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Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I always had a particular 'scrund' as a child which has been disabused for me over the last 15 years or so. What was/is it?
Natanz (Natanz)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What does scrund mean? It's not in the dictionary.

Did you make that grammatical mistake on purpose?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What does scrund mean? it's a word that Nimue made up to represent the concept of misconception - you will see it in a few of the puzzle titlesIt's not in the dictionary.that's why I put it in inverted commas

Did you make that grammatical mistake on purpose? which one?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Natanz, the original scrund definition from http://www.lateralpuzzles.com/discus/messages/2928/19056.html is "A scrund is a ludicrous misconception someone has that does not get corrected for a long time (say, at least a year) because the subject does not arise. Once the subject does arise, the ludicrousness of the misconception is immediately obvious to most people."

Is it a scrund about adulthood? About aging? About something adults are more likely to encounter than children? And does it matter what age you were "over the last 15 years or so? If so, adult? Older child and teen? Teen and young adult?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a scrund about adulthood? no About aging? no About something adults are more likely to encounter than children? no And does it matter what age you were "over the last 15 years or so? no it doesn't If so, adult? Older child and teen? Teen and young adult? so n/r
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it about people? things? animals? concepts?
Natanz (Natanz)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The mistake I meant was "which has been disabused for me".

Do you still have that scrund?

Is it a common scrund (many people have it at some time)?

As an adult, if others find out about it, would the scrund
- embarrass you?
- cause ridicule?
- make others think you're unintelligent?

Is it purely a cognitive scrund? Or a skill?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it about people? things? animals? concepts?this is closest

The mistake I meant was "which has been disabused for me". oh that one - no

Do you still have that scrund? no

Is it a common scrund (many people have it at some time)? I don't know - It would be interesting to find out from other puzzlers

As an adult, if others find out about it, would the scrund
- embarrass you? not unless they found out that I still had the misconception
- cause ridicule? I doubt it
- make others think you're unintelligent? not necessarily, it depends on circumstances


Is it purely a cognitive scrund? yes Or a skill? no
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Concepts such as love? feelings? human relations? how things work? how human society works?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Concepts such as love? feelings? human relations? how things work? yessish how human society works? none of the others
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

things like machines? natural laws?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

things like machines? no natural laws? yes
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Physics? Chemistry? Mechanics?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Physics? it's a sub-group of it Chemistry? Mechanics?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gravitation?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gravitation? no, although I regularly dreamt I was flying
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Astronomy (astro-physics)?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Astronomy (astro-physics)? no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm intrigued as to how one can be 'gradually' disabused of a scrund. I always had the impression that realising about scrunds was supposed to be an 'aha' moment... anyway.

Is the scrund about mechanics? quantum physics? electricity? magnetism? thermodynamics?

Could having this scrund have affected your behaviour in any every day situations?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and now I'm intrigued as to why I put 'gradually' in quotation marks...
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, John, so good to see you. How's it going?

I'm intrigued as to how one can be 'gradually' disabused of a scrund. I always had the impression that realising about scrunds was supposed to be an 'aha' moment... anyway. It was just something that I thought about one day, and I had 15 years or so of direct evidence to contradict my scrundy thinking - it wasn't a case of it taking me 15 years to realise my error

Is the scrund about mechanics? quantum physics? electricity? magnetism? thermodynamics? none of those

Could having this scrund have affected your behaviour in any every day situations?no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and now I'm intrigued as to why I put 'gradually' in quotation marks...

they're useless apostrophes from a greengrocer's shop - the apostrophe police having taken them off the carrot's and potato's.
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with geology? meteorology? climate change?

The 15 years or so of direct evidence: did you acquire this yourself in your every day life? While at home? Is water involved?

Does the relevant physics take place on the scale of atoms? microorganisms? pinheads? tennis balls? cars? houses? cities? continents? planets? solar systems?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with geology? meteorology? this one climate change?

