| Author | Message | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 322 Registered: 5-2007 |
Don't turn your back. Use a coat. To stave off the usual enquiries, this is not woubit's Christmas puzzle for 2008, which (unlike the Christmas decorations in every London shop) will not appear until December. It is, however, vaguely topical. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 191 Registered: 11-2008 |
If I turned my back, would it work as well? If I used a coat, would it be preferable for me? For you? Anyone else? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1404 Registered: 12-2004 |
Should I not turn my back? Should I use a coat? Are turning my back and using my coat mutually exclusive? Would I be able to accomplish what I would accomplish by turning my back by using a coat? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 323 Registered: 5-2007 |
If I turned my back, would it work as well? it would work just as badly, I conjecture If I used a coat, would it be preferable for me? yes, in certain circumstances that probably do not apply to you personally, though I have no way of knowing For you? no Anyone else? yes | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1405 Registered: 12-2004 |
As I have said before, great minds think | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 324 Registered: 5-2007 |
Should I not turn my back? it would make little difference in your case Should I use a coat? likewise Are turning my back and using my coat mutually exclusive? yes Would I be able to accomplish what I would accomplish by turning my back by using a coat? not on the evidence gathered thus far | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1406 Registered: 12-2004 |
Does the puzzle statement have a specific intended audience? Or is it a universal truth? Could one use a sweater instead of a coat? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 325 Registered: 5-2007 |
Does the puzzle statement have a specific intended audience? yes Or is it a universal truth? no Could one use a sweater instead of a coat? no | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1407 Registered: 12-2004 |
Is the title relevant? If so, in a way that could assist Doctapeppa in solving the puzzle? Or only in a cryptic way that is darkly humorous for you? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1408 Registered: 12-2004 |
Is the specific audience of the puzzle statement an individual? A character whose identity we should ascertain? Or just anyone who finds him or herself in a particular situation, who has a certain profession, who is doing a certain action, or anything else like this? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 326 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is the title relevant? vaguely If so, in a way that could assist Doctapeppa in solving the puzzle? as the great Fats Waller used to say, one never knows, do one? Or only in a cryptic way that is darkly humorous for you? in "darkly humorous" you have hit upon a phrase that may be useful, but I would not spend too much time exploring the title, if I were you | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1409 Registered: 12-2004 |
Turn your back = to forsake? to deny? to rotate the rear of your body? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 327 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is the specific audience of the puzzle statement an individual? no A character whose identity we should ascertain? the audience is a group of individuals whose identity you would do well to ascertain, or you will make little progress Or just anyone who finds him or herself in a particular situation, however, many individuals in the past have formed part of this group, as will many individuals in the future who has a certain profession, not this who is doing a certain action, but this or anything else like this? and this To summarise: the puzzle statement "Don't turn your back - use a coat" is addressed as a piece of advice to people who wish to accomplish a certain goal. These people are not united by being members of the same profession. | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1410 Registered: 12-2004 |
Coat = an outer garment warn on the upper body? Would the target of the puzzle statement be able to use any other article of clothing? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 328 Registered: 5-2007 |
Turn your back = to forsake? to deny? to rotate the rear of your body? this one, or more specifically to turn your body through 180 degrees in the vertical plane | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 329 Registered: 5-2007 |
Coat = an outer garment warn on the upper body? yes Would the target of the puzzle statement be able to use any other article of clothing? no | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1411 Registered: 12-2004 |
Do these people wish to accomplish some kind of action? Break some kind of record? Persuade someone that letterboxing is better than cutting off the portion of the scene that would extend past the edge of the screen? Could people from Norwegian-Americans named Muhammad try to accomplish a certain goal? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1412 Registered: 12-2004 |
