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Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm so glad I found a forum for puzzles like this! This is one of my favorites:

If he were one year younger, he would still be alive.

For purposes of this puzzle, let's call him Ben, so we don't have to keep referring to him as him.
Unleashedllama (Unleashedllama)
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Post Number: 142
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ben = human/adult/male?

Would he still be alive if he were:
1 day younger?
1 week younger?
1 month younger?
11 months younger?
364 days younger?
2 years younger?

Did he die from natural causes? accident? murder? suicide? other?
Unleashedllama (Unleashedllama)
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Post Number: 143
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Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ben = human/adult/male?

Would he still be alive if he were:
1 day younger?
1 week younger?
1 month younger?
11 months younger?
364 days younger?
2 years younger?

Did he die from natural causes? accident? murder? suicide? other?
Unleashedllama (Unleashedllama)
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Post Number: 144
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry about the double post, my computer's playing up.
Unleashedllama (Unleashedllama)
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Post Number: 145
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Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry about the double post, my computer's playing up.
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Post Number: 195
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 3:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ben's exact age at death relevant?
As we are calling 'him' Ben I assume this implies both "he"s = Ben?
And assuming Ben/he is male (:P), could Ben have been female and in the same situation?

Was something invented/ a law introduced/ similar that would have saved his live/ prevented his death, a year after his death?
Was there something that could have saved his life/prevented his death that already existed for people 1 year younger than himself?

Was it an improbable event that took his life?
Did Ben die as the result of being in a situation that he could have avoided by other means than being a year younger?
His location when he died relevant?

Would Ben have died if he were any age older than he was?
- Does the probability of Ben finding himself in the situation from which he died increase with age, onward from his age at death? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible?
- Given that Ben finds himself in the situation from which he died, does the probability of him dying increase with age, onward from his age at death? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible?
- Does the probability of Ben finding himself in the situation from which he died increase with age, from birth upto his age at death minus a year? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible?
- Given that Ben finds himself in the situation from which he died, does the probability of him dying increase with age, from birth upto his age at death minus a year? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible?
- Does the probability of Ben finding himself in the situation from which he died increase with age, from from his age at death minus a year to his age at death? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible?
- Given that Ben finds himself in the situation from which he died, does the probability of him dying increase with age, from his age at death minus a year to his age at death? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible?

May we introduce an alternate timeline in which Ben IS a year younger and to avoid confusion may we rename this second Ben, Adam?
If so: Assuming Adam makes all the same decisions as Ben, could he have found himself in a similar situation? That he survives?
(If the answers to those are positive my thinking is we could explore the differences between Adam's and Ben's situations and work out how those differences relate to their ages.)

Other people relevant? If so: relevant how many exactly? the ages of any or all? the gender of any or all?

Was Ben alone when he died? relevant?
Rubberduck (Rubberduck)
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Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 6:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ben die? Or in fact is been still alive, so he naturally would have been alive when he was a a year younger?
Rubberduck (Rubberduck)
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Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 6:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Correction to last post: second question should read "...is Ben still alive..."
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If he were a year younger, would it be last year and hence he would still be alive?
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Post Number: 201
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Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Welcome to the forum by the way. (: Don't worry, it's not always this many questions to answer at once. :P
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Post Number: 4
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Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ben = human/adult/male? yes no yes

Would he still be alive if he were:
1 day younger? no
1 week younger? no
1 month younger? probably somewhere between here
11 months younger? and here
364 days younger? yes
2 years younger? yes

Did he die from natural causes? accident? most closely this onemurder? suicide? other?

Ben's exact age at death relevant? sort of, but explore this a bit further.
As we are calling 'him' Ben I assume this implies both "he"s = Ben? yes
And assuming Ben/he is male (:P)hey, don't sass me, could Ben have been female and in the same situation? yes

Was something invented/ a law introduced/ similar that would have saved his live/ prevented his death, a year after his death?
Was there something that could have saved his life/prevented his death that already existed for people 1 year younger than himself? none of this

Was it an improbable event that took his life? gah, I don't know how to answer that, but I believe that I have to say it was indeed an improbable event.
Did Ben die as the result of being in a situation that he could have avoided by other means than being a year younger? yes
His location when he died relevant? {not relevant to solving the puzzle but it couldn't have happened the way that it happened anywhere else.}

Would Ben have died if he were any age older than he was? tough question to answer without giving to much away, but let me just say that he could have died by the same means had he been any older, but the situation would be different.
- Does the probability of Ben finding himself in the situation from which he died increase with age, onward from his age at death? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible?
- Given that Ben finds himself in the situation from which he died, does the probability of him dying increase with age, onward from his age at death? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible?
- Does the probability of Ben finding himself in the situation from which he died increase with age, from birth upto his age at death minus a year? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible?
- Given that Ben finds himself in the situation from which he died, does the probability of him dying increase with age, from birth upto his age at death minus a year? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible?
- Does the probability of Ben finding himself in the situation from which he died increase with age, from from his age at death minus a year to his age at death? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible?
- Given that Ben finds himself in the situation from which he died, does the probability of him dying increase with age, from his age at death minus a year to his age at death? decrease? increase then decrease? decrease then increase? stay constant? impossible to say? If constant: certain? likely? unlikely? impossible? i can't answer yes to any of this, you're assuming that the probability of his death in this situation is a continuum, as opposed to a random dependant of his age

