| Author | Message | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 709 Registered: 5-2003 |
He couldn't read Hebrew, so he lost his job. | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1284 Registered: 4-2007 |
He = H/A/M? first he=second he=his? Did he work in a Hebrew-speaking country? For a Hebrew-speaking boss/company? Had he ever claimed to be able to read Hebrew? Did somebody relevant to this puzzle wrongly believe him to be able to read Hebrew? He couldn't read it, but could he speak it? Relevant? Did he fail to read something important which was written in Hebrew? Did this mean he did something which caused him to lose his job? Didn't do something he should have done? Did something wrong? I'm guessing it would help to find his exact job? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 710 Registered: 5-2003 |
He = H/A/M? Yes. first he=second he=his? Yes. Did he work in a Hebrew-speaking country? No. For a Hebrew-speaking boss/company? Yope. Had he ever claimed to be able to read Hebrew? No. Did somebody relevant to this puzzle wrongly believe him to be able to read Hebrew? No. He couldn't read it, but could he speak it? No. Relevant? No. Did he fail to read something important which was written in Hebrew? Yes. Did this mean he did something which caused him to lose his job? Yes. Didn't do something he should have done? No. Did something wrong? Yes. I'm guessing it would help to find his exact job? Yes. | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1285 Registered: 4-2007 |
Soo... Artistic / musical / writer Banking / financial / real estate Clerical / Administrative Computer related / Hardware Construction / Craftsman Criminal / Questionable Repute Education / Academic Research Entertainment / Media Environmental / Outdoors / Nature Executive / Management Hospitality / Travel Legal Services Manufacturing / Distributions Medical / Health Services Politics / Government / Military Sales / Marketing Technical / Science / Engineering Teaching / Child care Transportation Food Service Other Was the thing in Hebrew instructions? A sign? A warning? A letter? A memo? Was it given to him with the intention that he should read it? Did the wrong thing he did cause damage to his employer's property? Injure anyone? Kill anyone? Was it illegal? Dangerous? Cause his employer to look bad? Did he do the wrong thing whilst acting as a representative of the company? Is it worth exploring how he got into a situation requiring him to read Hebrew, despite not living in a Hebrew-speaking country? Is the fact that it is Hebrew specifically relevant or could it theoretically be any language he doesn't know? Are any particular features of Hebrew relevant? | ||
| Smartyllama (Smartyllama)
New member Username: Smartyllama Post Number: 95 Registered: 1-2009 |
Was he Jewish? Was his job related to Judaism? Was he doing something related to Judaism when he did the thing that caused him to lose his job? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 711 Registered: 5-2003 |
Artistic / musical / writer Banking / financial / real estate Clerical / Administrative Computer related / Hardware Construction / Craftsman Criminal / Questionable Repute Education / Academic Research Entertainment / Media Environmental / Outdoors / Nature Executive / Management Hospitality / Travel Legal Services Manufacturing / Distributions Medical / Health Services Politics / Government Hmmm... this is closest./ Military Sales / Marketing Technical / Science / Engineering Teaching / Child care Transportation Food Service Other Was the thing in Hebrew instructions? A sign? This. A warning? A letter? A memo? Was it given to him with the intention that he should read it? No. Did the wrong thing he did cause damage to his employer's property? No. Injure anyone? No. Kill anyone? No. Was it illegal? No. Dangerous? No. Cause his employer to look bad? No. Did he do the wrong thing whilst acting as a representative of the company? Yes. Is it worth exploring how he got into a situation requiring him to read Hebrew, despite not living in a Hebrew-speaking country? Yes. Is the fact that it is Hebrew specifically relevant This. or could it theoretically be any language he doesn't know? Are any particular features of Hebrew relevant? Yes, but you don't necessarily have to be familiar with it. Was he Jewish? No. Was his job related to Judaism? No. Was he doing something related to Judaism when he did the thing that caused him to lose his job? Yes. | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1286 Registered: 4-2007 |
