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Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 3410
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dawn has a repellant & inexcusable moral flaw, but it is making her a morally better person. How come??
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 1183
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the flaw connected to:
Selfishness?
Greed?
Unkindness?
Hypocrisy?
Rudeness?

Does the flaw lead Dawn to actively try to be better morally? Or does it just have that effect without her trying?

Does the flaw make people dislike Dawn? Would it be obvious if you talked to her for a while? Or would you need to know her better to notice it?

Does she know she has this flaw? Does she wish she didn't? Does she try to compensate for it by being extra nice in other ways? Or by trying to correct the flaw? Is she more understaning of other's laws because of it?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1184
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That last sentence should read "understanding of other's flaws", sorry.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3413
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Post Number: 1183
Registered: 4-2007

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 11:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the flaw connected to:
Selfishness? no
Greed? no
Unkindness? yope
Hypocrisy? no
Rudeness? no

Does the flaw lead Dawn to actively try to be better morally? no Or does it just have that effect without her trying? yes

Does the flaw make people dislike Dawn? yope Would it be obvious if you talked to her for a while? possibly Or would you need to know her better to notice it? ditto

Does she know she has this flaw? irrel Does she wish she didn't? ditto Does she try to compensate for it by being extra nice in other ways? noOr by trying to correct the flaw? irrel Is she more understaning of other's laws because of it? irrel
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Username: Woodworm

Post Number: 1326
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a racist? A homophobe? An ailurophobe?
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 39
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the flaw make some people like Dawn? if so: are they all like-minded individuals?
Does the flaw make some people dislike Dawn? if so: are they all potentially negatively effected personally by the flaw?
Are some people indifferent to Dawn and her flaw?
Would the majority of people care/ have an opinion one way or the other regarding Dawn's flaw?

Is the flaw related to wishing particular people/things dead?

Is it possible to have this flaw without acting on it? Does Dawn act on her flaw?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 3418
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1326
Registered: 3-2006

Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 11:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is she a racist? yesish or yope A homophobe? no An ailurophobe? no
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 39
Registered: 5-2008

Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 1:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the flaw make some people like Dawn? yes if so: are they all like-minded individuals? yes
Does the flaw make some people dislike Dawn? yes if so: are they all potentially negatively effected personally by the flaw? no
Are some people indifferent to Dawn and her flaw?
Would the majority of people care/ have an opinion one way or the other regarding Dawn's flaw? yes

Is the flaw related to wishing particular people/things dead? no

Is it possible to have this flaw without acting on it? yes Does Dawn act on her flaw? yope
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Username: Woodworm

Post Number: 1329
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If not exactly a racist, is she a xenophobe?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3420
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1329
Registered: 3-2006

Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 1:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
If not exactly a racist, is she a xenophobe? noish, but you're ORT (on the right track
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 1196
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the flaw be described as a prejudice? If so, against a particular group of people? Is it a prejudice that is held by many people? A prejudice that is at all accepted in society?

Does she act negatively? or positively? towards a specific group of people?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1197
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One more...is she prejudiced against people of a partucular religion?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3422
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 1196
Registered: 4-2007

Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 8:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Could the flaw be described as a prejudice?yes If so, against a particular group of people? yes Is it a prejudice that is held by many people?in the Us, no. Worldwide, I'm not sure A prejudice that is at all accepted in society? only by the people who have it

Does she act negatively? yesish or positively? notowards a specific group of people?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 1197
Registered: 4-2007

Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 8:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
One more...is she prejudiced against people of a partucular religion?yesish or yope
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 1199
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Dawn believe that a particular thing is true of a group of people? A stereotype? Such as "all Muslims are terrorists"?

If so, is the thing she believes about the group of people a negative thing? Positive? Neutral? Does she believe they are all good at something? Bad at something?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 3423
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 1199
Registered: 4-2007

Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 8:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does Dawn believe that a particular thing is true of a group of people? possibly but not necessarily A stereotype? dittoSuch as "all Muslims are terrorists"? that's not it

If so, is the thing she believes about the group of people a negative thing? yesPositive? possiblyNeutral? no Does she believe they are all good at something? possibly, although virtually no one, not even a bigot, believes this of "all" rather than "most" members of a neutrally defined group Bad at something? ditto
Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1002
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she prejudiced against people based on their ethnicity? their nationality?

