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Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Two groups are put in one classroom each. They are both given a lecture in an household appliance, and then given a task. One group finishes the task almost at once, the other group takes hours.
Vagary (Vagary)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does one group have Down's syndrome?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the groups have different physical abilities?
Different mental abilities?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cleaning an oven? I know some ovens have a "clean" function that heats it up to a very high temperature to get the leftover gunk off. Doing it by hand could take a while.
Obvious (Obvious)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they actually inside the appliace?

Are they given the same task? Must they carry out the task in the exact same way?

Do the groups have equal numbers of members?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does one group have Down's syndrome? NO
Do the groups have different physical abilities? NO, the two groups start out as very similar in all aspects
Different mental abilities? see prev answ
Cleaning an oven? NO
Are they actually inside the appliace? NO I'll rephrase:The lecture topic is the household appliance, the groups are inside the classrooms

Are they given the same task? YES
Must they carry out the task in the exact same way? Yope/FA

Do the groups have equal numbers of members? the groups are equal at the start
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they both lectured on the same type of appliance? Both groups are given the same task? Do they both have equal manpower? Resources? Specialized knowledge? Does the lecture in any way relate to the task? Do all people use the same language? Any poor translations from English to Welsh relevant? Is the task a physical action that is to be done? By the collective members of each group? Are the classrooms identical? Are the groups equal in manpower, resources, knowledge, etc. after the lectures? Any deaths? Are any albatrosses relevant?
Obvious (Obvious)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 1:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the task involve an act of morality?

Is idle time of group members relevent?

Does the first group's task affect the ability of the second group to finish theirs?
Obvious (Obvious)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they using different machines to complete the task?

Is one group using an electronic appliance the other a manual one?

Is there a difference between the modernity of the equipment used?

Is this task repititous? for both groups?

Is one group using the Ford System (each person repeatedly does a component part of the task) and the other doing the older system where each person completes the entire task individually?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they both lectured on the same type of appliance? no
Both groups are given the same task? yes
Do they both have equal manpower/resources? yes
Specialized knowledge? no
Does the lecture in any way relate to the task? no. Good question
Do all people use the same language? yes
Any poor translations from English to Welsh relevant? no
Is the task a physical action that is to be done? yes
By the collective members of each group? no
Are the classrooms identical? yes
Any deaths? no
Are any albatrosses relevant? no
Does the task involve an act of morality? no
Is idle time of group members relevent? depends what you mean by "idle"
Does the first group's task affect the ability of the second group to finish theirs? no
Are they using different machines to complete the task? yope. the task for both groups is the same, and the classrooms are identical
Is one group using an electronic appliance the other a manual one? no
Is there a difference between the modernity of the equipment used? no
Is this task repititous? for both groups? no to both
Is one group using the Ford System (each person repeatedly does a component part of the task) and the other doing the older system where each person completes the entire task individually?no
Obvious (Obvious)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is time of day relevant?

Is the time of the lecture relevant?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is time of day relevant?

Is the time of the lecture relevant?
no to both
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: the task has to be performed by a single person (anyone in the group), but the whole group works together on how to perform the task
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the appliance on which each group was lectured relevant?
Obvious (Obvious)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is anything about the lecture relevant?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is anything about the lecture relevant?
Is the appliance on which each group was lectured relevant?yes to both
Obvious (Obvious)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does one lecture involve a collaborative approach and the other a more "jump in on your own" approach?

Is the appliance they are lectured on used to carry out the task? for both groups or just one?

Is one group doing the task in a different order than the other?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the appliance on which group (1) is lectured...

A small appliance? (e.g., an espresso machine)
A large appliance? (e.g., an oven)
Used with food/beverages?
Used in cleaning?
Used for another purpose?

Is the appliance on which group (2) is lectured...

A small appliance? (e.g., an espresso machine)
A large appliance? (e.g., an oven)
Used with food/beverages?
Used in cleaning?
Used for another purpose?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 8:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does one lecture involve a collaborative approach and the other a more "jump in on your own" approach? no
Is the appliance they are lectured on used to carry out the task? yes
for both groups or just one? just one

Is one group doing the task in a different order than the other?no/FA
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 8:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and now we're getting somewhere:
Is the appliance on which group (1) is lectured...