Would the people who want to accomplish a certain goal want to turn themselves toward something? Away from something? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 330 Registered: 5-2007 |
Do these people wish to accomplish some kind of action? not all of them - their common cause is that some kind of action be accomplished Break some kind of record? no Persuade someone that letterboxing is better than cutting off the portion of the scene that would extend past the edge of the screen? whatever that is, it is not what they wish should be accomplished Could people from Norwegian-Americans named Muhammad try to accomplish a certain goal? it is possible, though vanishingly unlikely, that a Norwegian-American named Muhammad should wish this goal to be accomplished | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 331 Registered: 5-2007 |
Would the people who want to accomplish a certain goal want to turn themselves toward something? Away from something? neither | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1413 Registered: 12-2004 |
Would one person doing this action be sufficient for the group to reach their goal? Could someone inside the group accomplish the action? Outside the group? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1414 Registered: 12-2004 |
Are any governments involved? Is politics relevant? Do these people want a man to walk on Mars? Could an animal perform the action that they want to be accomplished? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 192 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is temperature relevant? Colour? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1415 Registered: 12-2004 |
Is the action something that could be performed instantaneously? Something that would take several minutes? Months? A year? Longer? Has this action never been performed before? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 332 Registered: 5-2007 |
Would one person doing this action be sufficient for the group to reach their goal? almost certainly not, although I can imagine circumstances in which it might be possible; however, on the occasion that inspired this puzzle, there were a great many coat-users involved Could someone inside the group accomplish the action? no - see below Outside the group? no, but you should view the situation as one in which there is a single group of people divided into one comparatively vast and one comparatively tiny sub-group Are any governments involved? not yet, at any rate Is politics relevant? likewise Do these people want a man to walk on Mars? no Could an animal perform the action that they want to be accomplished? only a particular group of human animals could perform the desired accomplishment | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1417 Registered: 12-2004 |
Would the coat-users wear their coats at any point? Would a London Fog work? Would a collective group be able to accomplish the action? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1418 Registered: 12-2004 |
Is this sci-fi? Could this happen in real life? Is this based on a true story? FYOI? Are the laws of physics overly relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 333 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is temperature relevant? no Colour? yes Is the action something that could be performed instantaneously? no Something that would take several minutes? this one Months? and none of the rest A year? Longer? Has this action never been performed before? no. I would leave you to work out what this means, but I am a kind-hearted woubit, so I will tell you that the action (that is, the accomplishment of the desired goal) has indeed been performed before, and counsel that in future you do not ask "yes-no questions" in the negative. The answers are bound to confuse you more than you are confused already. | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1419 Registered: 12-2004 |
Of course, because there is no way I would be able to understand that the fact that it is not the case that the action has never been performed before leaves only one other possibility... | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 334 Registered: 5-2007 |
Would the coat-users wear their coats at any point? no - good question Would a London Fog work? no Would a collective group be able to accomplish the action? I need to be sure what your references to "the action" mean, so I will attempt what must surely be, in the history of the LTPF, the most immediate *** RECAP *** The advice "Don't turn your back - use a coat" is addressed to a group of people wishing for a certain outcome X. There are a great many people desirous of outcome X, but whether or not X will actually happen is in the hands of a small number of people who form a sub-group of those present. There have been many occasions in the past, and there will be many occasions in the future, to which the circumstances of this puzzle apply. On at least one occasion, the tactic of using (but not wearing) a coat has proved successful in achieving outcome X; on no occasion has the tactic of turning one's back proved successful in achieving outcome X. Is this sci-fi? no Could this happen in real life? it has - see above Is this based on a true story? yes FYOI? the incident on which the puzzle is based occurred in real life; the creation of a puzzle from that incident is the product of my own poor imagination Are the laws of physics overly relevant? they are not | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 335 Registered: 5-2007 |