Is it relevant that Hebrew has a different alphabet to English? Are its religious connections relevant? The fact that it was brought back after being basically a dead language? Is the man's mother tongue English? Relevant? Did the man offend someone Jewish? Was he in a synagogue when he did this thing? In some other place connected to Judaism? | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 668 Registered: 12-2007 |
Is it relevant that Hebrew is written from right to left? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 712 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is it relevant that Hebrew has a different alphabet to English? Yes. Are its religious connections relevant? No. The fact that it was brought back after being basically a dead language? No. Is the man's mother tongue English? Yes. Relevant? Yes. Did the man offend someone Jewish? Yes. Was he in a synagogue when he did this thing? No. In some other place connected to Judaism? No. Is it relevant that Hebrew is written from right to left? No. | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1287 Registered: 4-2007 |
Did he offend the Jewish person directly by not understanding the Hebrew? Is a misunderstanding involved? Did the sign warn not to do something? Would the thing he did have offended anyone Jewish? Is there more we should discover about the person (people?) he offended? Were they his employer? Coworker? Customer? Did he realise the sign was words at all? Did he think it was just symbols? Get it confused with another non-western alphabet? Did he think he understood it but didn't? The reason why it is relevant that the man's mother tongue is English: becuase of countries where English is spoken? because of the alphabet? Could he theoretically have been a speaker of another language using the same alphabet as English? Did this take place in the UK? US? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 713 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did he offend the Jewish person directly by not understanding the Hebrew? No. Is a misunderstanding involved? Yes. Did the sign warn not to do something? No. Would the thing he did have offended anyone Jewish? \b[No.} Is there more we should discover about the person (people?) he offended? Yes. Were they his employer? Coworker? This is closest. Customer? Did he realise the sign was words at all? Yes. Did he think it was just symbols? No. Get it confused with another non-western alphabet? No. Did he think he understood it but didn't? Yope. The reason why it is relevant that the man's mother tongue is English: becuase of countries where English is spoken? Yes. because of the alphabet? No. Could he theoretically have been a speaker of another language using the same alphabet as English? No. Did this take place in the UK? This. US? | ||
| Bolapara (Bolapara)
New member Username: Bolapara Post Number: 280 Registered: 12-2008 |
Is the word god (written in hebrew) relevant? Did he make markings on the sign? Otherwise do something to the sign that would offend a religious Jew? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 715 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is the word god (written in hebrew) relevant? Did he make markings on the sign? Otherwise do something to the sign that would offend a religious Jew? No to all. | ||
| Vene (Vene)
New member Username: Vene Post Number: 85 Registered: 9-2008 |
Did the sign contain only hebrew? Did it contain english too? Did he wrongly pull meaning from context? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 716 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did the sign contain only hebrew? Yes. Did it contain english too? No. Did he wrongly pull meaning from context? Something like that, yes. | ||
| Vene (Vene)
New member Username: Vene Post Number: 88 Registered: 9-2008 |
So the context wasn't some english text. Did he think it was a sign he would usually see in such a place? (like say, a keep off the grass sign in a little park) | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 720 Registered: 5-2003 |
So the context wasn't some english text. Correct. Did he think it was a sign he would usually see in such a place? (like say, a keep off the grass sign in a little park) Irrelevant. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 729 Registered: 5-2003 |
The location, the time period, and the man's job are all relevant. As a hint, I expect that Peter365 may be familiar with this particular story. | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 281 Registered: 9-2008 |
Does this take place in Ireland? Is the century relevant? (If so, insert LTPF list of centuries.) Did he work for the Irish government? England's government? some other country? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 757 Registered: 5-2003 |
