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Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 416
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He refused to let her open the basement door. One day she did, and saw something which shocked her, although most people see it every day. What was it?

IMPORTANT: Despite its appearance, this is a RULEBREAKER. I'm trying something new here, to see if it works. The puzzle statement is just there so that you can ask yes-or-no questions about it, like you would a normal puzzle. But, I will NOT be answering based on the actual answer to the puzzle. I will be answering based on a rule which you have to discover, like in any rulebreaker.

This is a classic puzzle with an answer, but you can of course play even if you know it. You can even ask questions about a totally different puzzle if you like. When someone finds out the rule, I'll Sp0i1 the actual puzzle too.

There might be a few CAs, but I don't anticipate many.
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK. Should be interesting...

All "she"'s, etc., the same? All "he"'s, etc., the same?

Was "it" the sun? The sky? The moon? The earth? The mirror? A house? The house?

Was he her father? Was he her uncle? Was he her nephew?
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And, just to check whether the time has anything to do with the rule...feel free not to answer twice if it isn't.

All "she"'s, etc., the same? All "he"'s, etc., the same?

Was "it" the sun? The sky? The moon? The earth? The mirror? A house? The house?

Was he her father? Was he her uncle? Was he her nephew?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmmm...looks quite interesting so I'll jump in...

Did he open the door?
Did she eat before going to bed?
Was it raining outside?
Is there a song title that would remind someone about this situation?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 524
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alice?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 420
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Logician (Logician)

OK. Should be interesting... Hope so. Oh, and anything that I bold AND italicize does not follow the rule.

All "she"'s, etc., the same? All "he"'s, etc., the same? Well, yes, of course.

Was "it" the sun? The sky? The moon? The earth? The mirror? A house? The house? What do you mean, "it"?

Was he her father? Was he her uncle? Was he her nephew? No to all.

Logician (Logician)

And, just to check whether the time has anything to do with the rule...feel free not to answer twice if it isn't. All answers would be the same. =)

Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)

Hmmmm...looks quite interesting so I'll jump in... Thanks.

Did he open the door? No, no door-opening involved.
Did she eat before going to bed? Who?
Was it raining outside? Irr.
Is there a song title that would remind someone about this situation? Probably a few! Good question!

Alhucema (Alhucema)

Alice? Who's that?

But as a side note, very clever idea, Alhucema.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 526
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alice? You with us?
Can I ask you a question?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 421
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alhucema (Alhucema)

Alice? Again, who's Alice? You with us? Um, sure.
Can I ask you a question? Please do.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 530
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Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What did you see behind the basement door?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 12:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And Alice? I hope you do not take drugs, do you?

Do you happen to see white rabbits?

Can I call you when you're ten feet tall?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 131
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Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

to see if it matters who asks...

And Alice? I hope you do not take drugs, do you?

Do you happen to see white rabbits?

Can I call you when you're ten feet tall?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 132
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Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Go ask Alice.
Go ask Alice?
Go ask Pete?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 424
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Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alhucema (Alhucema)

What did you see behind the basement door? That's not a yes or no question. =)

Alhucema (Alhucema)

And Alice? I'm not Alice. I hope you do not take drugs, do you? Is that a puzzle question?

Do you happen to see white rabbits? No white rabbits involved.

Can I call you when you're ten feet tall? ...huh?

Noel (Noel)

And Alice? Still not Alice. I hope you do not take drugs, do you? Um, irr?

Do you happen to see white rabbits? No...

Can I call you when you're ten feet tall? No growth, shrinkage or rabbits relevant to the puzzle.

Noel (Noel)

Go ask Alice. Everyone keeps telling me to go ask Alice. Who's Alice? Is she on the site?
Go ask Alice? No!
Go ask Pete? Who is Pete??