A small appliance? (e.g., an espresso machine) yes
A large appliance? (e.g., an oven)no
Used with food/beverages? no
Used in cleaning? no
Used for another purpose? yes

Is the appliance on which group (2) is lectured...

A small appliance? (e.g., an espresso machine) no
A large appliance? (e.g., an oven) yes
Used with food/beverages? yes
Used in cleaning? no
Used for another purpose? no
Vagary (Vagary)
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they charged with disassembling or assembling different appliances?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they charged with disassembling or assembling different appliances?no
Obvious (Obvious)
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the one group complete the task in a different time because the have appropriate knowledge of the machine necessary from the lecture? or inappropriate knowledge from the lecture
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 7:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the one group complete the task in a different time because the have appropriate knowledge of the machine necessary from the lecture? no
or inappropriate knowledge from the lecture?YES! Very good question. Getting close now
Obvious (Obvious)
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Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does one group do something that prevents their machine from working? Or makes it take longer to work - ie, the task is defrosting one group chips away at the ice in a freezer while the other turns on the defroster and uses hot water to help dispel it?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does one group do something that prevents their machine from working?
Or makes it take longer to work - ie, the task is defrosting one group chips away at the ice in a freezer while the other turns on the defroster and uses hot water to help dispel it?both irrelevant/FA on the use of the appliance
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the appliance on which group (1) was lectured most likely be found in....
A living room?
A kitchen?
A study?
A bedroom?
An office?
A bathroom?
An outside location?
A home?
A business?
A factory?
Appliance Direct?

Is the appliance on which group (2) was lectured...
A refrigerator?
A freezer?
A cooker? (Oven, stove, etc.)
A trash compactor?
A microwave?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 6:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a scientific study of some sort being carried out? Do the groups get ideas from the lectures on how to carry out the task? Are they guided towards using the appliance to accomplish the task when they don't actually have to? Or vice versa (ie, they are under the impression they shouldn't or are unable to use the item when they can)?

Are they accomplishing the same task? If not, answer these questions for both groups.

Are they given the same amount of time to accomplish the task?

Could it be considered a puzzle? A "trick question?"
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a scientific study of some sort being carried out? yes
Do the groups get ideas from the lectures on how to carry out the task? no
Are they guided towards using the appliance to accomplish the task when they don't actually have to? no
Or vice versa (ie, they are under the impression they shouldn't or are unable to use the item when they can)? yes (oh yes)

Are they accomplishing the same task? yes

Are they given the same amount of time to accomplish the task? yes

Could it be considered a puzzle? A "trick question?" if by "it", you mean the task they have to perform, yes. Otherwise,define "it"
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you going to answer my questions?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, dr.Peppa, missed your questions
Appliance for group 1: Neither location, I actually couldn't even find it on Appliance Direct's homepage, although I'm sure they have it.
Anyway, I'll give it away: It's an iron.
Group 2 were lectured on a cooker, and both appliances are present in both classrooms.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's quite all right. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't alienated everyone.

Were the groups under the impression that they had to use the appliance on which they were lectured to accomplish their goal?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 7:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the groups under the impression that they had to use the appliance on which they were lectured to accomplish their goal?no instructions were given on whether to use the appliances or not
Vagary (Vagary)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ironing a cooker, or cooking an iron relevant?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ironing a cooker, or cooking an iron relevant?haha, i never thought of that one, what a thought. Inventive! but no. HINT: When the task is given, it doesn't mention the appliance(s)
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was either group under the impression that they had to perform a task without using some particular item? Did either group have any FA's or passive or active scrunds?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was either group under the impression that they had to perform a task without using some particular item? Did either group have any FA's or passive or active scrunds?
I'll answer these as if they were posed a bit differently since you're getting really close. Also, I'm not 100% sure of the difference between active or passive scrunds. Some help after the spoiler would be welcome.
Group 1 (iron lecture) were under the FA that their appliance wasn't necessary/allowed/never crossed their minds to use it, and took the longest to finish the task.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could group 1 have used their appliance in performing the task? Would they have been able to do it any faster? Could group 1 have used a cooker in performing the task (you did say the classrooms were identically equipped, correct)? Would they have been able to do it any faster? Did group 2 use an iron in performing the task? Could they have used an iron in performing the task? Did group 2 use a cooker in performing their task? Could they have used a cooker in performing the task? Did group 1 use any other relevant item to perform the task? Did group 2 use any other relevant item to perform the task?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could group 1 have used their appliance in performing the task? yes, and they finally did
Could group 1 have used a cooker in performing the task (you did say the classrooms were identically equipped, correct)the cooker was there, but couldn't have been used
Did group 2 use an iron in performing the task?yes
Did group 1 use any other relevant item to perform the task? no,they used the iron after a long time
Did group 2 use any other relevant item to perform the task?no, just the iron
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did group 1 not think to use an iron to perform the task because of their lecture? Did group 2 think to use an iron to perform the task because of their lecture?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The cake is NOT a lie! What is this, some kind of reverse psychology?

