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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 6:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Her husband had only an apple to eat. Why did she order him red wine to go with it?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting puzzle statement!!!

Is the title relevant?

Her = She?

Husband = Him

All parties H? A? M/F?

Location relevant? A restaurant?

I have a strange feeling there's a delicious pun involved here am I otrt?

Any relevant songs? films? books? Mondegreens?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting puzzle statement!!! Thank you.

Is the title relevant? Yes.

Her = She? Yes.

Husband = Him Yes.

All parties H? Yes. A? Yes. M/F? Except for her, all male.

Location relevant? Yes. A restaurant? No.

I have a strange feeling there's a delicious pun involved here am I otrt? Sorry, but no!

Any relevant songs? films? books? Mondegreens? No to all.
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the apple poisoned? Is the wine poisoned?

North of the Border = Canada? Scotland? Korea? Other?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the apple poisoned? No. Is the wine poisoned? No.

North of the Border = Canada? Scotland? This. Korea? Other?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this an apple that grows on a tree and is edible? Red Wine as in the drink made from grapes?

Would this puzzle only work in Scotland or is that simply where this took place?

True Story? FYOI?

Any other people involved? Crimes? Occupations?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 4:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this an apple that grows on a tree and is edible? Yes. Red Wine as in the drink made from grapes? No.

Would this puzzle only work in Scotland or is that simply where this took place? It took place there but could work elsewhere with modifications.

True Story? Unknown, irrelevant. FYOI? No.

Any other people involved? Yes. Crimes? Yes. Occupations? Yope.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a particular type/colour of apple?

Is the red wine a liquid? It's not vinegar is it? Anything to do with Glasgows reputation for deep frying strange foods? I've heard they deep fry pizzas and Mars Bars. Any of this relevant?

Was the crime murder? theft? burglary? sex crime? drugs? Copyright crime?

Was the husband in prison?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a particular type/colour of apple? The type of apple is irrelevant.

Is the red wine a liquid? Yes. It's not vinegar is it? No. Anything to do with Glasgows reputation for deep frying strange foods? I've heard they deep fry pizzas and Mars Bars. Any of this relevant? No.

Was the crime murder? This. theft? burglary? sex crime? drugs? Copyright crime?

Was the husband in prison? No.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is the Husband the murderer? The wife?

Relevant who they killed? motive relevant? Greed? Lust? Revenge?

Was the wife (can we call her Eve) trying to save her husband (can we call him Adam - to keep up the apple theme)? trying to incriminate him? give him an alibi? trying to kill him?

Was the liquid supposed to remove an item of evidence e.g. a stain?

Does the liquid share a similar name with a wine label?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is the Husband the murderer? No. The wife? No.

Relevant who they killed? Rephrase. motive relevant? Yes. Greed? No. Lust? No. Revenge? Yes.

Was the wife (can we call her Eve OK) trying to save her husband (can we call him Adam - to keep up the apple theme OK)? No. trying to incriminate him? No. give him an alibi? No. trying to kill him? No.

Was the liquid supposed to remove an item of evidence e.g. a stain? No.

Does the liquid share a similar name with a wine label? No.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Eve "ordering" from a person? The murderer? Was she aware of the murder? Was Adam?
Are the couple present in the same room when the ordering takes place? If so, their home? Someone else's? Is it relevant that he was eating an apple, or could he just have easily had nothing?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Eve "ordering" from a person? Yes. The murderer? No. Was she aware of the murder? Yes. Was Adam? Yes.
Are the couple present in the same room when the ordering takes place? Yes. If so, their home? Yes. Someone else's?
No. Is it relevant that he was eating an apple, or could he just have easily had nothing? It's relevant.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 2:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she ordering from a butler/servant? Over the phone?
Does she expect anything to be delivered/given to Adam? If so, water? Blood? A drinkable beverage? Is ordering it a signal? Can she speak freely to her husband?

Was the wife against the murder? Supportive of it? And was the husband against or pro-murder? Does the ordering happen before the murder? After?
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 6:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RW = Red Wine

Is the RW an alcoholic beverage?
Did she mean for Adam to drink the RW?

Let's use the act of ordering the RW as a reference in time.
Did the murder occur before it? after it? at the same time?
The party that was murdered - H? A? M?
The murderer - H? A? M?

So basically there are 5 essential people involved? Adam, Eve, who Eve ordered from, the murderer and the victim.

Unless of course the person Eve ordered from was the victim?
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 6:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Afterthought - I know you said the type of apple was irrelevant, but is something magical or mythical involved? Such as a golden apple?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she ordering from a butler/servant? Yes. Over the phone? No.
Does she expect anything to be delivered/given to Adam? Yope. If so, water? No. Blood? Yes. A drinkable beverage? Irrelevant. Is ordering it a signal? Yes. Can she speak freely to her husband? Yope.

Was the wife against the murder? Yes. Supportive of it? No. And was the husband against or pro-murder? Against. Does the ordering happen before the murder? After? This.