Does this take place in Ireland? Yes, it does. Is the century relevant? (If so, insert LTPF list of centuries.) Yes, late 19th-early 20th. Did he work for the Irish government? England's government? some other country? Irrelevant. Assume an ordinary "bobby." Sounds like you know this one, Kaygee, so please don't give it away! :p | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 286 Registered: 9-2008 |
Actually, I didn't know this one. Your hint was just THAT GOOD! | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 777 Registered: 5-2003 |
Ah, good point. | ||
| Absinthe (Absinthe)
New member Username: Absinthe Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2009 |
"Bobby"... so he's a policeman? Did he try to arrest someone? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 793 Registered: 5-2003 |
"Bobby"... so he's a policeman? Yes. Did he try to arrest someone? Yes. | ||
| Absinthe (Absinthe)
New member Username: Absinthe Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2009 |
Was the arrest appropriate? If no, is this why he was fired? If yes, was he fired due to the way he handled the arrest? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 796 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was the arrest appropriate? No. If no, is this why he was fired? Yes. If yes, was he fired due to the way he handled the arrest? Yes. | ||
| Absinthe (Absinthe)
New member Username: Absinthe Post Number: 27 Registered: 3-2009 |
Was the arrestee Jewish? Did the policeman think/realise he was Jewish? Would the arrest have happened if the sign was in English? What if the sign wasn't present? Is the religion of the policeman relevant? If yes, was he Protestant or Catholic? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 799 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was the arrestee Jewish? Yes. Did the policeman think/realise he was Jewish? No. Would the arrest have happened if the sign was in English? No. What if the sign wasn't present? Again, no. Is the religion of the policeman relevant? Unknown, but possibly. If yes, was he Protestant or Catholic? Probably Protestant. | ||
| Absinthe (Absinthe)
New member Username: Absinthe Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2009 |
Did the sign trigger the events that led to the arrest, or was it a final straw? Was the sign a large one (say, placed over a doorway) or a small one (as those printed on a carton of cigarettes)? If small, was it in the possession of the Jewish man? Did the policeman think it was stolen? Was this event somehow related to the Troubles? (I know that strictly speaking, the Troubles were 1960s-1990s, but the cause of it goes back a long way and a significant part of that happened in the early 20th century.) | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 802 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did the sign trigger the events that led to the arrest This., or was it a final straw? Was the sign a large one (say, placed over a doorway) This. or a small one (as those printed on a carton of cigarettes)? If small, was it in the possession of the Jewish man? Did the policeman think it was stolen? No. Was this event somehow related to the Troubles? Yes. (I know that strictly speaking, the Troubles were 1960s-1990s, but the cause of it goes back a long way and a significant part of that happened in the early 20th century.) | ||
| Absinthe (Absinthe)
New member Username: Absinthe Post Number: 32 Registered: 3-2009 |
Did the policeman suspect the man of being a member of the IRA or some other nationalist rebel group? Did he fail to recognise the sign as Hebrew and thought it was a secret code, prompting him to arrest anyone who claimed to understand it? | ||
| Absinthe (Absinthe)
New member Username: Absinthe Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2009 |
Oh -- did the Hebrew on the sign happen to resemble an English word/phrase? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 806 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did the policeman suspect the man of being a member of the IRA or some other nationalist rebel group? Possibly, but not necessarily. Did he fail to recognise the sign as Hebrew Correct. and thought it was a secret code, prompting him to arrest anyone who claimed to understand it? No, but otrt. | ||
| Absinthe (Absinthe)
New member Username: Absinthe Post Number: 39 Registered: 3-2009 |
Could you respond to my other question? Sorry, I think I posted it while you were in the middle of typing up your repsonse. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 811 Registered: 5-2003 |
Oh -- did the Hebrew on the sign happen to resemble an English word/phrase? Oops. No, it didn't. | ||