Of course, because there is no way I would be able to understand that the fact that it is not the case that the action has never been performed before leaves only one other possibility... In English, it is possible to answer the question "Has this never happened before?" thus: "Yes - it has never happened before" or thus: "No, it has never happened before". It is well understood among native English speakers that these two answers have identical meanings. But not only is this an international forum (so that, for example, a speaker of Norwegian or even American might consider a "no" answer to indicate that the event in question really has never happened before), it is also a forum with its own peculiar rules. Strictly speaking, we use only "yes" or "no" to answer questions - we do not add riders such as "it has never happened before". Within the rules, then, I could legitimately answer either "yes" or "no" and confuse at least someone, but that is anathema to the Code of the woubits. I do not seek to belittle your considerable acuity, merely to offer advice of a general nature. | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1422 Registered: 12-2004 |
Indeed! Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation. That's what I always say. Perhaps I shall even phrase my questions as the following: Is it the case that the use of a trench coat could prove successful in achieving outcome x? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 337 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is it the case that the use of a trench coat could prove successful in achieving outcome x? no, but not an unqualified "no" | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1424 Registered: 12-2004 |
Your last post (12:06 AM) I find to be quite hilarious. I don't know if it was intended as such, but this is an example of why you won that award a while back... Is it the case that the use of a sport coat could prove successful in achieving outcome x? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 338 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is it the case that the use of a sport coat could prove successful in achieving outcome x? no - the coat in question is a specific kind of coat | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 194 Registered: 11-2008 |
Santa Claus relevant? Any disguise relevant? Should the coat be used as a protection against something? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1427 Registered: 12-2004 |
A technicolor dream coat? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 195 Registered: 11-2008 |
Invisible cloak? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 339 Registered: 5-2007 |
Santa Claus relevant? no - it is not yet December Any disguise relevant? no Should the coat be used as a protection against something? no - the coat is not actually worn A technicolor dream coat? no Invisible cloak? well, the coat in question cannot be seen, but it is not a coat that renders its wearer invisible | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 197 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is the coat physically present when the people are supposed to "use" it? Uniforms relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 340 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is the coat physically present when the people are supposed to "use" it? no - good question Uniforms relevant? no | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 198 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is it only a reference to the coat which is used? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 341 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is it only a reference to the coat which is used? very much so | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 199 Registered: 11-2008 |
Would the coat only be worn by a specific group of people? Is the purpose of the desired action to protect someone? something? oneself? Coat-turning relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 342 Registered: 5-2007 |
Would the coat only be worn by a specific group of people? yes Is the purpose of the desired action to protect someone? something? oneself? no Coat-turning relevant? no, but good thinking | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1432 Registered: 12-2004 |
So this is some kind of transparent garment... Is it made out of air? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 343 Registered: 5-2007 |
So this is some kind of transparent garment... no, merely an absent garment from the scene in question Is it made out of air? no | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1440 Registered: 12-2004 |
So if the garment that could be used by some unidentified person/people, without wearing it, was present in the location this puzzle takes place, it would be visible? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 344 Registered: 5-2007 |
So if the garment that could be used by some unidentified person/people, without wearing it, was present in the location this puzzle takes place, it would be visible? it would, but this is not quite the right way to think about the situation. You might try the usual avenues, such as finding out more about the people present and the situation they find themselves in. The mystery of the coat will then reveal itself in due course. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 540 Registered: 5-2003 |