While I can answer these type of questions all day, I really do think it'll be more helpful to ask as if you were trying to solve the puzzle statement. That's just how this rulebreaker works.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 135
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Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we call her Sarah?
Was Sarah physically unable to open the door?
Can we call him Hugh?
Did Hugh prevent Sarah from opening the door for her safety?
Did Hugh prevent Sarah from opening the door for his safety?
Did she sing a song while opening the door?
Did Sarah sing a song?
Sarah sung a song.
Is there a song about opening a door?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 426
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Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Can we call her Sarah? Sure.
Was Sarah physically unable to open the door? No door involved.
Can we call him Hugh? There's more than one other character, but we can call them collectively Hugh...
Did Hugh prevent Sarah from opening the door for her safety?
Did Hugh prevent Sarah from opening the door for his safety?
Did she sing a song while opening the door? No door-opening occurred.
Did Sarah sing a song? No, she only spoke.
Sarah sung a song. Nope.
Is there a song about opening a door? Irr.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 144
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Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hmm...any time there was a question about the "door," he said there was no door. This occurred both when I asked it and when Ixoye asked it. Also, he said there was more than one other character, when there is clearly a "he" in this scenario. Is it possible that he's answering questions as if they were about a different classic puzzle? And we have to figure out which puzzle that is?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 145
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Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 2:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Sarah shocked? If so, was it by what she saw? What she felt? By an electric eel? By what she said when she spoke?

Would I see it every day?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good thoughts, Noel.

Noel (Noel)

Was Sarah shocked? Probably, by the end of the puzzle. If so, was it by what she saw? No. What she felt? No. By an electric eel? Ha, no. By what she said when she spoke? No, but closer.

Would I see it every day? By it, you mean "they"? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are "they" the group that is collectively known as Hugh? =) Or are "they" objects?
How many people are "they"?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I meant, how many people are collectively known as Hugh?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 431
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Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Are "they" the group that is collectively known as Hugh? =) No, two groups are involved. Good q. Or are "they" objects? No.
How many people are "they"? "They" are not people. =)

Noel (Noel)

I meant, how many people are collectively known as Hugh? Irr, could be only a few.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 156
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Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are "they" animals? locations?

The thing that shocked her by the end of the puzzle; was it: the reaction of someone to what she said? The reaction of something to what she said? The thing she was talking about? The person she was talking about? Something she did while she was speaking?

Does anything or anyone die during the process of this puzzle? If so, Sarah? One of the Hughs? One of "they"? Is anything injured? If so [same groups as previous]?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 9:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there is no Alice in this puzzle? No door?

There is Sarah who spoke, and was possibly shocked at the end of the puzzle.

There are two groups involved. One contains several other characters, whom we can call "Hugh" collectively. The other group consists of non-humans.

Is this correct so far?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Are "they" animals? Yesish. locations? No.

The thing that shocked her by the end of the puzzle; was it: the reaction of someone to what she said? Yes. The reaction of something to what she said? No. The thing she was talking about? Yope. The person she was talking about? No. Something she did while she was speaking? No.

Does anything or anyone die during the process of this puzzle? No. If so, Sarah? One of the Hughs? One of "they"? No, but maybe explore.Is anything injured? No. If so [same groups as previous]?

Alhucema (Alhucema)

So there is no Alice in this puzzle? Exactly. No door? Right.

There is Sarah who spoke, and was possibly shocked at the end of the puzzle. Nope.

There are two groups involved. One contains several other characters, whom we can call "Hugh" collectively. The other group consists of non-humans. No, none of these people are involved.

Is this correct so far? Nope.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does anyone have a near death experience during the process of this puzzle? Is the puzzle specifically about NOT dying?

"they" are yesishly animals. Are they imaginary creatures? Stuffed toy animals? Animals in a painting or picture? Is the reason that death might be worth exploring for them becuase they weren't actually alive?

Uh-oh Alhucema...it looks like he's answering questions for you about a different situation than he's answering them about for for me!

Question for Gourami: given that this puzzle might be about classic puzzles, would it be considered cheating to go look at the classic puzzles page?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Does anyone have a near death experience during the process of this puzzle? No, but deaths are involved-ish. Is the puzzle specifically about NOT dying? In a way, but don't let me get you off track.

"they" are yesishly animals. Are they imaginary creatures? This. Stuffed toy animals? Animals in a painting or picture? Is the reason that death might be worth exploring for them becuase they weren't actually alive? Yes.

Uh-oh Alhucema...it looks like he's answering questions for you about a different situation than he's answering them about for for me! =)

Question for Gourami: given that this puzzle might be about classic puzzles, would it be considered cheating to go look at the classic puzzles page? Any research is more than welcome.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

emailed you a guess. I don't think this one is ready to be spoiled yet.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For everyone else participating: I've figured out part of it, but not all of it. Keep asking questions! At this point, answers to my questions won't be all that helpful for me but they might help you, so I'll keep asking questions one in a while as if I hadn't figured anything out yet. However, it'll definitely take someone else asking questions for this to be solved all the way.