| Absinthe (Absinthe)
New member Username: Absinthe Post Number: 43 Registered: 3-2009 |
Hmm. Was the sign literally over a door, or was it on a wall or stuck in the ground? What I'm really asking is, was it marking a building/room as being such-and-such? Was the Jewish man entering or exiting the building/room? Was he carrying anything with him? Was there anyone else around? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 813 Registered: 5-2003 |
Hmm. Was the sign literally over a door, or was it on a wall or stuck in the ground? Irrelevant. What I'm really asking is, was it marking a building/room as being such-and-such? Yes. Was the Jewish man entering or exiting the building/room? No. Was he carrying anything with him? No. Was there anyone else around? Irrelevant. | ||
| Absinthe (Absinthe)
New member Username: Absinthe Post Number: 65 Registered: 3-2009 |
In an earlier question you say the Jewish man was [closest to being] the policeman's coworker. Was he another policeman? Higher-ranking or lower-ranking? Did he work for the government? Was he a guard? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 817 Registered: 5-2003 |
In an earlier question you say the Jewish man was [closest to being] the policeman's coworker. Actually, I didn't say that -- I said the person he offended was a coworker. The arrestee was offended as well, but the offense to the coworker is more relevant. Was he another policeman? No. Higher-ranking or lower-ranking? Higher-ranking than the policeman who committed the offense. Did he work for the government? Yes. Was he a guard? No. | ||
| Absinthe (Absinthe)
New member Username: Absinthe Post Number: 67 Registered: 3-2009 |
Aha! Whoops. So there are three people involved: the policeman, the arrestee, and the coworker; the latter two being Jewish. Are these all the relevant players? Is the coworker the one responsible for the policeman losing his job? Directly or indirectly? Is it relevant which government the coworker worked for? Is the arrestee's job relevant? If yes, did he work for the opposite government? Was the building containing the sign: a school? A government building? A shop? Some other business? Did the arrestee work there, and is that relevant? Was the arrestee present when the policeman first saw the sign? Would the policeman have still misunderstood the sign if the arrestee was/wasn't there? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 818 Registered: 5-2003 |
Aha! Whoops. So there are three people involved: the policeman, the arrestee, and the coworker; the latter two being Jewish. Correct. Are these all the relevant players? Yes. Is the coworker the one responsible for the policeman losing his job? Yes. Directly or indirectly? Not sure, but probably indirect. He had influence. Is it relevant which government the coworker worked for? Yes. Is the arrestee's job relevant? No, assume a shopkeeper. If yes, did he work for the opposite government? There wasn't one. Was the building containing the sign: a school? A government building? A shop? This. Some other business? Did the arrestee work there, and is that relevant? Yes to both. Was the arrestee present when the policeman first saw the sign? Yes. Would the policeman have still misunderstood the sign if the arrestee was/wasn't there? Yes. | ||
| Absinthe (Absinthe)
New member Username: Absinthe Post Number: 85 Registered: 3-2009 |
There wasn't an opposite government... uh, hmm. So this occoured before Ireland became an independant state? Was the coworker a member of the British government? Irish, if it existed at the time? Some other country -- Israel? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 824 Registered: 5-2003 |
There wasn't an opposite government... uh, hmm. So this occoured before Ireland became an independant state? Assume yes, and this is relevant. Was the coworker a member of the British government? Well, appointed by. Irish, if it existed at the time? Some other country -- Israel? No to the others. | ||
| Bolapara (Bolapara)
New member Username: Bolapara Post Number: 439 Registered: 12-2008 |
Does the actual wording on the sign matter? Does any manner of Jewish dress matter? - prayer shawl, head covering, other? Is the time of year relevant? Day of the week? Jewish holiday? Sabbath? Was the door in question the exit to the shop? or the main entrance? Was the man carrying something out of the shop? Did the police man mistake the man for a house robber, thinking he was carrying away a family's loot, instead of business items and money? | ||
| Bolapara (Bolapara)
New member Username: Bolapara Post Number: 442 Registered: 12-2008 |
Did the policeman think the shop was a synagogue? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 838 Registered: 5-2003 |
