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Admin (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 712
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jack was clearly the best player but could not be the captain. Why not?

An easy one inspired by a TV programme I saw recently.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1073
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sports involved? Was he on the opposing team? Was there already a captain? Did he not meet some qualification for captaincy other than excellence of play? He was good at playing singly but didn't have the tactical mind it takes to run other players besides himself? Was the captain on the field? By captain do you mean captain of the team? Was this a team sport?
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Post Number: 98
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jack = HAM?
Captain: Of a sports team? In the military? Some other type of team? Not a team at all?
If sports: Indoor sport? Outdoor? Contact sport?
If military: Branch relevant? Country relevant?
If other type of team: Academic? Social? Musical?

Is it because of Jack's position/role on the team?
Is it because of Jack's gender?

Is Jack even on the team?
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 713
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jen,

Sports involved?
YES

Was he on the opposing team?
NO

Was there already a captain?
YES BUT IRRELEVANT

Did he not meet some qualification for captaincy other than excellence of play?
CORRECT

He was good at playing singly but didn't have the tactical mind it takes to run other players besides himself?
NO

Was the captain on the field? By captain do you mean captain of the team? Was this a team sport?
YES, YES, YES
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 714
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CAESAR,

Jack = HAM?
HUMAN, ADULT, MALE - YES

Captain: Of a sports team?
YES

In the military?
NO

Some other type of team? Not a team at all?
NO

If sports: Indoor sport? Outdoor?
NO, YES

Contact sport?
NO

If military: Branch relevant? Country relevant?
If other type of team: Academic? Social? Musical?
NOT MILITARY

Is it because of Jack's position/role on the team?
NO

Is it because of Jack's gender?
NO

Is Jack even on the team?
YES
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1914
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Jack's surname relevant? Would the result of combining it with Captain have a funny outcome? Was his name something like Cooke? Blythe? Darling? Blackadder?

Would his being made captain have led to him getting a ribbing from teammates or opponents?
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Post Number: 99
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a high school team? University-level? Semi-pro? Pro? Club?
If school: Did Jack not meet some GPA/grades mark? Was he not taking enough classes? Was he too old?
If non-school: Is the reason for him not being captain political (either team or national politics)?

Did he not pay his membership fees? Any other fees that might be relevant?
Was he in trouble for violating some rule, regulation, or law?
Is he in trouble for drug use? Steroids? Other?

Is it relevant what sport it was? Football (soccer in America)? Cross-country? Track/Athletics? Skiing? Snowboarding? Swimming? Diving? Tennis? Table tennis? Baseball? Softball? Cricket?
Is it in the Summer Olympics? Winter Olympics? (Assume the 2008 and 2006 Games, respectively.)
Has it ever been an Olympic sport (in antiquity or otherwise)?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1076
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he play the wrong position (for example, it is traditional for the pitcher to be captain in baseball)?

Does the location matter? Time period? Is there any quality Jack does not share with his teammates? Is it illegal for him to be captain? If so, by a sports regulation, or according to law? Is he too junior? Has he violated any regulation of sports? Any law?
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 715
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 8:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter,

Is Jack's surname relevant?
NO

Would the result of combining it with Captain have a funny outcome? Was his name something like Cooke? Blythe? Darling? Blackadder?
CLEVER IDEA BUT WRONG

Would his being made captain have led to him getting a ribbing from teammates or opponents?
NO
Admin (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 716
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CAESAR,

Was it a high school team? University-level? Semi-pro? Pro? Club?
NO

If school: Did Jack not meet some GPA/grades mark? Was he not taking enough classes? Was he too old?

If non-school: Is the reason for him not being captain political (either team or national politics)?
YES

Did he not pay his membership fees? Any other fees that might be relevant?
Was he in trouble for violating some rule, regulation, or law?
Is he in trouble for drug use? Steroids? Other?
NO TO THOSE

Is it relevant what sport it was? Football (soccer in America)? Cross-country? Track/Athletics? Skiing? Snowboarding? Swimming? Diving? Tennis? Table tennis? Baseball? Softball?
NO

Cricket?
YES

Is it in the Summer Olympics? Winter Olympics? (Assume the 2008 and 2006 Games, respectively.)
NO

Has it ever been an Olympic sport (in antiquity or otherwise)?
YES
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 717
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

JEN,

Did he play the wrong position (for example, it is traditional for the pitcher to be captain in baseball)?
NO

Does the location matter?
YES

Time period?
YES

Is there any quality Jack does not share with his teammates?
PLEASE REPHRASE

Is it illegal for him to be captain?
NO

If so, by a sports regulation, or according to law? Is he too junior? Has he violated any regulation of sports? Any law?
NO
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Post Number: 103
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Location: England? India? North America? South America? Africa? South Africa? Asia? Southeast Asia?
Europe?

