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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4307
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Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Georgette writes very traditional poetry, but some of her friends & acquaintances think her poetry is very avant-garde. How come??
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1048
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they not know much about poetry? Does she write a specific type of poetry, and is the type relevant? Do some of her other friends/acquaintances consider her poetry traditional? Does she?

Does Georgette write traditional poetry about avant-garde subjects? Perhaps she writes science-fiction?

Is poetry the only relevant art form?

Which of the following, if any, are relevant?

- location
- time period
- ethnicity
- age
- gender
- level of education
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4313
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Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1048
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Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 1:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Do they not know much about poetry? no Does she write a specific type of poetry, and is the type relevant?All that is relevant is that it's not avant-garde Do some of her other friends/acquaintances consider her poetry traditional? yes Does she? yes

Does Georgette write traditional poetry about avant-garde subjects? no Perhaps she writes science-fiction? no

Is poetry the only relevant art form? This could also happen with some others, I think

Which of the following, if any, are relevant?

- locationyope
- time period yes
- ethnicity no
- age no
- gender no
- level of education no
Anneja (Anneja)
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Post Number: 49
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the poetry classical now but when it was written it was considered avant-grade?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4314
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Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anneja (Anneja)
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Post Number: 49
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Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 7:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is the poetry classical now but when it was written it was considered avant-grade?no
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1065
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Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Location = yope because it could occur in any of a number of places (like, say, any Western country or anywhere in Africa)?

Time period -- LTPF list of centuries.

So, her poetry is traditional. Some of her friends recognize this, but others think it's avant-garde because they are unfamiliar with poetry? Could they be educated to learn otherwise?

Was the poetry published? If so, is the form relevant? The publication?

Is the subject of the poem relevant? The length? Anyone besides Georgette and her friends/acquaintances relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4317
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Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1065
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Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 12:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Location = yope because it could occur in any of a number of places (like, say, any Western country or anywhere in Africa)?that's not the reason for the yope. In fact it could occur in any western country & many African countries, too, maybe all.

Time period -- LTPF list of centuries. after about 1995

So, her poetry is traditional. Some of her friends recognize this, but others think it's avant-garde because they are unfamiliar with poetry? no Could they be educated to learn otherwise? yes

Was the poetry published? yes If so, is the form relevant? yes The publication? yes

Is the subject of the poem relevant? no The length? no Anyone besides Georgette and her friends/acquaintances relevant? yes
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1071
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it published in an avant-garde publication? Or one known for publishing avant-garde material?

Was it published online? In print? In audio format? Audio-visual?

The other relevant person(s): 1? 2? More? Editors? Relatives? Readers? Publishers?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4319
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Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1071
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Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 9:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was it published in an avant-garde publication? noOr one known for publishing avant-garde material? no

Was it published online? yes In print? yes In audio format? no Audio-visual? no

The other relevant person(s): 1? 2? More? hard to say how manyEditors? possiblyRelatives? no Readers? probably just her friends & acquaintances among readers Publishers?possibly
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 54
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Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did those who think her poetry was avant-garde actually read the poetry?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 873
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do some people think the poetry avant garde because of where it is published? because of a nom de plume used? because of the other things published alongside it? because of pictures used to illustrate it? because of the font used? because of the punctuation used?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4322
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Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 54
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Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 8:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did those who think her poetry was avant-garde actually read the poetry? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 873
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Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 9:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
do some people think the poetry avant garde because of where it is published? noish because of a nom de plume used? no--she used her real name because of the other things published alongside it? no because of pictures used to illustrate it? nobecause of the font used?yope or noish because of the punctuation used yope
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 72
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Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were those people unable to read the poetry? Or did they just not decide to read it?