Does the flaw make anyone who has it a morally better person? Or is there something particular to Dawn's circumstances that causes it to make her a morally better person?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 3425
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1002
Registered: 6-2003

Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 9:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is she prejudiced against people based on their ethnicity? yes their nationality? no

Does the flaw make anyone who has it a morally better person? noOr is there something particular to Dawn's circumstances that causes it to make her a morally better person? yes
Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1004
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it one particular ethnic group against which she is prejudiced? Or more than one?

Does Dawn regularly have to deal with people of the group(s) against which she is prejudiced?

Is Dawn's ethnicity relevant?
her nationality?
her country of residence?
her place of residence, more specifically than the country?
her occupation?
her family situation?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 3426
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1004
Registered: 6-2003

Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 9:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it one particular ethnic group against which she is prejudiced? yesOr more than one? no

Does Dawn regularly have to deal with people of the group(s) against which she is prejudiced? yes

Is Dawn's ethnicity relevant? yes
her nationality? yes
her country of residence? yes
her place of residence, more specifically than the country? yes
her occupation? yes
her family situation? no
Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Username: Buzzard

Post Number: 1005
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it through her job that she deals with people of the group against which she is prejudiced?

Does she live in North America? South America? Europe? Asia? Africa? Australia? Other?

Is the group against which Dawn is prejudiced primarily based in the country where Dawn lives? in a neighboring country? Is prejudice against this group a documented phenomenon? Has it been in the news? Recently?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3429
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1005
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Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 4:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it through her job that she deals with people of the group against which she is prejudiced?

Does she live in North America? yes South America? no Europe? no Asia? noAfrica? noAustralia? no Other? no

Is the group against which Dawn is prejudiced primarily based in the country where Dawn lives? yope in a neighboring country? no Is prejudice against this group a documented phenomenon? yes Has it been in the news? yes Recently? irrel
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3430
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1005
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Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 4:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it through her job that she deals with people of the group against which she is prejudiced? yes
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1345
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she hate Jews? Does she work in Equal Ops? Is she, in fact, a member of the ethnic group she hates? Is her occupation a morally dubious one to begin with?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 3433
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1345
Registered: 3-2006

Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 10:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does she hate Jews? no Does she work in Equal Ops? no Is she, in fact, a member of the ethnic group she hates?false assumption Is her occupation a morally dubious one to begin with? no
Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1006
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 2:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she live in the US? Canada? Mexico? other?

Is the false assumption that she "hates" the ethnic group, rather than simply being prejudiced against it?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 3435
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1006
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Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 2:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does she live in the US? yes Canada? yes Mexico? yes other? no

Is the false assumption that she "hates" the ethnic group, rather than simply being prejudiced against it? yes|
Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1007
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She lives in the US, Canada, AND Mexico? Does she divide her time among all three? Does she travel a lot because of her job? Does she have a government job? Is NAFTA relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3438
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOOOPERRRALERTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!
Does she live in the US? yes Canada? yes Mexico? yes other? no The last two answers should be no


Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1007
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Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 8:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
She lives in the US, Canada, AND Mexico? no--see above Does she divide her time among all three? no Does she travel a lot because of her job? irrel Does she have a government job? no Is NAFTA relevant? no
Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1011
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Where does Dawn live in the US: Northeast? Southeast? Midwest? Northwest? Southwest? Alaska? Hawaii?

Does she live in a big city? a small city? a suburb? a small town? a rural area?

Does her job require a college degree? a graduate degree?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3460
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Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1011
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Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 8:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Where does Dawn live in the US: Northeast? possibly Southeast? ditto Midwest? ditto Northwest? ditto Southwest? ditto Alaska? unlikely Hawaii? no

Does she live in a big city? a small city? a suburb? a small town? a rural area? irrel

Does her job require a college degree? yes a graduate degree? yes
Travis (Travis)
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Post Number: 89
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she prejudiced against:
Hispanics?
Native Americans?
African-Americans?