Time Period: 2000's? 1990's? 1980's? 1970's? 1960's? 1950's? 1940's? 1930's? 1920's? 1910's? 1900's? Before 1900?

Is the reason team politics? National politics? Regional politics? Local Politics? Racial/ethnic politics? Class politics?
Indianforce (Indianforce)
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Username: Indianforce

Post Number: 46
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something related to Apartheid?
Admin (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 718
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Caesar,

Location: England?
YES

India? North America? South America? Africa? South Africa? Asia? Southeast Asia?
Europe?
NO

Time Period: 2000's? 1990's? 1980's? 1970's? 1960's? 1950's? 1940's?
NO

1930's? 1920's? 1910's?
YES

1900's? Before 1900?
YES BUT NOT JACK

Is the reason team politics? National politics? Regional politics? Local Politics? Racial/ethnic politics?
NO

Class politics?
YES
Admin (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 719
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

INDIANFORCE

Something related to Apartheid?

NO
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 65
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Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Jack's nationality relevant? His place of birth? His social class (e.g. being or not being a nobleman)?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1915
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Indian Caste tradition relevant?
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 720
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr and Peter,

Is Jack's nationality relevant? His place of birth?
NO

His social class (e.g. being or not being a nobleman)?
NOT DIRECTLY

Is the Indian Caste tradition relevant?
NO
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1079
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 2:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK. Jack plays cricket in England in the early part of the 20th century. He is the best player on his team, but cannot be captain of the team. Social class has something to do with this, but indirectly. Correct?

He is the best cricket player, or the best player of some other sport or game?
By player you mean sportsman and not, say, the best at girl-chasing?
Cannot be captain, should not, or may not?

Class has something to do with:

- who his family was?
- whether he was nouveau riche?
- His social rank?
- His education?

Was he ever actually considered for the captaincy? Is he aware of the reasons for his being ineligible or turned down? Does he accept these reasons, or resent them?

Was his class different than that of his teammates? The spectators? Someone else? If so, was his class higher or lower than theirs?

Does this difference still apply today to cricket players? Is what kept Jack from the captaincy a written or unwritten rule? Is anyone relevant hostile to Jack? Is anyone relevant other than people on his own team? Anything? Any place?
Admin (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 721
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jen,

OK. Jack plays cricket in England in the early part of the 20th century. He is the best player on his team, but cannot be captain of the team. Social class has something to do with this, but indirectly. Correct?
CORRECT

He is the best cricket player, or the best player of some other sport or game?
YES, NO

By player you mean sportsman and not, say, the best at girl-chasing?
CORRECT

Cannot be captain, should not, or may not?
CANNOT, SHOULD BE, MAY NOT

Class has something to do with:

- who his family was?
- whether he was nouveau riche?
- His social rank?
- His education?
INDIRECTLY BUT NOT DIRECTLY

Was he ever actually considered for the captaincy?
NO

Is he aware of the reasons for his being ineligible or turned down? Does he accept these reasons, or resent them?
YES, YES, PROBABLY NOT

Was his class different than that of his teammates?
SOME - YES

The spectators?
NO

Someone else? If so, was his class higher or lower than theirs?
LOWER

Does this difference still apply today to cricket players?
NO

Is what kept Jack from the captaincy a written or unwritten rule?
DON'T KNOW

Is anyone relevant hostile to Jack?
NOT AT ALL

Is anyone relevant other than people on his own team?
YES

Anything? Any place?
NO TO THOSE I THINK
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1916
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are any of the duties that a captain performs relevant? Does this have anything to do with the coin toss? setting the field? declaring?
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 722
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter,

Are any of the duties that a captain performs relevant? Does this have anything to do with the coin toss? setting the field? declaring?
NO
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1917
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Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is military service relevant at all?
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 723
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter,

Is military service relevant at all?
NO
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 75
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Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other people than his team are relevant. the teams they play against? Spectators? People involved in organising the matches? The press? People financing the team?

