| Author | Message | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1609 Registered: 3-2006 |
... and had he lived in Roman times, he wouldn't have taken umbrage in the way that he did. | ||
| Deathateaster (Deathateaster)
New member Username: Deathateaster Post Number: 196 Registered: 5-2007 |
He's all the same? A? H? M? | ||
| Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
New member Username: Howardwoman Post Number: 194 Registered: 1-2008 |
Title relevant? Sounds like a highway. | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1611 Registered: 3-2006 |
He's all the same? A? H? M? yes to all Title relevant? yes Sounds like a highway. indeed | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1560 Registered: 1-2007 |
Still laughing at your Monty Python post in RCS' puzzle so I have to ask if the following are relevant... Medicine? Education? Wine? Public Order? Irigation? Roads? Fresh Water System? and Public Health....oh and bringing peace? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1563 Registered: 1-2007 |
Hey I just created another LTPF list | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1615 Registered: 3-2006 |
Still laughing at your Monty Python post in RCS' puzzle so I have to ask if the following are relevant... Medicine? Education? Wine? Public Order? Irigation? Roads? only to the extent that I 278 is a road Fresh Water System? and Public Health....oh and bringing peace? No to rest. Nor yet the Limburger, Blue Vinney, Port Salut or Venezuelan Beaver Cheese. [My favourite Sporcle quiz, if you haven't already seen it. It would make a smashing puzzle, but this isn't it.] | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1052 Registered: 12-2004 |
Umbrage as in... Anger? Annoyance? Offense? Doubt? Foliage? (He would not have an electric tree trimmer?) Did all the roads in Roman times lead to Rome? Would he have taken umbrage in a different way? Was he trying to get to Rome via Interstate 278? | ||
| Rcs (Rcs)
New member Username: Rcs Post Number: 209 Registered: 9-2008 |
I-278 is in Pennsylvania, isn't it? Is there a Rome, PA that's on or near that highway? Relevant? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1617 Registered: 3-2006 |
Umbrage as in... Anger? Annoyance? Offense? Doubt? this is closest Foliage? (He would not have an electric tree trimmer?) Did all the roads in Roman times lead to Rome? no idea Would he have taken umbrage in a different way? possibly Was he trying to get to Rome via Interstate 278? no | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1618 Registered: 3-2006 |
I-278 is in Pennsylvania, isn't it? no, but close: according to Wikipedia, it's in NY with a small section in NJ Is there a Rome, PA that's on or near that highway? so, no Relevant? and no, but nice thinking | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1085 Registered: 12-2004 |
Did he take umbrage as he was diving? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1619 Registered: 3-2006 |
Did he take umbrage as he was diving? no | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1101 Registered: 12-2004 |
Sailing? Parachuting? Flying? Hang gliding? Skiing? Swimming? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1621 Registered: 3-2006 |
Sailing? Parachuting? Flying? Hang gliding? Skiing? Swimming? no to all | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1464 Registered: 12-2004 |
Did he expect something? Did he not expect something? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1624 Registered: 3-2006 |
Did he expect something? nothing relevant Did he not expect something? see previous answer | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1595 Registered: 1-2007 |
Ok so there was a road called the I 278? which caused our hero (let's call him Brian to keep with the monty p theme) to feel an emotion close to doubt. Did he start to feel umbrage when he heard about the plans to construct the road? or when construction actually started? or when he travelled on the road? Any environmental concerns relevant? consecrated ground? Did he object to the road in any way? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1596 Registered: 1-2007 |
Oh and if he ever travelled the road is it relevant what mode of transport he used? car? bus? motorcycle? truck? chariot!!? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1597 Registered: 1-2007 |
oops just read that it wasn't while driving so strike that. | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1630 Registered: 3-2006 |
Oh hi, Peter: I'd forgotten this one! Ok so there was a road called the I 278? there still is, I believe which caused our hero (let's call him Brian to keep with the monty p theme) to feel an emotion close to doubt no: big juicy FA here, I'm afraid. Did he start to feel umbrage when he heard about the plans to construct the road? FA or when construction actually started? or when he travelled on the road? Any environmental concerns relevant? consecrated ground? Did he object to the road in any way?Oh and if he ever travelled the road is it relevant what mode of transport he used? car? bus? motorcycle? truck? chariot!!? FA to all: he knew nothing about the road and never used it in his life! | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1612 Registered: 1-2007 |
Bit stuck here so some general questions . Any relevant crimes? occupations? other people? any deaths? Location relevant? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1634 Registered: 3-2006 |