Is Dawn a WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant)? I don't believe that's been established yet...
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3471
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Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Travis (Travis)
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Post Number: 89
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Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 3:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is she prejudiced against:
Hispanics? no
Native Americans? no
African-Americans? no

Is Dawn a WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant)? yes I don't believe that's been established yet...
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3472
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Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are some people indifferent to Dawn and her flaw? No doubt some people are indifferent but probably not many. Sorry I overlooked this question earlier!!
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 732
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so she is racially prejudiced and somehow this leads to her becoming a morally better person? does she become less prejudiced? does she become more 'moral' in another way? does she become more kind? helpful? understanding of others' problems? more likely to help the needy? more honest? more brave? more generous? more patient? less self-centered? less greedy? less promiscuous? more loyal?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3484
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Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 4:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
so she is racially prejudiced yesishand somehow this leads to her becoming a morally better person? nodoes she become less prejudiced? that's not itdoes she become more 'moral' in another way? yes does she become more kind? nohelpful? nounderstanding of others' problems? no more likely to help the needy? no more honest? no more brave? noishmore generous? no more patient? noless self-centered? noless greedy? no less promiscuous? no
more loyal? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3485
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Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOOPERRRRRALERTTTTT!!!!!!!!

so she is racially prejudiced yesishand somehow this leads to her becoming a morally better person? no The secpond answer should be yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1212
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that she is probably in the minority of people who think the same way she does? Does it make her more able to speak up for what she believes? Does she perform her job better?
Would it be worth trying to isolate the "ish" of her being racially prejudiced? Or is the prejudice what's important? Is it relevant whp exactly she is prejudiced against?

Is it necessary that she comes into contact with the people she is prejudiced against for her to become more moral? Or could just having this prejudice be enough?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3489
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Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1212
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Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2008 - 10:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it relevant that she is probably in the minority of people who think the same way she does? yes Does it make her more able to speak up for what she believes? yesishDoes she perform her job better? yes
Would it be worth trying to isolate the "ish" of her being racially prejudiced? yes Or is the prejudice what's important? yes Is it relevant whp exactly she is prejudiced against? yes

Is it necessary that she comes into contact with the people she is prejudiced against for her to become more moral? yes Or could just having this prejudice be enough? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3498
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Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Find out more background info about Dawn.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3507
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Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 9:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Post Number: 1005
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Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 4:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it through her job that she deals with people of the group against which she is prejudiced? yes
ANOTHER HINT: Find out what Dawn's job is & precisely what group she's prejudiced against
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 1316
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok here it comes, is her job

Artistic/musical/writer?
Banking / financial / real estate?
Clerical / Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Education / Academic Research ?
Entertainment / Media ?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ?
Politics / Government / Military ?
Security / Law Enforcement?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation /Livery / Trucking ?
Food Service ?
Sports?
Entertainment?
Jailbird / Criminal?
Religion?
Other?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(~damia~)
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Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 10:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
ok here it comes, is her job

Artistic/musical/writer?
Banking / financial / real estate?
Clerical / Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Education / Academic Research ? yes--& no to all others except teaching. No to child care, though
Entertainment / Media ?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ?
Politics / Government / Military ?
Security / Law Enforcement?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation /Livery / Trucking ?
Food Service ?
Sports?
Entertainment?
Jailbird / Criminal?
Religion?
Other?
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Dawn is a teacher? Does she teach preschoolers/kindergardeners, middleschoolers, High schoolers, college students?

Does she teach people of the racial group she dislikes?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 2:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So Dawn is a teacher? Does she teach preschoolers/kindergardeners, middleschoolers, High schoolers, college students?{college. Note: She could also be a graduate student}

Does she teach people of the racial group she dislikes? presumably but that's not really relevant
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she involved somehow in the undergraduates' application or admission process? In the recommendation of students to other schools? To future employers?
Travis (Travis)
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Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 11:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she involved in a foreign exchange program?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 7:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 2:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So Dawn is a teacher? Does she teach preschoolers/kindergardeners, middleschoolers, High schoolers, college students?college. Note: She could also be a graduate student
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 7:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 2:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So Dawn is a teacher? Does she teach preschoolers/kindergardeners, middleschoolers, High schoolers, college students?college. Note: She could also be a graduate student
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 11:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is she involved somehow in the undergraduates' application or admission process? no In the recommendation of students to other schools? no To future employers? no
Travis (Travis)
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Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 11:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is she involved in a foreign exchange program? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap: Add the following to the puzzle description. Dawn is a graduate student or university faculty member who is mildly prejudiced against a particular religious/ethnic group. This puzzle, which is based on an actual case, certainly works in the US & might work elsewhere as well.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 8:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap: Add the following to the puzzle description. Dawn is a graduate student or university faculty member who is mildly prejudiced against a particular religious/ethnic group. This puzzle, which is based on an actual case, certainly works in the US & might work elsewhere as well.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If her specific job is involved, does it require her to be prejudiced? Does it improve her performance? For example, is she a psychology professor or perhaps a budding journalist who must learn (or teach others) to be impartial, and having a prejudice forces her to be better at that?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 12:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
If her specific job is involved, does it require her to be prejudiced? no Does it improve her performance? yesish For example, is she a psychology professor or perhaps a budding journalist who must learn (or teach others) to be impartial, and having a prejudice forces her to be better at that? no
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her prejudice against Arabs / Arab Muslims? Black people? Asians? Hispanics?