RW = Red Wine

Is the RW an alcoholic beverage? No.
Did she mean for Adam to drink the RW? No.

Let's use the act of ordering the RW as a reference in time. OK.
Did the murder occur before it? This. after it? at the same time?
The party that was murdered - H? A? M? All three.
The murderer - H? A? M? All three.

So basically there are 5 essential people involved? Adam, Eve, who Eve ordered from, the murderer and the victim. No.

Unless of course the person Eve ordered from was the victim? No.

Afterthought - I know you said the type of apple was irrelevant, but is something magical or mythical involved? Such as a golden apple? No, the apple is ordinary and edible.
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So she orders blood to be transfused to Adam? Does Adam need it because he is unwell? Is the blood from the victim? Was he murdered in order to get the blood?

Is Adam incapacitated or ailing in any way at all?

Did Adam eat the apple? Did the blood arrive after he had eaten the apple?

Was the murderer in any way acquainted or related to Adam or Eve? The victim?

If not, was the murder an unrelated incident which indirectly lead to Eve's actions?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So she orders blood to be transfused to Adam? No. Does Adam need it because he is unwell? No. Is the blood from the victim? No. Was he murdered in order to get the blood? No.

Is Adam incapacitated or ailing in any way at all? Yes.

Did Adam eat the apple? No. Did the blood arrive after he had eaten the apple? Rephrase.

Was the murderer in any way acquainted or related to Adam or Eve? Not at the time of the murder. The victim? Assume no.

If not, was the murder an unrelated incident which indirectly lead to Eve's actions? No.
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Adam physically incapacitated? If so - externally? or due to some medical problem?

Is he asleep? in a coma? unconscious? hypnotised?

Is the blood she ordered human blood? If so, Eve's? the Butler's? Adam's?

Did the murder occur in the same room that Adam and Eve are in? Nearby? Somewhere else and they just happened to hear about it?

The murderer an ex-spouse perhaps?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, Adam is the murder victim? He's now dead?

Is the butler involved in any way other than being ordered and bringing things--normal butling =)?

Is this from a book? Movie? Play? Fable/Story? FYOI?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 12:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Adam physically incapacitated? You could say that. If so - externally? If by that you mean something visible, yes. or due to some medical problem? Well, technically... ;p

Is he asleep? in a coma? unconscious? hypnotised? None of the above.

Is the blood she ordered human blood? Yes. If so, Eve's? the Butler's? Adam's? None of the above.

Did the murder occur in the same room that Adam and Eve are in? No. Nearby? Yes. Somewhere else and they just happened to hear about it? No.

The murderer an ex-spouse perhaps? No.

So, Adam is the murder victim? Yes. He's now dead? Yes.

Is the butler involved in any way other than being ordered and bringing things--normal butling =)? Yes.

Is this from a book? Movie? Play? Fable/Story? FYOI? Short-short story, pulled from a book.
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


quote:

All parties H? Yes. A? Yes. M/F? Except for her, all male.




Is A - Adult or Alive? Bcoz for some reason I thought it meant Alive. (Otherwise it would have been obvious to me that Adam was the murdered one.)

Okay a rather strange possibility was that the apple was in Adam's dead mouth like a stuffed pig? Or not (lol).
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is A - Adult or Alive? Bcoz for some reason I thought it meant Alive. (Otherwise it would have been obvious to me that Adam was the murdered one.) It stands for "Adult."

Okay a rather strange possibility was that the apple was in Adam's dead mouth like a stuffed pig? Or not (lol). Actually, it is! Exactly like a stuffed pig! Good work!
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow! Talk about a random guess :-D

Cannibalism relevant?
Was Adam arranged in that oinky way by the murderer? Eve? the butler?
Is the "red wine" to be placed in a tall glass next to our porky pal to complete the macabre image?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cannibalism relevant? No.
Was Adam arranged in that oinky way by the murderer? Yes. Eve? No. the butler? No.
Is the "red wine" to be placed in a tall glass next to our porky pal to complete the macabre image? No.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she asking for the murderer's blood?

Is Eve intending to do anything with the blood? If so, drink it? Give it to her husband? Spill it in some way? Does she want it to arrive in a certain container?

Is anyone else involved? A family member? A lover? Is the butler being asked to kill someone?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she asking for the murderer's blood? Yes.

Is Eve intending to do anything with the blood? No. If so, drink it? No. Give it to her husband? No. Spill it in some way? No. Does she want it to arrive in a certain container? No.