Are they imaginary creatures in the sense of: fictional beings from mythology? Or a child's imaginary friend? Or a fictional character that is based on a real type of animal (e.g. Aslan is a fictional lion. Lions are real, but Aslan isn't.)?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Thanks, Noel. I'll admit a bit of selfishness; I do want this to go on a bit longer, in case anyone else is interested. But you definitely solved first, nice work.

Are they imaginary creatures in the sense of: fictional beings from mythology? This. Or a child's imaginary friend? Or a fictional character that is based on a real type of animal (e.g. Aslan is a fictional lion. Lions are real, but Aslan isn't.)? No, but they are similar to a real animal.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is everyone H A M/F? Is she blind? Did she open the door intentionally? Did he know? Albatrosses relevant? Is any relevant character a midget? Is there a power outage during the course of the story? Does anyone die? If so, is it murder? suicide? accident? Is anyone cheating on anyone else?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)

Is everyone H A M/F? One HAM, one HAF. Is she blind? Irr. Did she open the door intentionally? What door? Did he know? Not immediately. Albatrosses relevant? No. =)Is any relevant character a midget? Irr. Is there a power outage during the course of the story? No. Does anyone die? No. If so, is it murder? suicide? accident? Is anyone cheating on anyone else? Yesish, depending on your definition of cheating.
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 11:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is everyone H A M/F? Was s/he playing a game?

Is there any foul play involved? Was it murder? An accident? Suicide?\
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Logician (Logician)

Is everyone H A M/F? One HAM, one HAF. Was s/he playing a game? No.

Is there any foul play involved? I wouldn't call it that. Was it murder? No. An accident? This... Suicide? Leading to this.
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Which person died: the man? the woman?

Did s/he die because of something s/he heard? saw? read?
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would s/he have survived if s/he had heard? seen? read? something other than what s/he actually did?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Am I allowed to make a guess about the principle you are using, or would it s*poil the fun?

(I am asking because this is my first rulebreaker, and I prefer to make a stupid question to making a stupid mistake ;-))
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 12:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alhucema,
Gourami can answer your question, of course, since it's Gourami's puzzle. But I'll tell you my reason for not guessing right away, and that is because I felt like I kind of stumbled onto the answer almost by accident, and it seemed like there was a lot more puzzle solving left that should naturally happen before I should have reached the conclusion I did (which isn't the entire answer anyway). But from what I've seen in rulebreakers before, then yes, it's absolutely ok to make a guess, and also to discuss your ideas with others. Just put it in Italics so Gourami knows you're not expecting her to answer it according to the rule.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 4:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Logician (Logician)

Which person died: the man? This. the woman?

Did s/he die because of something s/he heard? saw? read? This.

Would s/he have survived if s/he had heard? seen? read? This. something other than what s/he actually did? Yes! Good questions.

Alhucema (Alhucema)

Am I allowed to make a guess about the principle you are using, or would it s*poil the fun? I totally agree with Noel. This one has lasted long enough, I think; just put guesses in italics. =)
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK then. It appears you're answering to my Jonathan Creek puzzle; and to Noel, you were answering to his unicorn scrund puzzle.

So are you answering questions according to the last solved puzzle that the questioner posted? The most recent puzzle in the Recently Solved / Solved sections? Or even just any solved puzzle that took your fancy at the time the first question was asked?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*****************SPOILER

Logician got it exactly, Noel was the first to see the pattern, and thanks to everyone for working on this experimental puzzle! I'll make it a little harder next time.

Rulebreaker solution: I answered each user's questions as if they were asking them about their own most recently solved puzzle (excluding any rulebreakers or lateral adventures they might have had).

And, in case you were wondering, solution to the puzzle statement: She was a young girl whose father had kept her in the basement all her life. One day she opened the door, and for the first time saw the outside world.
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good one! I think that's probably the first time on this forum I've had a proper "Aha!" moment of realisation... certainly a good idea for a puzzle, would be interesting to see it developed further.

As for this puzzle, I should probably thank my lucky stars that my last puzzle had a relatively unusual "accident leads to suicide" scenario, else I would've been bumbling around the Classic Puzzles Section for a long time to come :-)
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Same situation with me. I still don't know what led me to ask about imaginary creatures, but if I hadn't, I'd still be pulling my hair out on this one.

Gourami, great idea for a puzzle. I really enjoyed it.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 458
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Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 1:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe there's a psychological thing to that. Maybe we ask questions related to our own puzzles on other people's puzzles.

Hm...

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