Is her prejudice in the form of: "These people are suspicious / more likely to be criminal"? "These people are inherently disadvantaged in life"? "These people should not be living in our community - they should be living elsewhere"?

Does her prejudice cause her to enforce some sort of positive discrimination / affirmative action?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 7:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is her prejudice against Arabs / Arab Muslims? no Black people? no Asians? no Hispanics? no

Is her prejudice in the form of: "These people are suspicious / more likely to be criminal"? no "These people are inherently disadvantaged in life"? no"These people should not be living in our community - they should be living elsewhere"? no
Does her prejudice cause her to enforce some sort of positive discrimination / affirmative action? no
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 2:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Dawn prejudiced against a class of people rather than or in addition to an ethnic group (like children, senior citizens, college students, urban or rural dwellers, the poor or rich...)?

Does Dawn actively discriminate against the targets of her prejudice? While she is on the job? Is it part of her job to do so? Does she frequently come in contact with them? Is she aware of her prejudice, or is it unconscious?

Are her targets also on staff at the university? Or are they students? Or unaffiliated with the school?

Does Dawn teach? Is her major or subject relevant? If so, LPTF (is that the word?) list of subjects.

Is the prejudice vs: Atheists, Les/bi/gays, the differently abled, people smarter or stupider than her?

Is she simply annoyed in some way by the target of her prejudice?

Do others know of her prejudice? Do they approve?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 2:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is Dawn prejudiced against a class of people rather than or in addition to an ethnic group no (like children no, senior citizens Do you mean old people? No, college students no, urban or rural dwellers no, the poor or rich...) no?

Does Dawn actively discriminate against the targets of her prejudice? no While she is on the job? noIs it part of her job to do so?no Does she frequently come in contact with them? yesIs she aware of her prejudice, or is it unconscious? the former

Are her targets also on staff at the university? possibly Or are they students? some students fall into this group Or unaffiliated with the school? see previous answer

Does Dawn teach?possibly Is her major or subject relevant? yesIf so, LPTF (is that the word?) list of subjects. It works best with my field (philosophy), psychology, sociology, but would work pretty well with any "liberal arts" field

Is the prejudice vs: Atheists no, Les/bi/gays no, the differently abledNo--I assume this pc claptrap means "disabled", people smarter or stupider than her? no

Is she simply annoyed in some way by the target of her prejudice? no but irrel

Do others know of her prejudice? {some do}Do they approve? As with all prejudices, some peopleapprove & some don't

By the way, I'm "prejudiced" against pc eupmemisms like "differently abled" & "senior citizen," excvept that I don't even consider this a prejudice. But to each his own.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this prejudice have an "ism" word to describe it, like racism, antisemitism, etc.? (I mean one you could actually find in a dictionary--of course you could always coin one yourself for just about anything, but I'd be hard-pressed to come up with one for "dislike of blue-eyed people" that the average person would understand without an explanation).

Could the targets of this prejudice be found in any country of the world (as opposed to just some)? In any age group?

If you say Dawn is morally better as a result of her prejudice, I would assume that some group of people receives at least a perceived benefit from her actions (acting so as to displease everyone could hardly be considered morally better!)? If so, is this group the very people she is prejudiced against? Another ethnic or yesishly ethnic group? Another type of group entirely?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 12:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does this prejudice have an "ism" word to describe it, like racism, antisemitism, etc.? Yes, & the prejudice is antisemitism (I mean one you could actually find in a dictionary--of course you could always coin one yourself for just about anything, but I'd be hard-pressed to come up with one for "dislike of blue-eyed people" that the average person would understand without an explanation).