Bit stuck here so some general questions . Any relevant crimes? no occupations? yes, our hero's line of work [related to entertainment and the arts] is relevant other people? some unnnamed people are vaguely relevant but not especially useful in solving the puzzle any deaths? no Location relevant? not really: you might like to follow the Interstate 278 for a clue ... but this is not the location of the puzzle scenario | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1615 Registered: 1-2007 |
Is he an artist (painter sculptor etc.) . An actor, singer, writer. Is he a real person? famous? Is he English ? American? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1635 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is he an artist (painter sculptor etc.) Not a painter or sculptor, no, but a practitioner of the arts ... . An actor, singer, writer. but none of these Is he a real person? Yes, and he isn't called Brian. That's not to say you may not call him Brian if you feel like it :-) famous? very much so Is he English? no American? no | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 564 Registered: 12-2007 |
Is/was he a real person? Is he alive? If not, did he live in the [insert LTPF list of ordinal integers] century? Is/was he a composer? A musician of some sort? A dancer? An architect? Was he born in Europe? North/South America? Asia? Africa? Oceania? Antarctica? Is he normally associated with a nation different from the one he was born in? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1636 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is/was he a real person? yes Is he alive? no If not, did he live in the [insert LTPF list of ordinal integers] century? the nineteenth century Is/was he a composer? this one A musician of some sort? A dancer? An architect? Was he born in Europe? yes North/South America? Asia? Africa? Oceania? Antarctica? Is he normally associated with a nation different from the one he was born in? no to rest | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 565 Registered: 12-2007 |
Austrian? German? French? Italian? Russian? Hungarian? Other? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1637 Registered: 3-2006 |
Austrian? Right first time! The Austrians have certainly produced more than their quota of great composers German? French? Italian? Russian? Hungarian? Other? | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 566 Registered: 12-2007 |
They surely have. Strauss sr? Strauss jr? Schubert? Other? What is relevant about this man? ...a specific composition? ...his style? ...anything he did? ...his name? ...his family? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1638 Registered: 3-2006 |
They surely have. Strauss sr? Strauss jr? Schubert? Other? this one What is relevant about this man? ...a specific composition? this is relevant ...his style? ...anything he did? and so is this ...his name? ...his family? | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 567 Registered: 12-2007 |
Oh, Mahler maybe? You said 19th century, so I ruled out Mozart and Haydn, who were among the first to come to mind. It's not one of them, is it? Otherwise... *googles* ...Franz Xaver Süssmayr? ...Johann Nepomuk Hummel? ...Carl Czerny? ...Johann Strauss I? ...Anton Bruckner? ...Johann Strauss II? ...Josef Strauss? ...Eduard Strauss? ...Walter Rabl? ...Franz Schmidt? ...Arnold Schoenberg? ...Fritz Kreisler? ...Anton Webern? ...Alban Berg? ...Egon Joseph Wellesz? Would it help to determine the nature of the composition or to identify it? Is it a symphony? A concert? A sonata? A suite? Is it supposed to be performed by [insert LTPF list of integers] musicians? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1642 Registered: 3-2006 |
Oh, Mahler maybe? no: his best work, imho, is from the early 20th century, though he was not averse to a spot of umbrage You said 19th century, so I ruled out Mozart and Haydn, who were among the first to come to mind. It's not one of them, is it? no, you were right to rule them out, though Haydn made it into the 19th century Actually we had a rather interesting Fritz Kreisler puzzle a while ago, but the person you want is: Johann Strauss I? ...Anton Bruckner? this one ...Johann Strauss II? ...Josef Strauss? ...Eduard Strauss? ...Walter Rabl? ...Franz Schmidt? ...Arnold Schoenberg? ...Fritz Kreisler? ...Anton Webern? ...Alban Berg? ...Egon Joseph Wellesz? Would it help to determine the nature of the composition or to identify it? it would indeed Is it a symphony? it is A concert? A sonata? A suite? Is it supposed to be performed by [insert LTPF list of integers] musicians? somewhere between 50 and 100, I imagine, depending on how many desks of strings you want By the way, you can now forget the title, which was just a cryptic hint. The I-278, as it passes through the Bronx, is the Bruckner Expressway, built on the site of the old Bruckner Boulevard. | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 568 Registered: 12-2007 |
I would have never got the hint :-S I think I remember the Fritz Keisler puzzle... wasn't he a relative of the puzzle host or something? Right... so is the relevant composition his [insert LTPF list of ordinal integers] symphony? Is this symphony different from other symphonies of the same period? From all other symphonies? From all other symphonies written by Bruckner? Is there anything peculiar about the symphony? Is the name of the symphony relevant? Will think of more :-) | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 569 Registered: 12-2007 |
Ah, yes. The reference to Roman times: is technology (or lack thereof) relevant? He wouldn't have taken umbrage because something wouldn't have been possible in Roman times? Because it would have ended up differently? Because people spoke another language? Because it would have happened in another place? Just to check... Roman = Ancient Rome? Roman times ~ first century A.D.? Is Bruckner the one who took umbrage? Is he relevant in any way or is it only his symphony that is relevant? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1644 Registered: 3-2006 |
