson Bible College?
Is it in [insert list of US states here]?\[Michigan--but it won't be interesting to solve if you just find out the school by yes/no answers & look up its regulations}
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Post Number: 708
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Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 1:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Pensacola Christian College?

Does the restriction specifically have to do with their religious activities? yes Do they have to go to a specific church yes and do something else? The somethin g else is what's relevant Do they have to go a certain number of times a week? irrel month? ditto year? ditto Do they have to pray in a certain way? ditto Observe a certain tenet of their religion?I'm not sure if this is an actual tenet of the religion Is this a Christian college? yes Or some other religion? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 3:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Travis (Travis)
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Username: Travis

Post Number: 42
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Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 11:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Bob Jones University? Hyles-Anderson Bible College?
Is it in [insert list of US states here]?Michigan--but it won't be interesting to solve if you just find out the school by yes/no answers & look up its regulations
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Post Number: 708
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Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 1:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Pensacola Christian College? no
Alex319 (Alex319)
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Post Number: 709
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Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "something else"...

...is it something they do as part of a religious observance? while they're at church? at home? at school? in the classroom?

...does it involve doing something with someone else? a particular person? a person appointed by the school? a person with a particular religious position (preacher, pastor etc.)? a person with a specific relationship to the faculty member? A spouse? Other family member
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Post Number: 459
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Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

IS the Christian Reformed Church (CRC) relevant?
If so, I think the college in question would be Calvin college were the faculty requirements are quite stringent; here is a summary:

Requirements

1. Signing the Form of Subscription: Calvin College faculty members are required to sign a synodically approved Form of Subscription in which they affirm the three forms of unity--the Belgic Confession, the Heidelberg Catechism, and the Canons of Dortrecht -- and pledge to teach, speak, and write in harmony with the confessions.

2. Church Membership: Calvin College faculty members are required to be professing members in good standing and active participants in the life, worship, and activities of a Christian Reformed Church (CRC) or of any church which is a member of a denomination in ecclesiastical fellowship with the CRC as defined by its Synod.

The CRC has established ecclesiastical fellowship with twenty-two denominations worldwide. The North American churches are the Reformed Church of America (RCA), the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA), the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC), the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC), the Reformed Presbyterian Church (RPC), the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, and the Korean American Presbyterian Church.

3. Christian schooling: Calvin College faculty members are normally required to provide -their children with Christian schooling.

The requirement is applicable to grades K through 12. Christian schools that are members of Christian Schools International are expected to be the primary schools of choice for faculty. However, home schooling and sending children to other schools that base their education on the Christian faith could also fulfill the requirement when approved on an individual basis.


Phew...
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3225
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Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Post Number: 459
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Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 4:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
IS the Christian Reformed Church (CRC) relevant?
If so, I think the college in question would be Calvin college were the faculty requirements are quite stringent; here is a summary:

Requirements

1. Signing the Form of Subscription: Calvin College faculty members are required to sign a synodically approved Form of Subscription in which they affirm the three forms of unity--the Belgic Confession, the Heidelberg Catechism, and the Canons of Dortrecht -- and pledge to teach, speak, and write in harmony with the confessions.

2. Church Membership: Calvin College faculty members are required to be professing members in good standing and active participants in the life, worship, and activities of a Christian Reformed Church (CRC) or of any church which is a member of a denomination in ecclesiastical fellowship with the CRC as defined by its Synod.

The CRC has established ecclesiastical fellowship with twenty-two denominations worldwide. The North American churches are the Reformed Church of America (RCA), the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA), the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC), the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC), the Reformed Presbyterian Church (RPC), the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, and the Korean American Presbyterian Church.

3. Christian schooling: Calvin College faculty members are normally required to provide -their children with Christian schooling.

The requirement is applicable to grades K through 12. Christian schools that are members of Christian Schools International are expected to be the primary schools of choice for faculty. However, home schooling and sending children to other schools that base their education on the Christian faith could also fulfill the requirement when approved on an individual basis. That's it!! This illustrartes the problem of identifying the school & looking up its requirements--the "puzzle" aspect is lost

*********** SPOILER****************
Think you've heard everything? Calvin College in Michigan requires that all faculty members give their xchildren a Christian education. Talk about intruvsiveness..... Please check out my new puzzle



Phew

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