Is some special charset used to represent the poetry? Is the language the poetry is written in relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4328
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Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 72
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Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 9:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Were those people unable to read the poetry? yope Or did they just not decide to read it? no

Is some special charset used to represent the poetry? What is a charset?Is the language the poetry is written in relevant? yope
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 76
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Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the poetry written in Braille? Performed or displayed in some kind of sign language? Does it contain special letters from a foreign language (e.g. umlauts, letters with haceks, Chinese characters)? Is the poetry in Old English, Middle English or their equivalents in another language?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4330
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 76
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Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 10:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the poetry written in Braille? no Performed or displayed in some kind of sign language? no Does it contain special letters from a foreign language (e.g. umlauts, letters with haceks, Chinese characters)? no Is the poetry in Old English, Middle English or their equivalents in another language? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 882
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are capital letters relevant? are the poems published with no capital letters?

are the poems presented in an unusual shape? unusual line length?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4338
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 882
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 8:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
are capital letters relevant? no are the poems published with no capital letters? no

are the poems presented in an unusual shape? yope unusual line length? yope
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 883
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are the poems squashed into a particular sized place in the publication? or somehow adapted to fit into the publication? so that they actually look unusual? very large? very small?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4343
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 883
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 9:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
are the poems squashed into a particular sized place in the publication? no or somehow adapted to fit into the publication? noso that they actually look unusual? They do look unusual, but not because they're adaptedvery large? no very small? no
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it concrete or visual poetry? An acrostic? Anagrams involved? A puzzle of some sort?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4347
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 10:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was it concrete or visual poetry? no An acrostic? no Anagrams involved no A puzzle of some sort? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 886
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Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

when you say 'traditional' do you mean 'conventional' - as in, the way most people would do it? or do you mean it's according to some particular tradition? perhaps a very old tradition? or the tradition od a specific culture?

are the poems written to produce a particular shape visually when looked at as a whole? a shape that relates to their content?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 9:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
when you say 'traditional' do you mean 'conventional' - as in, the way most people would do it? or do you mean it's according to some particular tradition? perhaps a very old tradition? or the tradition od a specific culture? the former

are the poems written to produce a particular shape visually when looked at as a whole? no a shape that relates to their content? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4367
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Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: A 'YES' ANSWER ABOVE IS CRUCIAL TO THE SOLUTION.
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it not the poetry itself that is considered innovative? But instead the method of presentation? Was she one of the first to publish her poetry online? Was she one of the first to publish in a certain format/presentation style?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 10:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it not the poetry itself that is considered innovative? No, the poetry itself is considered innovative.But instead the method of presentation? no Was she one of the first to publish her poetry online? irrelWas she one of the first to publish in a certain format/presentation style? no
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 104
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Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it important that the poetry is published online?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4378
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Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

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Post Number: 104
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Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 11:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it important that the poetry is published online? YES!!!!!!!!!! GOOOOOD QUESTION!!!!
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a problem with how certain browswers display the poems? A problem concerning linebreaks? colours? text size? Wrong rendering of ordinary text? Graphics? Frames relevant? JavaScript? Flash?

Or is the problem that some of Georgettes friends are inexperienced in using the internet? Have they no internet access at all? A very slow connection? Do they make mistakes in using a program? Do they simply think that something which is published online must be avant-garde?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 107
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Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 7:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is there a problem with how certain browswers display the poems? A problem concerning linebreaks? colours? text size? Wrong rendering of ordinary text? Graphics? Frames relevant? JavaScript? Flash? See below

Or is the problem that some of Georgettes friends are inexperienced in using the internet? noHave they no internet access at all? no A very slow connection? irrelDo they make mistakes in using a program? noDo they simply think that something which is published online must be avant-garde? no

It's time for me to declare a
******** SPOILER *********************
especially because I'm not sophisticated enough about the Internet to answer some of these questions. Neither is Georgette, no big surprise, since I'm Georgette. One of the places that publishes my poems is the same newspaper that runs my monthly column. They publish the poems at the bottom of the editorial page, like editorials, & there are print & online versions. So I figured that the easiest way to e-mail the poems to my out-of state friends was just to copy what was in the online version & paste it into the body of an e-mail. To my surprise, many (but not all) recipients said they didn't understand the poems & asked if they were experimental, etc. Eventually, I found out that my friends were getting an unintelligible collection of lines & letters, because I was committing a cardinal Internet sin. NEVER COPY SOMETHING FROM A WEB PAGE & PASTE IT INTO THE BODY OF AN E-MAIL--at least not if you have my sort of computer (a Mac), which isn't set up for that. What I should I have done was copied the link or turned the poem itself into a Word attachment. The funniest part of this was that people seem to take it for granted that published poetry could be gibberish. No one I sent the poems to suggested that there might be a computer glitch! Thanks for sticking with it, everyone, & for solving it, Markobr, & please attack my new puzzle you-know-where.

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