If Jack would have been in another cricket team of comparable strength, would he probably have been excluded from captainship, too?
Admin (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 724
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 9:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr,

Other people than his team are relevant.
CORRECT

the teams they play against? Spectators? People involved in organising the matches? The press? People financing the team?
NO

If Jack would have been in another cricket team of comparable strength, would he probably have been excluded from captainship, too?
IN ENGLAND YES
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1086
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the other relevant people involved with the sport at all? Or is their effect on Jack's team secondary? Have they ever even heard of Jack?
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Username: Caesarachilles

Post Number: 104
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Jack's citizenship relevant? Can he not play because he's not an English citizen? Because he is an English citizen? Is it a national team (e.g. of England, Wales, Scotland, etc.)?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 85
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could Jack's status theoretically change so he would become eligible to be captain? Would this require the deliberate action of one or several persons (e.g. the granting of an order, the appointment to a military position)? Or could the change be achieved otherwise (e.g. Jack makes an invention and becomes a wealthy businessman, Jack wins big in a lottery)?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1918
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Jack's age relevant?
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 725
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jen,

Are the other relevant people involved with the sport at all?
YES

Or is their effect on Jack's team secondary?
NO

Have they ever even heard of Jack?
YES
Admin (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 726
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CAESAR,

Is Jack's citizenship relevant?
NO

Can he not play because he's not an English citizen?
INCORRECT

Because he is an English citizen?
THAT IS NOT THE REASON

Is it a national team (e.g. of England, Wales, Scotland, etc.)?
YES
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 727
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Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MARK,

Could Jack's status theoretically change so he would become eligible to be captain?
I THINK NOT

Would this require the deliberate action of one or several persons (e.g. the granting of an order, the appointment to a military position)? Or could the change be achieved otherwise (e.g. Jack makes an invention and becomes a wealthy businessman, Jack wins big in a lottery)?
NO OR IRRELEVANT
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 728
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter,

Is Jack's age relevant?
NO
Caesarachilles (Caesarachilles)
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Post Number: 109
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it the national team of England? Scotland? Wales? Ireland? Somewhere else?

Is it relevant how Jack got to be on the team in the first place? Was he selected from a school team? "Off the streets"? From another team? Family connections? Some other way?
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 729
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Caesar,

Is it the national team of England?
YES

Scotland? Wales? Ireland? Somewhere else?
NO

Is it relevant how Jack got to be on the team in the first place?
NOT REALLY

Was he selected from a school team? "Off the streets"?
NO

From another team?
YES

Family connections? Some other way?
NO
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1921
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Jack already represented another country? (I notice you've poached another Irish cricketer!!!!!)
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 730
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 8:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter,

Had Jack already represented another country?
NO

I notice you've poached another Irish cricketer!!!!
WE NEED THEM MORE THAN YOU DO!
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Post Number: 761
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 8:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Jack white? Was he born a British citizen? Are british citizens allowed to be Captains?

To be clear, the best player could not be captain of the team he was a member of correct?
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Post Number: 762
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 8:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And jack and his team's captain are both citizens and members of England, not an offshoot of another country or area that is ruled by the British Empire?
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 731
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Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BOLAPARA,

Is Jack white? Was he born a British citizen? Are british citizens allowed to be Captains?
YES, YES, YES

To be clear, the best player could not be captain of the team he was a member of correct?
CORRECT

And jack and his team's captain are both citizens and members of England, not an offshoot of another country or area that is ruled by the British Empire?
CORRECT

NATIONALITY AND CITIZENSHIP ARE NOT FACTORS HERE
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1922
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Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Jack's inability to become captain hold for all forms of the game? if not for Test Matches? One day? T20?

This is a toughie
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1923
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Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for last question just realised that this happened back in the 30s so please disregard the above.
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Post Number: 772
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Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does someone like me, who knows nothing about cricket and little to nothing about the politics of the era in England, have any chance at all of getting this puzzle?
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 732
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Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BOLAPARA,

Does someone like me, who knows nothing about cricket and little to nothing about the politics of the era in England, have any chance at all of getting this puzzle?

YES - WITH INTELLIGENT QUESTIONING ANYONE COULD GET IT. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RULES, TACTICS OR DETAILED WORKINGS OF THE GAME OF CRICKET. IT HAS TO DO WITH ATTITUDES AND CUSTOMS.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Post Number: 506
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Jack's religion relevant? (Is he Jewish?)
His ethnicity?
His family background?
His political position? (Is he anti-monarchy?)
The public opinion about Jack?
The university or college where he studied?
Did he say or do something in the past that now prevents him from becoming captain?
Does he have a relevant criminal record?
Did he refuse to do military service?
Did it require to be member of a particular organization (or have a rank in military?) in order to become the captain of the British national cricket team?
Is Jack a professional cricket player? if not, is his profession relevant?
Is it the Olympic cricket team? relevant? Was Jack not allowed to be the captain of the Olympic cricket team because he was a professional?
Did Jack accept not to become captain? Did he want to become captain at all?
Relevant who became captain instead of Jack?
Admin (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 733
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

