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Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 120
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The accident saved many accident victims.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1252
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The accident = the same accident the victims were victims of ? (What a sentence)

Were the victims in danger of dying?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 121
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The accident = the same accident the victims were victims of ? (What a sentence) No. Great sentence (:

Were the victims in danger of dying? Many of them were.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1254
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Accident 1 (the saving one) of the same nature as Accident 2 (the one which left the victims?)

Were any vehicles involved in A1? A2? Was any of them natural?

Real story? When (LTPF list of centuries) does it take place?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 123
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Accident 1 (the saving one) of the same nature as Accident 2 (the one which left the victims?) No.

Were any vehicles involved in A1? A2? Only A2. Was any of them natural? No.

Real story? Yes. When (LTPF list of centuries) does it take place? 20th century.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1255
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vehicles as cars? Lorries? Airplanes?

Accident 1 - was machinery of some sort involved?

For A1 and A - Was there danger of poisoning? drowning? dying as a result of an impact?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 124
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vehicles as cars? This. Lorries? This as well. Airplanes? No.

Accident 1 - was machinery of some sort involved? No.

For A1 and A You mean A1 and A2? - Was there danger of poisoning? No. drowning? No. dying as a result of an impact? No - though impact is invovled in both
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 2183
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Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was some medical knowledge gained from the victims of A1 used to treat the victims of A2?

Did anyone die in A1? Was A1 a fire? building collapse?

Any particular branch of the emergency services relevant in either accident? is so police? ambulance? Fire? other medical personel?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 125
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was some medical knowledge gained from the victims of A1 used to treat the victims of A2? No.

Did anyone die in A1? Was A1 a fire? building collapse? No to all.

Any particular branch of the emergency services relevant in either accident? No.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1256
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were there any victims of A1?

Did A1 happen before A2? After? Simultaneously?

If there was a difference in time, was it within hours? days? weeks? months? years?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 128
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were there any victims of A1? No.

Did A1 happen before A2? After? Simultaneously? Before.

If there was a difference in time, was it within hours? days? weeks? months? years? Years.
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Post Number: 161
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are these things relevant?
Disease?
Immune Systems?
Car crashes?
An explosion?
A bomb?
Location relevant? City?
Were the victims in hospitals?
Did people die in A1?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 132
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are these things relevant? Some of them are:
Disease? No.
Immune Systems? No.
Car crashes? Yes.
An explosion? No.
A bomb? No.
Location relevant? City? Not really
Were the victims in hospitals? Some went to hospital.
Did people die in A1? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 133
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blooper!

Location relevant?: For A1: yope. For A2: not really.
City? Irrelevant for both.
Fleemco198 (Fleemco198)
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Post Number: 37
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

just for clarification...
an unintended event cause people in the second accident to be alive afterwards?
did A1 take place in outer space? A2?
did A1 happen inside a structure? A2?
Fleemco198 (Fleemco198)
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Post Number: 38
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

how many years was in between the accidents?1? 5? 10? 15? 20?
can this relate to the butterfly effect?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 136
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

just for clarification...
an unintended event cause people in the second accident to be alive afterwards? Yes, but quite indirectly.
did A1 take place in outer space? A2? None of them.
did A1 happen inside a structure? A2? A1 did. A2 usually didn't. Hint: A2 is not one specific accident.

how many years was in between the accidents?1? 5? 10? 15? 20? About 12 years, but see above.
can this relate to the butterfly effect? No.
Fuhad (Fuhad)
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Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the second accident stop the first one from becoming fatal?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1257
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

what is a butterfly effect?

Does somebody learn a lesson from A1 which becomes helpful by the time of A2?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 140
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the second accident stop the first one from becoming fatal? No, it was the other way around.

what is a butterfly effect? When a tiny event (like a butterfly flapping its wings) makes something slightly bigger happen, which again makes something bigger happen and so on until the escalating chain of events leads to something really huge happening.

Does somebody learn a lesson from A1 which becomes helpful by the time of A2? Yope.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1258
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks.

Were ther any similarities at all between A1 an A2?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 142
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Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were ther any similarities at all between A1 an A2? Only a very small one, but it's what's significant for this puzzle.
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 3:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the victims have similar accidents?
Were the victims all victims of automobile accidents?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 143
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 7:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the victims have similar accidents?
Were the victims all victims of automobile accidents? Yes to all.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1260
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 7:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, basically, A2 is a series of unrelated car crashes, right?

And A1 brought some experience/information which was later used for A2's, correct?

If so, was it technical information? Related to machinery? Related to physics? Related to human bodies? Related to the effect of something on something else?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 144
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 8:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, basically, A2 is a series of unrelated car crashes, right? Correct.

And A1 brought some experience/information which was later used for A2's, correct? Yesish.

If so, was it technical information? Yes. Related to machinery? Related to physics? Sort of, but... Related to human bodies? Related to the effect of something on something else? ...this is closest.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1261
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the piece of information learnt relate to the condition of the cars before/after the crash? How to get the victims out of the cars?
Something which is done on the accident scene after the accident? Do I need some special equipment for "it"?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 146
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 8:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the piece of information learnt relate to the condition of the cars before/after the crash? FA about "information", but this is closest. How to get the victims out of the cars?
Something which is done on the accident scene after the accident? No to these.
Do I need some special equipment for "it"? FA.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1262
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 8:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would "experience" be closer?