May we introduce an alternate timeline in which Ben IS a year younger and to avoid confusion may we rename this second Ben, Adam?
If so: Assuming Adam makes all the same decisions as Ben, could he have found himself in a similar situation? That he survives? yes to both, and excellent questions
(If the answers to those are positive my thinking is we could explore the differences between Adam's and Ben's situations and work out how those differences relate to their ages.) have at it, but not too fast, I'm hoping to have this puzzle last at least a day or two.

Other people relevant? yes If so: relevant how many exactly? the ages of any or all? the gender of any or all? none of these things, though

Was Ben alone when he died? no relevant? yes

Did Ben die? yes, he died, but good thinking Or in fact is been still alive, so he naturally would have been alive when he was a a year younger?

If he were a year younger, would it be last year and hence he would still be alive? haha, no, but these are both really good and funny solutions
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is being drafted relevant? obtaining a drivers licence? Is the availablility of healthcare relevant?

Was Ben under 10? teenager? in his 20s? 30s? 40s? 50s? 60s? 70s? 80s? 90s? older?

Was Ben killed instantly? Is this relevant?

Is ben's (assuming he has one) occupation relevant?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 4:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is being drafted relevant? obtaining a drivers licence? Is the availablility of healthcare relevant? none of this

Was Ben under 10? teenager? this
in his 20s? 30s? 40s? 50s? 60s? 70s? 80s? 90s? older?

Was Ben killed instantly? no Is this relevant? yes

Is ben's (assuming he has one) occupation relevant? no
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 47
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Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is school grade level relevant?

Would the "threshold" age (under which Ben would have lived) differ if Ben were living in a different country? Would it differ between people living in the same city? In the same residence? Are age-based laws (you must be X years old to do Y) relevant at all?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is school grade level relevant? yes, good question

Would the "threshold" age (under which Ben would have lived) differ if Ben were living in a different country? no Would it differ between people living in the same city? false asumption In the same residence? Are age-based laws (you must be X years old to do Y) relevant at all? no
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 4:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the FA that he was living in a city? By "city", I just meant a city, town, or equivalent municipality.

Also, two things you say seem to contradict each other. You say that school grade level is relevant, but that the "magic" age does not differ between countries. Seeing as many countries have quite different educational systems (with different numbers of years being mandatory, graduations at different ages, etc.), I have difficulty seeing how this is possible.

Is it therefore the number of years spent in school that is relevant, as opposed to the actual status attained (e.g. Ben could die because he had finished high school)?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 6:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the FA that he was living in a city? noBy "city", I just meant a city, town, or equivalent municipality.

Also, two things you say seem to contradict each other. You say that school grade level is relevant, but that the "magic" age does not differ between countries. Seeing as many countries have quite different educational systems (with different numbers of years being mandatory, graduations at different ages, etc.), I have difficulty seeing how this is possible. that's because you don't know the solution. I wish I could explain without giving too much away.

Is it therefore the number of years spent in school that is relevant this is closest , as opposed to the actual status attained (e.g. Ben could die because he had finished high school)?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 7:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*********************RECAP*******************
A human, teenaged, male died of some sort of accident. If he had been in the same situation when he were a year younger, he would not have died. His grade is relevant, and there are some other relevant parties involved.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the other relevant parties classmates? Teachers? His parents?

As for the FA, was it that the accident happened in a different city from the one in which he lived, meaning the question was ambiguous?

Since grade level, but not educational system, was relevant, does this puzzle have anything to do with the number of digits in the grade changing when he changed from 9th to 10th grade? Did this lead to something being written or read incorrectly? That still might vary in age depending on where he lived but is less likely.
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 5:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the other relevant parties classmates? Teachers? somewhat this, but there is moreHis parents?

As for the FA, was it that the accident happened in a different city from the one in which he lived, meaning the question was ambiguous? no

Since grade level, but not educational system, was relevant, does this puzzle have anything to do with the number of digits in the grade changing when he changed from 9th to 10th grade? exactly
Did this lead to something being written or read incorrectly? sort of, but explore a bit further, and it's the last piece of the puzzle That still might vary in age depending on where he lived but is less likely.
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 5:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the other relevant parties classmates? Teachers? somewhat this, but there is moreHis parents?