Does the term "turncoat" -- meaning traitor -- have any relevance? How many people are involved -- 1, 2, 3, more? Are time period and location relevant? Season of the year relevant? Are the people outdoors or indoors, and is this relevant? Anyone getting injured, killed, inconvenienced, robbed, or arrested in this puzzle? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 541 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is its color relevant? Is it red and white? Is it a Santa coat? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 345 Registered: 5-2007 |
Does the term "turncoat" -- meaning traitor -- have any relevance? no How many people are involved -- 1, 2, 3, more? several thousand Are time period and location relevant? not particularly, though the events of the puzzle could not have occurred before the late nineteenth century Season of the year relevant? no Are the people outdoors this one or indoors, and is this relevant? yes Anyone getting injured, killed, inconvenienced, robbed, or arrested in this puzzle? no crimes are committed, but some inconvenience does occur Is its color relevant? not particularly Is it red and white? no Is it a Santa coat? no | ||
| Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
New member Username: Usmcfink Post Number: 250 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is it santa? an elf? a reindeer? No, I'm kidding, I'm just being a pest =) Sorry, real question time: Do these people span across multiple countries? continents? Were they formed up under this common banner gradually by persuasion? or thrust in on their own accord by a triggering event (ie - as a picture comes up of a seal being clubbed to death, thousands, without central leadership, begin an outcry)? Do these people have a leadership or hierarchy? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 200 Registered: 11-2008 |
Any helping profession (such as doctors, firemen( involved? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 346 Registered: 5-2007 |
Do these people span across multiple countries? continents? yes, but this may mislead - it is easier to think of them as all originating from the same country Were they formed up under this common banner gradually by persuasion? not really or thrust in on their own accord by a triggering event (ie - as a picture comes up of a seal being clubbed to death, thousands, without central leadership, begin an outcry)? not this kind of thing Do these people have a leadership or hierarchy? no Any helping profession (such as doctors, firemen) involved? no | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 472 Registered: 6-2003 |
Is any kind of sport relevant? or, maybe, bullfighting? Does it have to be a specific kind of a coat? if so: would it be distinguishable by its colo(u)r? by its shape? by its material? by its owner? by the purpose for what it is intended? Does the coat have to exist at all in order to be used for accomplishing X? Would it be possible to re-use the same coat (or non-coat) in the same way at some later occasion? Do these people strive for the goal X because it gives them - money? - health and long life? - happiness? - pleasure? - safety? - friends? - satisfaction? - fun? - a chocolate cake? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1452 Registered: 12-2004 |
Who said anything about cake? There is no cake! | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 347 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is any kind of sport relevant? yes or, maybe, bullfighting? but not this one Does it have to be a specific kind of a coat? yes if so: would it be distinguishable by its colo(u)r? no by its shape? not particularly by its material? not particularly by its owner? yes by the purpose for what it is intended? yes Does the coat have to exist at all in order to be used for accomplishing X? no - although it did once have to exist Would it be possible to re-use the same coat (or non-coat) in the same way at some later occasion? yes Do these people strive for the goal X because it gives them - money? - health and long life? - happiness? this one - pleasure? and this one - safety? - friends? - satisfaction? and this one - fun? - a chocolate cake? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1470 Registered: 12-2004 |
Is it the case that goal X is worldwide communism? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 348 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is it the case that goal X is worldwide communism? no | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1472 Registered: 12-2004 |
Is outcome X a state or condition? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1625 Registered: 3-2006 |