SUNDOWNER

Is Jack's religion relevant? (Is he Jewish?)
His ethnicity?
His family background?
His political position? (Is he anti-monarchy?)
The public opinion about Jack?
The university or college where he studied?
Did he say or do something in the past that now prevents him from becoming captain?
Does he have a relevant criminal record?
Did he refuse to do military service?
Did it require to be member of a particular organization (or have a rank in military?) in order to become the captain of the British national cricket team?
NO TO ALL THOSE

Is Jack a professional cricket player?
YES

Is it the Olympic cricket team? relevant?
NO

Was Jack not allowed to be the captain of the Olympic cricket team because he was a professional?
IT IS NOT THE OLYMPIC TEAM BUT THE NATIONAL TEAM

Did Jack accept not to become captain?
YES

Did he want to become captain at all?
PROBABLY

Relevant who became captain instead of Jack?
NOT REALLY
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Jack's inability to be captain due to something which was determined from his birth? Something Jack did (or didn't do) later? Something that happened to Jack later?
Admin (Admin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mark,

Is Jack's inability to be captain due to something which was determined from his birth?
NOT DIRECTLY

Something Jack did (or didn't do) later?
YES

Something that happened to Jack later?
NOT REALLY
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant thing something he didn't do?

Is Jack's schooling relevant? His profession before he became a professional cricket player?
Admin (Admin)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr

Is the relevant thing something he didn't do?
NO

Is Jack's schooling relevant? His profession before he became a professional cricket player?
NO
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner asked "Did he say or do something in the past that now prevents him from becoming captain?", and got a NO. I asked whether Jack's inability to be captain was due to something he did (or didn't do) after his birth, got a YES and then a NO to the question whether the relevant thing is something he didn't do.

So his inability to be captain is due to something he did, but what he did doesn't prevent him from becoming captain. Would something Jack did prevent him from staying captain? From being useful as a captain?
Admin (Admin)
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Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 7:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr,

Sundowner asked "Did he say or do something in the past that now prevents him from becoming captain?", and got a NO. I asked whether Jack's inability to be captain was due to something he did (or didn't do) after his birth, got a YES and then a NO to the question whether the relevant thing is something he didn't do.

So his inability to be captain is due to something he did, but what he did doesn't prevent him from becoming captain. Would something Jack did prevent him from staying captain? From being useful as a captain?

LET ME CLARIFY. JACK COULD NOT BECOME CAPTAIN BECAUSE OF SOMETHING HE WAS. HE HAD BECOME THIS THROUGH DECISIONS HE HAD TAKEN. IT WAS NOT ONE SPECIFIC STATEMENT OR ONE SPECIFIC ACTION IN THE SENSE THAT I THINK SUNDOWNER MEANT.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Jack initially of a different class? and became a different class? and thus ineligible to be captain? Through a custom that said only people of a certain type? Social class? could be Captain?

Did he know that this decision would lead to his being ineligible?

Does the decision he made affect others, or just him? For example, had he married someone, or gotten divorced?

Oh, except you said it wasn't one specific action. Perhaps a single decision that changed his entire life, not just one aspect (like, say, a decision to go to university)?
Admin (Admin)
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Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Jack initially of a different class?
YES BUT THIS IS NOT THE FUNDAMENTAL REASON

and became a different class?
SORT OF

and thus ineligible to be captain?
YES

Through a custom that said only people of a certain type?
YES

Social class? could be Captain?
INDIRECTLY

Did he know that this decision would lead to his being ineligible?
YES

Does the decision he made affect others, or just him? For example, had he married someone, or gotten divorced?
JUST HIM

Oh, except you said it wasn't one specific action. Perhaps a single decision that changed his entire life, not just one aspect (like, say, a decision to go to university)?
HE MADE A CHOICE
Bolapara (Bolapara)
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Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it because of who he married?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Jack not allowed to be the captain of the English national test cricket team because he was a professional?
Admin (Admin)
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Post Number: 738
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Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

* * * SPOILER * * *

Sundowner:

Was Jack not allowed to be the captain of the English national test cricket team because he was a professional?

Correct. Sir Jack Hobbs (1882 - 1963) was probably England's best ever batsman. He scored more first class centuries (199) than any other player. He played for England many times but because he was a professional player he could not be captain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Hobbs

In those days there was a division between gentlemen (amateurs) and players (professionals). They had different dressing rooms. There was an annual match between the gentlemen and the players. Only a gentleman could be captain of England.

It was not until Len Hutton became captain in the 1950s that a professional led the England team.

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