Could the targets of this prejudice be found in any country of the world (as opposed to just some)? Well, almost any. I doubt there are Jews in Saudi Arabia, although I may be mistaken, of course. In any age group? yes

If you say Dawn is morally better as a result of her prejudice, I would assume that some group of people receives at least a perceived benefit from her actions (acting so as to displease everyone could hardly be considered morally better!)? yesish But you could be a better person without benefiting a group of people. Maybe your virtue benefits just one person, or a group of cats, or just improves your character without affecting your actions. For example, someone would presumably be a better person if he stopped gloating over other people's (or at least, innocent people's) misfortunes, even if he has been gloating only in private. If so, is this group the very people she is prejudiced against? no Another ethnic or yesishly ethnic group? no Another type of group entirely? yesish
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 5:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this prejudice have an "ism" word to describe it, like racism, antisemitism, etc.? Yes, & the prejudice is antisemitism

I thought you already eliminated Jews in response to Woodworm's post on June 08, 2008 at 10:49 pm. That was one of the first specific guesses anyone made as to the flaw, after a few very broad ones. OK, maybe the word "hate" is too strong in your opinion to describe antisemitism (such could be argued), but it at least should have gotten a yesish, no?

yesish But you could be a better person without benefiting a group of people. Maybe your virtue benefits just one person, or a group of cats, or just improves your character without affecting your actions. For example, someone would presumably be a better person if he stopped gloating over other people's (or at least, innocent people's) misfortunes, even if he has been gloating only in private.

Fine, I guess you have a different definition of "morally better" than I do, that can involve private thoughts as well. I meant a group as in one or more people--and sorry about not considering the moral rights of our feline friends :-)

Anyway, the person(s) who benefit from Dawn's behavior: Are they all of the same religion? national origin? profession?

Does Dawn need to interact directly with them for them to benefit?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 5:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Clarification: I realize that the first set of questions can only be answered by anything other than FA if there is more than one person benefiting. So the question could be better phrased, "Are any of the following relevant to the benefit: religion? etc."
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyway, the person(s) who benefit from Dawn's behavior: Are they all of the same religion?no national origin? no profession? yesish

Does Dawn need to interact directly with them for them to benefit?What counts as directly? She doesn't need to see them or be in the same room with them
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 5:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Clarification: I realize that the first set of questions can only be answered by anything other than FA if there is more than one person benefiting. So the question could be better phrased, "Are any of the following relevant to the benefit: religion? etc." same answers
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As for the yesish profession, are they all undergraduate students? Other graduate students or professors?

As for the interaction, does she need to communicate any information to the people (possibly over the phone or by mail/email, not necessarily face-to-face)?

Must she evaluate/grade the performance of the people who benefit? Make decisions involving their future educational opportunities? Same for professional opportunities?

If a member of the benefiting group were Jewish (I'm assuming that's possible, since religion is unimportant to the benefit), would that change the degree to which they would gain from Dawn's behavior?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 11:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
As for the yesish profession, are they all undergraduate students? Other graduate students or professors? They're all in one of these three categories, with the latter two more affected

As for the interaction, does she need to communicate any information to the people (possibly over the phone or by mail/email, not necessarily face-to-face)?yope--some people she does not communicate with may also benefit

Must she evaluate/grade the performance of the people who benefit? some of themMake decisions involving their future educational opportunities? ditto Same for professional opportunities? ditto

If a member of the benefiting group were Jewish (I'm assuming that's possible, since religion is unimportant to the benefit), would that change the degree to which they would gain from Dawn's behavior? no
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Must she evaluate/grade the performance of the people who benefit? some of them Make decisions involving their future educational opportunities? ditto Same for professional opportunities? ditto

So from the use of the word "some" I gather, then, that the evaluation/grading is not a crucial aspect of how Dawn's prejudice affects these other people. In other words, while her prejudice could potentially show through in her evaluations, she does not need to evaluate their performance for them to feel treated better morally. So in fact the answer to the question, as I was originally thinking (it was poorly phrased), is no. Am I correct?