Just to check: this (absent) coat is the type of coat worn by humans? Or by animals? Such as a horse or greyhound? A coat of arms? Of paint? Of varnish? Is television relevant? If the hypothetical coat-users do not actually wear the coat, would it help us to determine the way in which they might use the coat? In the hope of achieving happiness and pleasure, would they: drape the coat over something? write about the coat? put the coat on a fire? use a coat to shield themselves? use a coat to shield something else? tear the coat up in some way? wave the coat at a bull? Wormy's Random Guess of the Evening: are they motorists hoping to evade capture by speed cameras? Finally, the happiness and pleasure they wish to attain: is this perhaps: aesthetic pleasure? gustatory pleasure? sensual/sexual pleasure? the joy of companionship/love? satisfaction from achieving justice? some sort of justice? the sort of pleasure one gets from getting away with something naughty? the pleasure of winning at a game or sport? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 349 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is outcome X a state or condition? yes. That is to say, it is a particular state of affairs. Just to check: this (absent) coat is the type of coat worn by humans? yes Or by animals? Such as a horse or greyhound? A coat of arms? Of paint? Of varnish? none of these Is television relevant? no If the hypothetical coat-users do not actually wear the coat, would it help us to determine the way in which they might use the coat? certainly In the hope of achieving happiness and pleasure, would they: drape the coat over something? write about the coat? put the coat on a fire? use a coat to shield themselves? use a coat to shield something else? tear the coat up in some way? wave the coat at a bull? none of these Wormy's Random Guess of the Evening: are they motorists hoping to evade capture by speed cameras? no, but an interesting notion Finally, the happiness and pleasure they wish to attain: is this perhaps: aesthetic pleasure? gustatory pleasure? sensual/sexual pleasure? the joy of companionship/love? satisfaction from achieving justice? some sort of justice? the sort of pleasure one gets from getting away with something naughty? the pleasure of winning at a game or sport? yope. None of the others. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 201 Registered: 11-2008 |
Cloak-and-sword relevant? Do they use the imaginary coat to avoid/distract something? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1627 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is football relevant? Sunderland FC? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 350 Registered: 5-2007 |
Cloak-and-sword relevant? no Do they use the imaginary coat to avoid/distract something? not really, but this is not far from the right forest Is football relevant? yope Sunderland FC? no | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 202 Registered: 11-2008 |
Any ball game relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 351 Registered: 5-2007 |
Any ball game relevant? certainly | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1474 Registered: 12-2004 |
Boccie? Cricket? Tennis? Canadian football? American football? El futbol? Soccer? Rugby? Lawn bowling? Badminton? (it's kind of like a ball) Track and field? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 352 Registered: 5-2007 |
Boccie? Cricket? Tennis? Canadian football? American football? El futbol? Soccer? Rugby? this one - now then... Lawn bowling? Badminton? (it's kind of like a ball) Track and field? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 203 Registered: 11-2008 |
Do I need to know the basics of rugby to be able to solve this puzzle? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 353 Registered: 5-2007 |
Do I need to know the basics of rugby to be able to solve this puzzle? not in the least. But it might help if you knew - as you can easily ascertain, since googling is always permitted in woubit puzzles - the nations where rugby is considered a matter of life or death, and those where it is regarded as more important than that. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1584 Registered: 1-2007 |
Any relevant recent rule changes? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1585 Registered: 1-2007 |
Oh and are England's hideous new jersey's relevant? If not england then Wales? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 354 Registered: 5-2007 |
Any relevant recent rule changes? no - the rules of rugby, then as now, are not relevant in the least. After all, would I lie to Alhucema? Oh and are England's hideous new jersey's relevant? If not england then Wales? they are not, but a good piece of thinking | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1628 Registered: 3-2006 |
Does this have anything to do with the Haka? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 355 Registered: 5-2007 |
Does this have anything to do with the Haka? it does indeed - very good thinking | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 205 Registered: 11-2008 |
After all, would I lie to Alhucema? How kind of you! :-))) It is much more comfortable to wear a dress than perform funny dances? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 356 Registered: 5-2007 |
It is much more comfortable to wear a dress than perform funny dances? never having done either, I am afraid I would not know. But this is not what the puzzle is about. | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1629 Registered: 3-2006 |