Does the actual wording on the sign matter? No. Does any manner of Jewish dress matter? - prayer shawl, head covering, other? No. Is the time of year relevant? Day of the week? Jewish holiday? Sabbath? No to all. Was the door in question the exit to the shop? or the main entrance? Assume this. Was the man carrying something out of the shop? No. Did the police man mistake the man for a house robber, thinking he was carrying away a family's loot, instead of business items and money? No. Did the policeman think the shop was a synagogue? No. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 876 Registered: 5-2003 |
Hint: It's relevant that this set in Ireland and related to the Troubles. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 933 Registered: 5-2003 |
Recap: Sometime before or around the period of the Irish Civil War, a policeman in Ireland goes into a shop, whose signs have Hebrew lettering, and arrests its Jewish owner. He is later fired. The fact that he could not read Hebrew is germane to the solution. Why did he make the arrest, and why was he fired? Hint: There was a relevant regulation on Ireland's lawbooks at the time. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did the policeman think the sign was in Gaelic? Some other language? Was there a law against the use of this language? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 946 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did the policeman think the sign was in Gaelic? Yes. Some other language? Was there a law against the use of this language? Yes! | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2009 |
A law against the public use of Gaelic in general? Against shop signs or advertising in Gaelic? Is there anything special about the law we still have to find out? Some Hebrew letters look similar to Latin letters? The sign happend to consist mainly of such letters? The policeman, who could read neither Hebrew nor Gaelic saw just an incomprehensible sequence of letters, assumed it to be Gaelic and arrested the shopkeeper without checking his assumption. The shopkeeper later complained about his treatment to some high officer who, as a Jew, didn't like at all the idea of policemen arresting people for writing Hebrew. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 947 Registered: 5-2003 |
A law against the public use of Gaelic in general? This. Against shop signs or advertising in Gaelic? Is there anything special about the law we still have to find out? No. Some Hebrew letters look similar to Latin letters? The sign happend to consist mainly of such letters? The policeman, who could read neither Hebrew nor Gaelic saw just an incomprehensible sequence of letters, assumed it to be Gaelic and arrested the shopkeeper without checking his assumption. Correct. The shopkeeper later complained about his treatment to some high officer who, as a Jew, didn't like at all the idea of policemen arresting people for writing Hebrew. Not quite, but close enough. The second Jew was the judge charged with overseeing the incident. **************************** Spoiler ***************************** This Irish song goes to 'Sweet Betsy of Pike." Robert Briscoe was a prominent Irish Jew of the period who was Lord Mayor of Dublin. The Policeman walked out, oh so proud on his beat, When a vision came to him of stripes on his sleeve "Promotion," he whispered, "I'll try for today; So come with me, Mister, Ri-toorali-ay." "Come tell me your name," says the limb of the law, To the little fat man selling wares on the straw. "What's that sir, me name sir? Why, 'tis there on display, And it's Moses Ri-toorali-oorali-ay." Now the trial came on and it lasted a week. One Judge said 'twas German; another 'twas Greek. Prove you're Irish," said the policeman, "and beyond it say nay; And we'll sit on it, Moses Ri-Tooral-i-ay." Now, the prisoner stepped up there as stiff as a crutch. "Are you Irish or English or German or Dutch?" "I'm a Jew sir; I'm a Jew sir, that came over to stay, And my name it is Moses Ri-Tooral-i-ay." "We're two of a kind," said the judge to the Jew; You're a cousin of Briscoe and I am one too! This numbskull has blundered and for it will pay." "Wisha that's right," says Moses Ri-Tooral-i-ay. There's a garbage collector who works down our street, He once was a policeman, the pride of his beat. And he moans all the night and he groans all the day, Singing, Moses Ri-toorali-oorali-ay. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2009 |
This was a great one! I just bought a recording of the song and probably will tell the story to some friends (not sure whether in the form of a lateral puzzle) - thank you! |