Does the life-saving thing include a change in something? The car?

A wild shot in the dark: Airbags relevant?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 148
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 8:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would "experience" be closer? No.

Does the life-saving thing include a change in something? The car? Yes!

A wild shot in the dark: Airbags relevant? No, but OTRT.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1263
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 9:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the car's safety was enhanced somehow, right?

Does it involve changes to the car's motion systems (engine, brakes, clutch and so on)? Its body? Undercarriage? Inside (seats etc.) Safety belts?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 151
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 9:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the car's safety was enhanced somehow, right? Yes.

Does it involve changes to the car's motion systems (engine, brakes, clutch and so on)? Its body? Thisish. Undercarriage? Inside (seats etc.) Safety belts?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1265
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything done to any part of the metal frame which is, uh, sitting on the undercarriage?

Car make relevant? Or cars in general? Any specific type of car (such as hatchback, sedan etc.)?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 155
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything done to any part of the metal frame which is, uh, sitting on the undercarriage? No.

Car make relevant? Or cars in general? Any specific type of car (such as hatchback, sedan etc.)? Cars in general.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are side impact bars relevant? Roll bars? Bumpers? Did A1 lead to an invention which saved people in A2? Is the feature standard on all cars now?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1266
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Car locking systems relevant?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 156
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are side impact bars relevant? Roll bars? Bumpers? No to all. Did A1 lead to an invention which saved people in A2? Yes! Is the feature standard on all cars now? Yes.

Car locking systems relevant? No.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1267
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a tangible thing (such as an extra gadget added to the car? If so, is it made (mostly) of metal?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 159
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a tangible thing Yes (such as an extra gadget added to the car? But not this. If so, is it made (mostly) of metal? No, it's not made of metal.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it made of plastic?
Fabric?
Wood?
Glass?

Did they change the material used for a part that was already on cars?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it made of plastic? Yes.
Fabric?
Wood?
Glass? this as well.

Did they change the material used for a part that was already on cars? Yes.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have something to do with windows? Like the window glass which shatters in small pieces rather than the long spiky ones which can do a lot of harm?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 6:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have something to do with windows? Like the window glass which shatters in small pieces rather than the long spiky ones which can do a lot of harm? That's it exactly. Not much left now (:
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOPER!

It's not in fact the type of glass that shatters in small relatively harmless pieces (called tempered glass), but you're very much OTRT!
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What is left, then? The exact type of glass?

Is it some combination of glass with plastic (not sure how they could possibly melt them together)?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have to do with the fact that when a rock hits my windshield, it results in an indentation with cracks that spread slowly, instead of instantly shattering my whole windshield?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What is left, then? The exact type of glass?
What's left is almost any information on the unfairly ignored A1 (:


Is it some combination of glass with plastic (not sure how they could possibly melt them together)?
Yes, two sheets of glass are laminated with a tough layer of plastic in between.


Does it have to do with the fact that when a rock hits my windshield, it results in an indentation with cracks that spread slowly, instead of instantly shattering my whole windshield?
This leads to cracks propagating slower, and the shards of glass are held together if the window is crushed.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is A1 an "accident" in the sense of simply "something unplanned", not implying an injurious or tragic outcome? (like--as an unrelated example--the discovery of penicillin by realizing that mold on a dish kept bacteria from growing)
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 6:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is A1 an "accident" in the sense of simply "something unplanned", not implying an injurious or tragic outcome? (like--as an unrelated example--the discovery of penicillin by realizing that mold on a dish kept bacteria from growing) Indeed.

You don't need to figure out the exact details, I'll post the spoiler when you have the general idea.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does A1 involve glass shattering?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does A1 involve glass shattering? Yes.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were some windows/glass panes broken during the accident? Did something happen which gave someone the idea to use the glass-plastic-glass combination?

Was A1 related more to the glass shattering than to the layer idea?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 168
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Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were some windows/glass panes broken during the accident? No. Did something happen which gave someone the idea to use the glass-plastic-glass combination? Yes.

Was A1 related more to the glass shattering than to the layer idea? No, both.

I'm not going to ask you to ascertain the exact details of A1, it's enough that it gave the idea for shatterproof glass.

SPOILER!


In 1903, the French chemist Edouard Benedictus were retrieving some reagents from a shelf, when he accidentally bumped a glass flask which fell to the floor and broke. Amazingly, although the glass had broken into thousands of pieces, the flask still held together. As it turned out it had contained a solution of celluloid, an early plastic (still used in pingpong balls) which had dried to the inside. The layer of celluloid held the broken pieces of glass together.
Later, Benedictus read in the paper about the many serious injuries in car accidents, caused by shards of broken glass. He remembered the incident with the glass flask, and immediately set out to create a safer car window. After working and experimenting non-stop for 24 hours, he had produced the first pane of safety glass.
Unfortunately, automakers were reluctant to include the new safety glass in their vehicles, because it cost more (nothing changes, does it?). In World War I it was used for eye lenses in gas masks, and after it had proven itself in the war it was finally adopted by the automakers.

Thanks for playing (:
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you for a great puzzle, Galfisk. One never stops to learn... I had no idea glass could be combined with plastic, let alone what lied behind this invention.

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