Are the putative coat-users also the performers of the Haka? Or are they the NZ supporters? The opposing team? The supporters of the opposing team? The entire crowd? The entire population of NZ? Might a coat be used in teaching the Haka? Or in learning to perform it? Might a coat be used as a means of counteracting the intimidatory effects of the Haka? Considering the title: is the Canadian RU team relevant? The Welsh RU team? Ooops, I am assuming this about RU rather than RL: is this correct? Or would it apply to both forms of the game? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 357 Registered: 5-2007 |
Are the putative coat-users also the performers of the Haka? no Or are they the NZ supporters? no The opposing team? yes - the small group The supporters of the opposing team? yes - the large group The entire crowd? no The entire population of NZ? no Might a coat be used in teaching the Haka? unlikely, but possible - not, however, relevant Or in learning to perform it? likewise Might a coat be used as a means of counteracting the intimidatory effects of the Haka? that is much more like the sort of thing... Considering the title: is the Canadian RU team relevant? no The Welsh RU team? no Ooops, I am assuming this about RU rather than RL: is this correct? Or would it apply to both forms of the game? chiefly to rugby union | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1485 Registered: 12-2004 |
I'm thinking that you just lost me, and probably a couple other Americans who, like me, pay no attention to the eastern hemisphere. So something called "Haka" is relevant? And there is a large group? And a small group? And someone somewhere wants X? Fascism relevant? Would everyone be able to see this particular coat? Would non-colorblind people be able to see it? I know that you said that this coat "cannot be seen"... Is this only under the circumstances of the puzzle? Does this coat emit or reflect any other kind of electromagnetic radiation? Is it a vampire? Or am I just asking stupid questions? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 473 Registered: 6-2003 |
Is the desired outcome to win the match? Have there been examples where the opposing team turned their backs to the All Blacks as response to the Haka? and lost the match? Could they have avoided losing the match with the help of a coat? Is it one coat for the whole team? or one coat for each of them? Are the owner(s) or previous owner(s) of the coat(s) relevant? Is it the Queen's coat? Is the coat red and/or white? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 358 Registered: 5-2007 |
I'm thinking that you just lost me, and probably a couple other Americans who, like me, pay no attention to the eastern hemisphere. as I have remarked, googling is permitted in all woubit puzzles, but a brief description follows So something called "Haka" is relevant? the Haka is a Maori war song traditionally performed by the New Zealand rugby union international side shortly before kick-off And there is a large group? there is - it consists of that portion of the crowd who support New Zealand's opponents And a small group? there is - it consists of the players who are New Zealand's opponents on the pitch And someone somewhere wants X? both the large group and the small group want the same thing, which is that their team should win and New Zealand, therefore, should lose Fascism relevant? no Would everyone be able to see this particular coat? no particular coat is actually present, so no one would be able to see it Would non-colorblind people be able to see it? no I know that you said that this coat "cannot be seen"... Is this only under the circumstances of the puzzle? the coat in question can no longer be seen anywhere at all Does this coat emit or reflect any other kind of electromagnetic radiation? no Is it a vampire? no Or am I just asking stupid questions? not paricularly, but you seem on occasion to forget that what you know about cake may also be true of this coat - it is not there | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 359 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is the desired outcome to win the match? very much so Have there been examples where the opposing team turned their backs to the All Blacks as response to the Haka? and lost the match? certainly there have - well done Could they have avoided losing the match with the help of a coat? the evidence of at least one occasion supports this view, yes Is it one coat for the whole team? or one coat for each of them? it is one and the same coat for all of them - players and supporters alike Are the owner(s) or previous owner(s) of the coat(s) relevant? yes Is it the Queen's coat? no Is the coat red and/or white? this is not actually recorded, but one imagines that it was probably either brown or grey. A coat-coloured sort of coat, one might say. | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1488 Registered: 12-2004 |
