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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1206
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Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A true story from World War II:

After dropping their bombs on Italians in North Africa, British bombers continued to fly over their target for several hours. They did this even though they were out of bombs and could be shot down by the enemy. Why?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 776
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Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it to keep the enemy pinned down?
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Reconnaissance?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 58
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Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the Italians know the British were out of bombs?

Was there something preventing the British from landing?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1208
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Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 2:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it to keep the enemy pinned down?
Reconnaissance?
Did the Italians know the British were out of bombs?
Was there something preventing the British from landing?

No to all.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1209
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Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 2:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it to keep the enemy pinned down?
Reconnaissance?
Did the Italians know the British were out of bombs?
Was there something preventing the British from landing?

No to all.
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Username: Martinfg

Post Number: 779
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Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the bombers have left if they wanted to?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 61
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Italians did not know that the British were out of bombs. Did the British know that the Italians did not know the British were out of bombs? Were the British using this knowledge to their advantage?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with estimating the amount of damage their bombs had caused? Or simply confirming that targets had been hit?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1210
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Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the bombers have left if they wanted to? Yes.

The Italians did not know that the British were out of bombs. Did the British know that the Italians did not know the British were out of bombs? Were the British using this knowledge to their advantage?

Anything to do with estimating the amount of damage their bombs had caused? Or simply confirming that targets had been hit? No to the rest.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 65
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Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they continuing to fly over their target so that they wouldn't have to go fight at another location?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1212
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Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they continuing to fly over their target so that they wouldn't have to go fight at another location? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 75
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Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the reason they continued to fly over their target to be able to do something? Or to avoid doing something?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1214
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Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the reason they continued to fly over their target to be able to do something? This. Or to avoid doing something?
Natanz (Natanz)
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Username: Natanz

Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2009
Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you always have to be in an airplane to do what they were doing?

Or another aircraft?

Has what they were doing ever been done outside of wartime?
Often been done?

Did the entire crew want to do what they were doing?

Did the entire crew participate in "the action"?

Were they doing something fun?

Were they waiting for someone?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1215
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Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you always have to be in an airplane to do what they were doing? Not necessarily, but it helps.

Or another aircraft? Some other aircraft would work, but not all.

Has what they were doing ever been done outside of wartime? I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Often been done? I doubt it.

Did the entire crew want to do what they were doing? b{Irrelevant.}

Did the entire crew participate in "the action"? Not everyone was needed.

Were they doing something fun? No.

Were they waiting for someone? Yes.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1216
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Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you always have to be in an airplane to do what they were doing? Not necessarily, but it helps.

Or another aircraft? Some other aircraft would work, but not all.

Has what they were doing ever been done outside of wartime? I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Often been done? I doubt it.

Did the entire crew want to do what they were doing? Irrelevant.

Did the entire crew participate in "the action"? Not everyone was needed.

Were they doing something fun? No.

Were they waiting for someone? Yes.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 448
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Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you have to be airborne to do what they were doing?

Were they waiting for other planes/aircraft?

Were they waiting for an ally/enemy?

Did they need to burn the fuel before landing?
Natanz (Natanz)
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Username: Natanz

Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2009
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it more dangerous to leave than to stay?

Was the reason they stayed because of something that was going on inside the plane?

Was the reason they stayed because of something that was going on outside of the plane?

Would the "average man" have made the decision to stay under the same circumstances?

Were they firing their guns at something?

Were they dropping something else?
Propaganda?

Did all of their equipment work?

Was their plane damaged?
Natanz (Natanz)
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Username: Natanz

Post Number: 8
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Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they waiting for new orders?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 1217
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Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you have to be airborne to do what they were doing? Yes.

Were they waiting for other planes/aircraft? No.

Were they waiting for an ally/enemy? Yes.

Did they need to burn the fuel before landing? No.

Was it more dangerous to leave than to stay? Yope.

Was the reason they stayed because of something that was going on inside the plane? No.

Was the reason they stayed because of something that was going on outside of the plane? Yes.

Would the "average man" have made the decision to stay under the same circumstances? Yes.

Were they firing their guns at something? No.

Were they dropping something else? No.
Propaganda? No.

Did all of their equipment work? Yes.

Was their plane damaged? No.

Were they waiting for new orders? No.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 449
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they waiting for an ally? An enemy?

Whoever they were waiting for was to approach by air? By land? By the sea?

The activity which was going on outside of the plane: Was it on the ground? In the air? On the sea?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 1218
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Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they waiting for an ally? This. An enemy?

Whoever they were waiting for was to approach by air? By land? This. By the sea?

The activity which was going on outside of the plane: Was it on the ground? This. In the air? On the sea?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 450
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they waiting for ally troops to arrive? If so, to protect them?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1219
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they waiting for ally troops to arrive? Yes. If so, to protect them? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 84
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they waiting for their allies to bring them new supplies?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 454
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they waiting to provide them (ie the allies) with some information?

Was it daylight? Relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1220
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 12:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they waiting for their allies to bring them new supplies? No.

Were they waiting to provide them (ie the allies) with some information? No.

Was it daylight? No. Relevant? Yes.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 456
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 1:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they provide light to the ally troops?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1221
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 1:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they provide light to the ally troops? No.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 458
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 1:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was whatever they intended rather psychological than physical?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1223
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was whatever they intended rather psychological than physical? Yes.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 460
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 1:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they trying to impress the enemy?

If so, by showing off they were many?

Was there some trick involved?

Religion relevant? Superstitions?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1224
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 4:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they trying to impress the enemy? No.

If so, by showing off they were many? No.

Was there some trick involved? You could say that, yes.

Religion relevant? Superstitions? No to both.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 461
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let us see... did they want the enemy to assume something?

When hovering above the area... were they just flying, or was there another activity involved?

Light relevant? Sound relevant?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Username: Martinfg

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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the sound of the aircraft relevant? or the lights?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1225
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let us see... did they want the enemy to assume something? Yes.

When hovering above the area... were they just flying, or was there another activity involved? No.

Light relevant? Yes. Sound relevant? Yes.

Is the sound of the aircraft relevant? Yes. or the lights? No.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 462
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the sound meant to deter the enemy? To indicate the position of the aircraft?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 784
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the sound of the aircraft used to cover the noise the advancing troops were making?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1226
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the sound meant to deter the enemy? To indicate the position of the aircraft? No to both.

was the sound of the aircraft used to cover the noise the advancing troops were making? Correct.

**************

Spoiler

**************

This happened just before a surprise attack at dawn. To keep the Italians from hearing the British tanks that were sneaking up on them in the dark, aircraft were used to drown out the sound of the tank engines.
Natanz (Natanz)
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Username: Natanz

Post Number: 11
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice one
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 464
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for this puzzle!

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