Is the better moral behavior monetary in nature ( her better morality affects others' financial standing)?
related to the conditions under which they must work and/or work requirements?
emotional (they simply feel more welcome/appreciated)?
something else?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 8:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Must she evaluate/grade the performance of the people who benefit? some of them Make decisions involving their future educational opportunities? ditto Same for professional opportunities? ditto

So from the use of the word "some" I gather, then, that the evaluation/grading is not a crucial aspect of how Dawn's prejudice affects these other people. In other words, while her prejudice could potentially show through in her evaluations, she does not need to evaluate their performance for them to feel treated better morally. That's right So in fact the answer to the question, as I was originally thinking (it was poorly phrased), is no. Am I correct? yes

Is the better moral behavior monetary in nature ( her better morality affects others' financial standing)? no
related to the conditions under which they must work yope and/or work requirements? no
emotional (they simply feel more welcome/appreciated)? yes
something else? yes
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP: Dawn is mildly anti-Semitic & she is a graduate student or assistant professor in a liberal arts field (philosophy in the real-life case, which is how I knew her). HINT: The puzzle would work almost as well if Dawn were Dan & a sexist. Find out what other combinations of occupations & prejudices would work. There is also another fact you should find out about Dawn's character & values.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does her better moral behavior become visible in her research? in her work with (undergraduate) students? in her relationship to colleagues/co-workers?
Is she anti-Semitic in a very specific way? Is she opposing a specific element of Jewish culture? religion? traditions? history?
Is a large part of researchers in liberal arts Jewish? (or maybe, female?)
Does she, therefore, have a critical distance to the achievements of her own profession?
John Milton relevant? or Milton Friedman? (he was Jewish, and a liberal)
or some other Milton?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 2:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 10:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does her better moral behavior become visible in her research?yes in her work with (undergraduate) students? yes in her relationship to colleagues/co-workers? yes--that's the most important aspect
Is she anti-Semitic in a very specific way? no Is she opposing a specific element of Jewish culture? noreligion? notraditions? nohistory? no
Is a large part of researchers in liberal arts Jewish? yes (or maybe, female? irrel)
Does she, therefore, have a critical distance to the achievements of her own profession? yes
John Milton relevant? no or Milton Friedman? (he was Jewish, and a liberal) Milton Friedman was probably Jewish, judging from his name, but he was VERY conservative. I'm not saying that because I'm a knee-
jerk liberal; he described himself as conservative.
or some other Milton? no

***** SPOILER ******
Dawn, who is a real person, came to graduate school in philosophy with some mild, residual anti-Semitism from her small town, quasi-fundamentalist background. She also had a burning desire to get in with the in-crowd in academic philosophy. . .many of whose members are Jewish. Her anti-Semitism was reprehensible in itself but had the good effect of working against her tendency to academic conformity. . .for a little while. But the former proved no match for the latter, & her anti-Semitism soon disappeared, to be replaced by the prejudices acceptable to high-status academics, against those who teach at obscure schools & publish in obscure journals, if at all. Thanks for sticking with it, everyone, & for solving it, Sundowner, & a new puzzle awaits all who scroll down to the bottom of the page.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 3:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"or Milton Friedman? (he was Jewish, and a liberal) Milton Friedman was probably Jewish, judging from his name, but he was VERY conservative. I'm not saying that because I'm a knee-jerk liberal; he described himself as conservative."

Both of you are kind of right--he is best described as a libertarian, which, compared with many ideas of modern liberalism that call for increased government regulation, particularly of business and the economy, can be classified as conservative. However, the original meaning of the word "liberal" is favoring more freedom, and therefore Friedman could be called a "classical liberal" as well.

That has nothing to do with the puzzle, I just thought I'd say it as I'm a member of a libertarian club at a university.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 3:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
"or Milton Friedman? (he was Jewish, and a liberal) Milton Friedman was probably Jewish, judging from his name, but he was VERY conservative. I'm not saying that because I'm a knee-jerk liberal; he described himself as conservative."

Both of you are kind of right--he is best described as a libertarian, which, compared with many ideas of modern liberalism that call for increased government regulation, particularly of business and the economy, can be classified as conservative. However, the original meaning of the word "liberal" is favoring more freedom, and therefore Friedman could be called a "classical liberal" as well. I agree. But libertatians are generally called conservative rather than liberal ("right" rather than "left") just as people who are liberal economically & conservative socially are generally called "left" rather than "right" (e.g., Catholics who are pro-life, pro-welfare, & anti-war are generally called "the Catholic left"). I agree that this sort of terminology is an oversimplification.

That has nothing to do with the puzzle, I just thought I'd say it as I'm a member of a libertarian club at a university.

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