Is it the case that this coat has been completely removed from the time-space continuum? Or just that the atoms that made up the coat underwent some sort of physical/chemical reaction that would result in the particular coat that is relevant to the puzzle no longer in existence? In using the coat, would one talk about it? Sing a song about it? Use it like a mnemonic device to remember some specific information that would be useful to spectators that don't like the New Zealand rugby union international side? Is making a reference to the coat anything like when a certain group of feudal warriors say, "Ni!"? Is it like how the Prussians said, "Remember thee, à la mode!" when they ordered anything with ice cream? Is any other Maori war song relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 360 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is it the case that this coat has been completely removed from the time-space continuum? no Or just that the atoms that made up the coat underwent some sort of physical/chemical reaction that would result in the particular coat that is relevant to the puzzle no longer in existence? no In using the coat, would one talk about it? Sing a song about it? this one - good question Use it like a mnemonic device to remember some specific information that would be useful to spectators that don't like the New Zealand rugby union international side? Is making a reference to the coat anything like when a certain group of feudal warriors say, "Ni!"? not altogether unlike this, for very vague values indeed of "feudal" Is it like how the Prussians said, "Remember thee, à la mode!" when they ordered anything with ice cream? no Is any other Maori war song relevant? no | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1588 Registered: 1-2007 |
In the instance where use of a coat could have helped avoid defeat was this a recent match? Is the recent match between Munster and the All Blacks relevant? 4 of the munster players were Kiwis and joined in the Haka? I only ask because Munster wear red and as an Irishman they are about the only source of national pride at the moment. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 361 Registered: 5-2007 |
In the instance where use of a coat could have helped avoid defeat was this a recent match? there may be a little confusion here, sorry. The notion is that the use of a coat (now known to involve singing about the coat) actually did help a particular team (as yet unknown) to defeat the All Blacks on an occasion that was not recent, and the inference is that it might do so again. Is the recent match between Munster and the All Blacks relevant? no, nor could it have been - the team that used a coat to defeat the All Blacks was not Irish 4 of the Munster players were Kiwis and joined in the Haka? I only ask because Munster wear red and as an Irishman they are about the only source of national pride at the moment. Oh, I don't know. You've got a pretty good bridge team. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1589 Registered: 1-2007 |
Ok so there was an not recent instance of a team and it's supporters singing a song about a coat (or one that contained a reference to a coat) while the Kiwis were performing the Haka and this was seen to have been of assistance to them in winning the match. Is that correct? Were the New Zealand players offended by the song? frightened by it? distracted off by it? Did it prevent them completing the Haka? or otherwise affect their pre match routine? Did their opposition prey on a Maori superstition? Is the song particularly well known thoughout the world or primarily in one country? Is this a club, provincial or internation team that beat them? Southern or northern hemisphere? Do they in fact wear Red & White? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 362 Registered: 5-2007 |
Ok so there was a not-recent instance of a team and its supporters singing a song about a coat (or one that contained a reference to a coat) while the Kiwis were performing the Haka and this was seen to have been of assistance to them in winning the match. Is that correct? couldn't have put it better myself Were the New Zealand players offended by the song? not particularly - the purpose was not so much to offend the All Blacks as to give heart to their opponents frightened by it? no - it is not an especially frightening song distracted off by it? no Did it prevent them completing the Haka? no or otherwise affect their pre match routine? no Did their opposition prey on a Maori superstition? no Is the song particularly well known thoughout the world or primarily in one country? the song is known the world over, but it is particularly associated with one country Is this a club, provincial or international this one team that beat them? Southern this one or northern hemisphere? Do they in fact wear Red & White? they do not | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 474 Registered: 6-2003 |
"Waltzing Matilda" relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 363 Registered: 5-2007 |
"Waltzing Matilda" relevant? very much so | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1590 Registered: 1-2007 |
So the Australian Team and their supporters sang Waltzing Matilda during the Haka and this helped in their victory .. yes? Can't recall mention of a coat in the song so did they change the words in any way? Unless it's a wooly coat from a Jumbuck which is a sheep i believe? Anything to with sheep and their prevelance in New Zealand? | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1499 Registered: 12-2004 |
Is it December yet? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 364 Registered: 5-2007 |
So the Australian Team and their supporters sang Waltzing Matilda during the Haka and this helped in their victory .. yes? yes, indeed Can't recall mention of a coat in the song quaerendo invenientis so did they change the words in any way? no Unless it's a wooly coat from a Jumbuck which is a sheep i believe? a jumbuck is indeed a sheep, and... Anything to with sheep and their prevelance in New Zealand? no Is it December yet? it is, and the woubit Christmas puzzle for 2008 will appear shortly | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 475 Registered: 6-2003 |