I would have never got the hint :-S I think I remember the Fritz Keisler puzzle... wasn't he a relative of the puzzle host or something? that's right Right... so is the relevant composition his [insert LTPF list of ordinal integers] symphony? it is the second or third symphony he composed, depending on whether we count the early F minor ... Is this symphony different from other symphonies of the same period? stylistically, it is quite typical among Bruckner's symphonies From all other symphonies? no, but it has one interesting characteristic that sets it apart from all other symphonies in the concert repertoire From all other symphonies written by Bruckner? see above Is there anything peculiar about the symphony? yes Is the name of the symphony relevant? well, it doesn't have a name as such, the only one I know with a nickname being the "Romantic" in E flat, and it isn't that one Will think of more :-) you're very close! Ah, yes. By the way, you don't need any knowledge of Romantic music or music theory to finish off this puzzle! The reference to Roman times: is technology (or lack thereof) relevant? for svv of technology, yes He wouldn't have taken umbrage because something wouldn't have been possible in Roman times? that's correct Because it would have ended up differently? no Because people spoke another language? no Because it would have happened in another place? no Just to check... Roman = Ancient Rome? indeed Roman times ~ first century A.D.? yes, or any period thereabouts Is Bruckner the one who took umbrage? he is Is he relevant in any way or is it only his symphony that is relevant? it is his umbrage-taking gesture | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 570 Registered: 12-2007 |
Would googling around $poil the puzzle? I will avoid it unless you tell us that it is allowed and encouraged :-) Is the symphony peculiar... ...because of the number of performers? ...because of the way it should be performed? ...because of its length? ...because of some historical circumstances (e.g. the guy that played tuba on the first night was Gustav Mahler)? ...because it is supposed to be played with unusual instruments or combinations thereof? ...because it is supposed to be played in a swimming suit? At some point in history, a technological change (for svv of technological) took place and made it possible for Bruckner to take umbrage and write his symphony. Is this correct? If so, did this change happen in the [LTPF list of ordinal integers] century? Is the symphony the expression of Bruckner's umbrage? Or is it its cause? Its consequence? Is it a "statement of umbrage"? Long shot: is mathematics relevant? Did a discovery of some sort make it possible for Bruckner to take umbrage the way he did? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1646 Registered: 3-2006 |
Would googling around $poil the puzzle? I will avoid it unless you tell us that it is allowed and encouraged :-) You are so close now that Googling would probably spoil the puzzle, and it might be more fun not to peep Is the symphony peculiar... ...because of the number of performers? no ...because of the way it should be performed? no ...because of its length? no: all Bruckner symphonies are insufferably long, and this one is no different ...because of some historical circumstances (e.g. the guy that played tuba on the first night was Gustav Mahler)? nice thought, but no ...because it is supposed to be played with unusual instruments or combinations thereof? no ...because it is supposed to be played in a swimming suit? hehe, a bizarre thought, but no At some point in history, a technological change (for svv of technological) took place and made it possible for Bruckner to take umbrage and write his symphony. Is this correct? no, he took umbrage after writing the symphony If so, did this change happen in the [LTPF list of ordinal integers] century? a difficult one to answer, as it depends on various cultures, but Wikipedia suggests the ninth century, so let's go with that Is the symphony the expression of Bruckner's umbrage? Or is it its cause? Its consequence? Is it a "statement of umbrage"? none of those: that was Shostakovich's Fifth, which was ostensibly an apology to Stalin but actually more of an hour-long musical sulk :-) Long shot: is mathematics relevant? Absolutely! Nice when long shots hit their targets! Did a discovery of some sort make it possible for Bruckner to take umbrage the way he did? yes-ish | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 571 Registered: 12-2007 |
Hmmm, ninth century, it must be the introduction of the zero in European culture... right? Was Bruckner's symphony rated with a zero by an unenthusiastic critic and, thus, he took umbrage? Is this close? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1647 Registered: 3-2006 |
Hmmm, ninth century, it must be the introduction of the zero in European culture... right? Right! Was Bruckner's symphony rated with a zero by an unenthusiastic critic and, thus, he took umbrage? hmmmm ... not quite, but very very close indeed Is this close? perhaps one final tweak before I $poil. He got a bad review, and he had a sulk, but it was not the critic who gave him a zero, but rather ... | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 572 Registered: 12-2007 |
...himself? This is what the puzzle statement seems to suggest, but I can't see how he could give himself a zero... Otherwise, the audience? Zero attendance? (But surely that could have happened in Roman times, too.) | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1649 Registered: 3-2006 |