As for the FA, was it that the accident happened in a different city from the one in which he lived, meaning the question was ambiguous? no

Since grade level, but not educational system, was relevant, does this puzzle have anything to do with the number of digits in the grade changing when he changed from 9th to 10th grade? exactly
Did this lead to something being written or read incorrectly? sort of, but explore a bit further, and it's the last piece of the puzzle That still might vary in age depending on where he lived but is less likely.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 8:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, so the thing about the digits is right! I was kind of led to it by process of elimination, but it still seemed to be a wild guess. Anyway...

So when the grade having two digits resulted in an accident, was the number:
Hand-written?
Typed on a piece of paper?
On a computer screen?

As to the place where it appeared, was it:
On a form of personal identification?
On a transcript or similar document showing academic performance?
Elsewhere in Ben's school's records?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, so the thing about the digits is right! I was kind of led to it by process of elimination, but it still seemed to be a wild guess. call it a quantam leap, then everyone will think you're brilliant Anyway...

So when the grade having two digits resulted in an accident, was the number:
Hand-written?
Typed on a piece of paper? this
On a computer screen?

As to the place where it appeared, was it:
On a form of personal identification?
On a transcript or similar document showing academic performance?
Elsewhere in Ben's school's records? this, most likely
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, so the thing about the digits is right! I was kind of led to it by process of elimination, but it still seemed to be a wild guess. call it a quantam leap, then everyone will think you're brilliant Anyway...

So when the grade having two digits resulted in an accident, was the number:
Hand-written?
Typed on a piece of paper? this
On a computer screen?

As to the place where it appeared, was it:
On a form of personal identification?
On a transcript or similar document showing academic performance?
Elsewhere in Ben's school's records? this, most likely
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 3:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

call it a quantam leap, then everyone will think you're brilliant
I actually took 2 semesters of quantum mechanics, so maybe this would be fitting :-)

Did the accident happen at school?

Did the accident actually occur as a result of the number written on the piece of paper (or something connected with it), or would it have otherwise happened but not have been fatal?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 5:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I actually took 2 semesters of quantum mechanics, so maybe this would be fitting :-) and I spelled it atrociously wrong. Go Will!

Did the accident happen at school? no

Did the accident actually occur as a result of the number written on the piece of paper (or something connected with it), or would it have otherwise happened but not have been fatal? yes
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 5:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it have not been fatal because he would have been taken to a hospital sooner after the accident?

If so, would it have been because someone would have been present to intervene, who was not present for some reason because Ben was in 10th grade?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 6:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it have not been fatal because he would have been taken to a hospital sooner after the accident? no

If so, would it have been because someone would have been present to intervene, who was not present for some reason because Ben was in 10th grade? no
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 6:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the accident have been fatal if the piece of paper with the grade written on it did not exist at all?

Would the accident have resulted in any injuries whatsoever had Ben still been in 9th grade? Injuries requiring the care of a doctor to heal?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 5:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the accident have been fatal if the piece of paper with the grade written on it did not exist at all? difficult to answer because the absence of the paper would change the situation entirely

Would the accident have resulted in any injuries whatsoever had Ben still been in 9th grade? yes
Injuries requiring the care of a doctor to heal? yes
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 7:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the doctor(s) who were treating these injuries have ever seen the piece of paper with the typed grade number? Had someone read it to them? Been aware of what was written on it in some other manner?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 5:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the doctor(s) who were treating these injuries have ever seen the piece of paper with the typed grade number? they did see it, however, something about the grade caused them to miss something important
Had someone read it to them? possibly, but irrel. anyone who saw it would have missed it
Been aware of what was written on it in some other manner? this piece of paper is the only way they can be informed of the vital information, assuming Ben is incapacitated
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 5:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So I assume the paper had some information on it that was critical for administering proper medical care:

Could the information on the paper be considered a medical record of some type?

Did Ben die of his original injury, which was not treated satisfactorily? Or did he die from complications of a treatment that would have been contraindicated based on something on the sheet of paper?

Was the paper misread because the zero of the "10" covered something up? Because the longer number caused a line of text to be wrapped differently, taking up an extra line where something else should have been written?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 6:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So I assume the paper had some information on it that was critical for administering proper medical care:

Could the information on the paper be considered a medical record of some type? yes

Did Ben die of his original injury, which was not treated satisfactorily? Or did he die from complications of a treatment that would have been contraindicated based on something on the sheet of paper? this one

Was the paper misread because the zero of the "10" covered something up? Because the longer number caused a line of text to be wrapped differently, taking up an extra line where something else should have been written? this is pretty much dead on

*****SPOILER******
Ben is on a class trip when he suffers from a heart attack. EMT's arrive on the scene just in time, but upon looking at his school dossiers, they do not realize that there is an important allergy listed, and administer a treatment that kills Ben due to allergic shock. The reason that they did not see the listing is because it was listed at the bottom of the paper, underneath all of Ben's other information. When ben graduated into 10th grade, the second digit cause a word wrap, and the allergy to be listed on a different page. in printing hundreds of the files, school administrators did not notice that there was a single line on one piece of paper, and th elisting of the allergy was not in Ben's dossiers.

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