The 15 years or so of direct evidence: did you acquire this yourself in your every day life? yes While at home? yes Is water involved? in part

Does the relevant physics take place on the scale of atoms? microorganisms? pinheads? tennis balls? cars? houses? cities? continents? planets? solar systems? um - it's metereology, so I guess that goes as far as our planet and it's weather system goes
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello Lynne! I'm good - currently procrastinating while writing up some stuff to include in the 2nd year report for my PhD

Was the scrund to do with rain? sunshine? hail? snow? sleet? fog? mist? air pressure?
Is it something of the form 'if you see x today then the weather will be like y tomorrow'?
Are TV weather forecasts relevant? Any old-wives tales about the weather relevant? 'red sky at night'?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the scrund to do with rain? sunshine? this in particularhail? snow? sleet? fog? mist? air pressure?
Is it something of the form 'if you see x today then the weather will be like y tomorrow'? no
Are TV weather forecasts relevant? no Any old-wives tales about the weather relevant? 'red sky at night'? no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you believe that something was a good predictor of sunshine? That something was more likely to happen when it was sunny? that it was more likely to be sunny when something happened?
That it was more likely to be sunny at a certain time of year? A certain time of day? In certain places?
Is it particularly relevant that you gained the relevant experience over the last 15 years? Did something happen 15 years ago that made it possible for you to gain this experience? Did you move house?
Something to do with the relationship between temperature and sunshine?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you believe that something was a good predictor of sunshine? in a very loose way That something was more likely to happen when it was sunny? no that it was more likely to be sunny when something happened? yessish but could lead you down the wrong track
That it was more likely to be sunny at a certain time of year? no A certain time of day? no In certain places? YES
Is it particularly relevant that you gained the relevant experience over the last 15 years? yes Did something happen 15 years ago that made it possible for you to gain this experience? see next q Did you move house? yes
Something to do with the relationship between temperature and sunshine? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you think it was sunnier closer to the equator? Sunnier in valleys than in mountains? Sunnier nearer the poles? Sunnier on one continent than another? Sunnier closer to the ocean?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you move house within the UK? From an urban to a rural area? Move further south? closer to the coast? From East to West? West to East? North to South? South to North?
Is it actually sunnier where you live now than it was before? Sunnier where you lived before? About the same?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you think it was sunnier closer to the equator? Sunnier in valleys than in mountains? Sunnier nearer the poles? Sunnier on one continent than another? Sunnier closer to the ocean? this one - why?

Did you move house within the UK? yes From an urban to a rural area? Move further south? closer to the coast? yes From East to West? West to East? North to South? South to North? actually I moved from either north or south to east
Is it actually sunnier where you live now than it was before? no Sunnier where you lived before? About the same? about the same

now put your mind in the mind of a child and using the information you have here to tell me my scrund and why I had it
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

because you go to the sea during summer holidays when there is obviously more sunshine than in winter?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

because you go to the sea during summer holidays when there is obviously more sunshine than in winter?indeed!

*********** SPOILER *************

I thought it was always sunny at the seaside because that's where we went for our two week summer holidays/vacations. My mind even filtered out the bad days that we must still have had. None of our photos were taken in the rain at that point, although later on there is a picture of us all huddled together on the same beach in the driving wind! Now that I've lived just a very few miles from 'the seaside' I know full well how the weather is the same as anywhere else (at least here in the UK)


Thank you one and all
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyone else think the same way as a child? Of course if you took your holiday in a hot country every year, that wouldn't count!
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was just about to write that something similar happened to me when I was a kid.

We used to spend our summer holidays at a place quite far from our home, and we mostly went there only for summer.

I remember my surprise when we went there once in winter, and I saw the familiar landscape covered with snow... Of course I knew, on the rational level, that it was not always summer there, but actually experiencing the change was quite a shock :-))
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had another scrund about the sea itself - that it gently laps and there are violins in the background. I'm four miles from the sea and our back garden backs onto nothing but fields until you reach the sea. On a windy night you can hear the sea. After the main road has quitened down (it's about 1/3 mile away) you can distinguish the sea from the odd car. The sound is different to the wind, that just plays around with the trees. It's a deep rolling sound. I think there's more likely to be a double bass playing than a violin. Just saying.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sounds like celestial harmony - or rather pelagic harmony? ;-)) Must be an amazing experience.
Natanz (Natanz)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So cute to have that scrund... did you already figure out why the ocean keeps moving back and forth? :>

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