...himself? yes! This is what the puzzle statement seems to suggest, but I can't see how he could give himself a zero... well, he did, in a particular way, and this is the last piece of the jigsaw Otherwise, the audience? Zero attendance? (But surely that could have happened in Roman times, too.) Not this. I'm sure that if Viennese symphonies had been performed in Roman times, Mahler would have been fed to a hungry lion long before he got to the Third ... and some would say, quite right too. | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 573 Registered: 12-2007 |
Can't help agreeing :-) So is this zero some kind of rating? A mark? The result of some kind of evaluation? Or does it represent an amount of something (as in zero people)? The result of a measurement? By giving himself a zero, was he trying to make a point? Was anyone else aware (at some point) of the fact that he gave himself a zero? Or did he just do it for himself? Maybe as an act of irritation? Frustration? Disbelief? Did he obtain any advantage from the fact that he gave himself a zero (e.g. he got more audience at the following performances)? Or was it disadvantageous? Neither? | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 574 Registered: 12-2007 |
Oh, was it an amount of money? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1650 Registered: 3-2006 |
Ah, I was sure you would have it on this post! So close. So is this zero some kind of rating? no A mark? no The result of some kind of evaluation? a rather sulky self-evaluation Or does it represent an amount of something (as in zero people)? no The result of a measurement? no By giving himself a zero, was he trying to make a point? in a way, yes Was anyone else aware (at some point) of the fact that he gave himself a zero? yes: it has passed into history, and I'm listening to the piece now, as it happens Or did he just do it for himself? no Maybe as an act of irritation? this, or annoyance, or self-abasement (which was very popular among the Austro-German Romantics, apparently. They even had a word for it: Selbstvernichtung). Frustration? Disbelief? not really those Did he obtain any advantage from the fact that he gave himself a zero (e.g. he got more audience at the following performances)? no Or was it disadvantageous? Neither? neither, really Or was it an amount of money? no | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 575 Registered: 12-2007 |
Well, I was sure I wouldn't! I'm afraid I will need a few more posts to solve the puzzle... I obviously have trouble at imagining Germanic reactions. Did he destroy the score? Would I notice that Bruckner gave himself a zero if I listened to the piece? If I saw the score? If I watched a live performance? How much time after the first performance did he give himself a zero? Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Years? Was there a particular event that triggered his reaction (except the bad review)? Did he paint a huge "0" on a cardboard sign and hung it around his neck? Did he write any other symphonies after this one? Any other music at all? Relevant? On a side note, I think Selbstvernichtung is a distinctive behaviour of even contemporary Austrians and Germans. I have always wondered how it feels for them to carry almost exclusively the burden of guilt for the events of WWII... | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1651 Registered: 3-2006 |
Did he destroy the score? No: so he can't have been too selfless. Actually Brahms did a lot of score-burning Would I notice that Bruckner gave himself a zero if I listened to the piece? Not just by listening, no If I saw the score? Yes: one specific page of the score, and you wouldn't even have to read music If I watched a live performance? Only if you had a programme with you How much time after the first performance did he give himself a zero? Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Years? Not sure: I imagine days or weeks Was there a particular event that triggered his reaction (except the bad review)? No: just the bad public reception of the piece Did he paint a huge "0" on a cardboard sign and hung it around his neck? Hehe, no. That reminds me of a Terry Riley concert I went to. Instead of conducting in the usual way, he held up large cardboard numbers and waved them around. Did he write any other symphonies after this one? Yes: eight. His symphonies are numbered up to 9 Any other music at all? Lots Relevant? no | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 576 Registered: 12-2007 |
So is it his zeroth symphony...? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1652 Registered: 3-2006 |
So is it his zeroth symphony...? Yes! *** SPOILER *** This was my little sequel to the Beethoven/Romans puzzle we had a couple of weeks ago. Anton Bruckner was so upset by the poor public reception of hie early D minor symphony that he withdrew it, and called it the Symphony no.0. Obviously, the Romans had no digit for zero. Incidentally, the very early F minor symphony, which never had a number, is usually called Symphony no.00. Thanks for playing! | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 577 Registered: 12-2007 |
The solution was really in front of my nose, but I was just blind! Plus, my question about mathematics was supposed to lead in a completely different direction... sometimes this is how it goes. Very nice puzzle, anyway, I always like yours and keep an eye out for them. | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 51 Registered: 9-2008 |
Good job, guys! I know nothing about classical music, but it was really fun to follow your conversation. And, I learned something new in the process. Thanks! |