<piece_of_useless_knowledge> The term Waltzing Matilda refers to a large bag in which tramps and wandering people carried their belongings. Sometimes instead of the bag a blanket or a coat was used; during day for carrying things, and during night to shelter oneself from the cold. So, Waltzing Matilda itself might refer to a coat. The origins of the term Waltzing Matilda itself are unclear. Some claim the expression has been coined by immigrants from Germany -- this relies mainly on the connotation Walz, auf der Walz sein (= to travel around, to wander, said, for instance, about journeymen). On the other hand, Matilda is not a very typical German name. </piece_of_useless_knowledge> Is the song Waltzing Matilda the coat that was used here? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1592 Registered: 1-2007 |
Determined not to look up your latin phrase but I think it means "have a closer look" Ok some q's.. Are sheep relevant? Rucksacks or anything similar? Troopers? Drowning? Eric Bogle? in case you think I googled this, my party piece at inevitable Irish sing songs is "the band played waltzing matilda" which i learned from my mother when I was just 7 years of age. I still haven't heard or sang a better anti war song Meanwhile back at the puzzle. If the Aussies sang this each time they played teh Kiwis would they on each occasion improve their chances or were the circumstances of this particular match special? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 365 Registered: 5-2007 |
The term Waltzing Matilda refers to a large bag in which tramps and wandering people carried their belongings. Sometimes instead of the bag a blanket or a coat was used; during day for carrying things, and during night to shelter oneself from the cold. So, Waltzing Matilda itself might refer to a coat. The origins of the term Waltzing Matilda itself are unclear. Some claim the expression has been coined by immigrants from Germany -- this relies mainly on the connotation Walz, auf der Walz sein (= to travel around, to wander, said, for instance, about journeymen). On the other hand, Matilda is not a very typical German name. Is the song Waltzing Matilda the coat that was used here? close enough. ***** SPOILER ***** The first New Zealand rugby union team to visit Australia in 1884 performed a Haka (a Maori war dance accompanied by a menacing song) before each of its matches. Since then, the Haka has been part of All Black tradition, performed before every international fixture. The All Blacks (the New Zealand playing uniform is an all black strip) are the most successful rugby team of all time, and opponents have attempted various ways to counter the psychological effect of the Haka for over a century. Some of these have met with little success. In 1996, the Australians turned their backs on their mighty opponents and carried out a warm-up drill while the Haka was going on. They lost by a considerable margin. In 1999, the Wallabies (the name for the Australian rugby team) came up with a different ploy. No sooner had the Haka ended than the players and most of the 107,000 strong crowd lifted their voices in a spirited rendition of the unofficial National Anthem of Australia, the song Waltzing Matilda. As Sundowner says, Waltzing Matilda is not about a waltz, nor about a woman named Matilda. It concerns a jolly swagman (an itinerant farm labourer) who trudged from town to town and farm to farm across the Outback looking for work. He carried on his back all his worldly belongings, wrapped in a blanket or a greatcoat. Although it is commonly believed that the early Australian settlers were all British convicts, many were in fact Germans, among them several ex-soldiers seeking their fortune in a far-off land. Infantrymen often gave a female name to the covering that kept them warm at night, and Matilda was a name used for their coats by these Teutonic swagmen as they went auf der Walz. Australia beat New Zealand 28-7, a record humbling for the proud All Blacks. So, if you find yourself chosen to play for your country at rugby against New Zealand, and you want to defeat the Haka, don't turn your back. Use a coat. Well done everyone. The Christmas puzzle will, as I say, be with you soon. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 366 Registered: 5-2007 |
Determined not to look up your latin phrase but I think it means "have a closer look" apologies, Peter - you were posting while I was typing. "Quaerendo invenientis" is usually translated "Seek and [literally: by seeking] you shall find". Ok some q's.. dealt with above | ||
| Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
New member Username: Doctapeppa Post Number: 1501 Registered: 12-2004 |
That was going to be my next guess. | ||
| Slameye (Slameye)
New member Username: Slameye Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2008 |
I liked the puzzle. Nice twist with the "coat", and educational as well. Thanks. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 1593 Registered: 1-2007 |
Nice Puzzle Woubit. Sports puzzles always welcome and as i'm sure your Christmas one will be. |