Did somebody in group 1, after being frustrated, just say, "I have an idea. Let's use an iron!"
And minutes later, they had done it?

Did the lecture on the iron warn people never to use an iron because it would result in mass casualties?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did group 1 not think to use an iron to perform the task because of their lecture? yes indeed
Did group 2 think to use an iron to perform the task because of their lecture?no/irrel
Did somebody in group 1, after being frustrated, just say, "I have an idea. Let's use an iron!"
And minutes later, they had done it?I don't know if it happened exactly like that, but you can assume it did. He problably said THE iron since they'd been lectured on it for a while, haha

Did the lecture on the iron warn people never to use an iron because it would result in mass casualties?no
Vagary (Vagary)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the activity have to do with flattening paper/a pair of pants, or a similar activity?

Generating steam relevant?

cooking something?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the activity have to do with flattening paper/a pair of pants, or a similar activity?

Generating steam relevant?

cooking something?
no to all
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If group 1 had never received the lecture, would they have accomplished the task right away? If group 2 had never received the lecture, would they have taken hours to accomplish the task?
Were they brainwashed!
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If group 1 had never received the lecture, would they have accomplished the task right away? Yes, probably
If group 2 had never received the lecture, would they have taken hours to accomplish the task? probably not
Were they brainwashed!in a manner, this is close enough for the
**********S P O I L E R**********
This experiment was conducted to promote lateral thinking. The task the groups had to perform was for just one person to tie together 2 silk band hanging from the ceiling, too far from each other to just grab and tie them together. The group that hadn't been lectured on the iron quite quickly caught on to tying the iron to one band and give it a good swing. Then that person could grab the second band, catch the iron on the re-swing, and tie the bands together.
I thought I'd let it go here, as the point is not which exact task they had to do (this could probably work with a different setting), but the fact that if you have in-depth knowledge of something, you tend to overlook alternative uses.

BTW, this is my first quiz, how did I do?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I still can't quite visualize that task, but I liked the puzzle. I tend to like puzzles like this more than those that just seem like riddles
(I can run by I don't have legs. Who am I?
Water! HAHAHAHAHA!)

Yeah, I just don't seem to find the fun in things like that.

Keep on doing.
Slameye (Slameye)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks.
Imagine standing in a room, the ceiling is 10 feet above you. 2 silk ribbons hang to the floor, they are 15 feet apart. If you grab one end and hold it, you won't be able to reach the other ribbon. If you have an iron (anything heavy will do) you can tie it to one ribbon (#1), go as far as you can towards ribbon #2, and let go. As the weight swings away with ribbon #1, qickly grab ribbon #2 and return to where you let go of #1. That will swing back almost to the point you let it go, close enough for you to grab that as well. Tie them together, and go to the other classroom and ask what's keeping the other group.

I'll start a new puzzle as soon as I have one.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aha. So I guess there was some rule prohibiting someone from handing someone else the ribbon?
Slameye (Slameye)
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Post Number: 34
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 6:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

yep. It was the hint on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 7:49 pm. But as I said, the task itself isn't that important, the clue is that you can be "brainwashed" with knowledge. I've seen it happen, anyone can if you know what to look for. That's what inventors do
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member
Username: Doctapeppa

Post Number: 1484
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The hint said the "task" was to be performed by one person. Strictly speaking, the "task" was to tie the bands together, so, in keeping with a literal interpretation, someone could have been handed both ribbons, and then tied them by himself. But I may be overly literal with quibbles.

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