Is anyone else involved? Yes, but you've gotten all the key ones. There are multiple murderers and servants involved, but it could just as well be one of each. A family member? No. A lover? No. Is the butler being asked to kill someone? Yes.
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Eve sits down in her own home? for dinner? and then her husband is bought to her dead and prepared like a roast hog?
Was Eve aware of Adam's murder before she saw him?
Was the Butler aware of Adam's murder before he saw him? before Eve?
Was Adam brought to the table inside one of those large covered dishes?
Did Eve know who the murderer was when she saw Adam?
Did the Butler know who the murderer was when he saw Adam?
Was the murder a cook perhaps? kitchenstaff? servant of some description? friend? stranger? other?
Eve asked the Butler to bring a glass of 'red wine' rather than directly instruct him to murder for fear of being overheard? perhaps warning the murderer?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Eve sits down in her own home? Yes. for dinner? No. and then her husband is bought to her dead and prepared like a roast hog? Yes.
Was Eve aware of Adam's murder before she saw him? No.
Was the Butler aware of Adam's murder before he saw him? No. before Eve? No.
Was Adam brought to the table inside one of those large covered dishes? No.
Did Eve know who the murderer was when she saw Adam? Yes.
Did the Butler know who the murderer was when he saw Adam? Yes.
Was the murder a cook perhaps? No. kitchenstaff? No. servant of some description? No. friend? No. stranger? Yes. other?
Eve asked the Butler to bring a glass of 'red wine' rather than directly instruct him to murder for fear of being overheard? No. perhaps warning the murderer? No.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This reminds me of that film "The cook the thief his wife and her lover". although in that the lover is killed by her jealous husband and then cooked like a stuffed pig (although i think the wife arranged the cooking bit). is the film relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the film relevant? No. I've never seen it. The husband is not cooked, btw.
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Feuding clans involved?
Did the murderer subsequently take Eve as his wife? against her will?
Was Adam brought in by one of his own servants/ clansmen? By the murderer? Somone associated with the murderer?
Does the butler in fact kill the person Eve wanted killed? Is the butler killed?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Feuding clans involved? Yes.
Did the murderer subsequently take Eve as his wife? No. against her will?
Was Adam brought in by one of his own servants/ clansmen? No. By the murderer? Yes. Somone associated with the murderer?
Does the butler in fact kill the person Eve wanted killed? Yes. Is the butler killed? No.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hint: Remember, her statement was a signal.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the way she phrases it tell the butler who to kill? How to kill them?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the way she phrases it tell the butler who to kill? No. How to kill them? No.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry if I'm confused...Is there a reason she had to give a signal rather than say outright what she desired? Was it simply more concise to order red wine? Is she signaling the butler?

Her husband's ghost involved? Does she believe there is a ghost?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry if I'm confused...Is there a reason she had to give a signal rather than say outright what she desired? Not really. Was it simply more concise to order red wine? I think she just had a poetic soul. Is she signaling the butler? Yes.

Her husband's ghost involved? Does she believe there is a ghost? Perhaps.

Spoiler...

********

The following is a short-short story by the late George MacDonald Fraser.

There is a story they tell in Breadalbane:

Gordon of Achruach was at feud with Campbell of Kentallan, who hired certain Gregora, landless men, who took the Gordon unawares while he was hunting in the Mamore. And they cut off his head and put it in a bag to show the Campbell that the work was done. That was the way of it.

And as they fared for Kentallan, the Gregora came by the Gordon's door at Achruach, and went in, and the Gordon's wife (little knowing she was a widow) bade them to table, as the custom is, and went out for the Athol brose. And while she was gone the Gregora winked at one another, and set the Gordon's head on a dish, with an apple in the mouth, to see what the good wife would make of it. That is the Gregora for you, hell mend the black pack of them.

And the good wife came in, and saw her man's head bloody on the board, but kept her countenance and said never a word, only smiled on the Gregora and bade them good cheer. The Gregora wondered at this. Has she not seen it? was in the mind of each of them. Still looked she never on the head, but said a word to her ghillie and sent him forth. And smiling on the Gregora, she told them a tale, never looking at the head, and held them spellbound, for she was great at the stories, and very fair besides. The Gregora wondered, has she not seen it yet? This is not canny, was in their minds, and they said they must be for the road, but she held them there by her tale and her presence, and so they bided whether they would or no. That was the way of it.

And still she spoke and looked not on the head, until the ghillie returned with her men of Achruach, who came in swift and sudden and stood behind the Gregora seated, one to one, and each Gordon with his dirk at a dirty Gregora neck. And she told on till the tale was done - aye, she was great at the stories - and then said she: "I see my man has come home, and has but an apple to eat. Give him to drink also, wine red and warm." And at her word they slew the Gregora where they sat, and the red blood ran. That was the way of it.

And the ghillie said: "Oh, mistress, how did you keep your countenance this long while in the presence of yon fell thing, and beguile these stark men?" And she answered, "The day I cannot keep my countenance, and hold men in their place and work my will on them, that is a day you will never see."

That was the way of it. That was a woman of the Gordons for you.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 2:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ooh, creepy and good. I remember now that I've read a slightly different version of it in a graphic novel.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 4:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'd love to know which graphic novel. I like this version because Fraser was remarkably good at writing atmospherics and language. You can almost hear the Scottish accent in the words.

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