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Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 2058
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Afternoon all

I've been meaning to run a scrund puzzle ever since Nimue introduced the concept

I'm a great fan of most sports and I'm sure I have many sporting scrunds, however this is one that I had for many years and involves boxing.

Over to you.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That they're genuine moves and not choreographed?
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this scrund about / could it be transferred to amateur boxing? professional boxing?

Is it about a particular boxer? The number of fights that a boxer usually fights? The frequency with which a boxer fights? The likelihood of a certain outcome? (e.g. KO, TKO, points, draw, DQ, no contest) The frequency with which boxers suffer from illness, etc. as a result of their careers (e.g. Muhammad Ali with Parkinson's)?
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it relevant that Boxing rings aren't circular?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne

That they're genuine moves and not choreographed? No

Logician

Is this scrund about / could it be transferred to amateur boxing? professional boxing? would work for both

Is it about a particular boxer? No The number of fights that a boxer usually fights? No The frequency with which a boxer fights? No The likelihood of a certain outcome? (e.g. KO, TKO, points, draw, DQ, no contest)No The frequency with which boxers suffer from illness, etc. as a result of their careers (e.g. Muhammad Ali with Parkinson's)? No... and I'm not sure I agree with this point

Ferrets

is it relevant that Boxing rings aren't circular? not at all
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would you be more likely to have the scrund if you don't watch boxing? if you watch it occasionally but aren't super knowledgeable about it? if you are a huge fan with fairly deep knowledge of the sport?
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, should have made it clearer - I wasn't trying to say that boxers regularly suffer from such problems. My wording, 'The frequency', was meant in the same vein as the earlier questions, along the lines of: "Was your scrund about how often boxers succumb, or do not succumb, to such problems?"...

Is the history of boxing relevant? Its origins?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would you be more likely to have the scrund if you don't watch boxing? no if you watch it occasionally but aren't super knowledgeable about it? yes if you are a huge fan with fairly deep knowledge of the sport? well i thought i had a deep knowledge but obviuosly didn't have. I would say if you knew everything about boxing you wouldn't have this scrund
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, should have made it clearer - I wasn't trying to say that boxers regularly suffer from such problems. My wording, 'The frequency', was meant in the same vein as the earlier questions, along the lines of: "Was your scrund about how often boxers succumb, or do not succumb, to such problems?"... I see your point. I'm always doubtful about the Ali example. I mean who's to say he wouldn't have Parkinsons had he not been a fighter. It may have accelerated it mind you

Is the history of boxing relevant? Its origins? No to both
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could you have a similar scrund about judo? cage fighting? tennis? football?
Is this scrund about something that happens during a boxing match? after? before? between rounds? about something to do with how boxers choose their opponents? about weight categories?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could you have a similar scrund about judo? cage fighting? tennis? football? none of these. Not sure about cage fighting though
Is this scrund about something that happens during a boxing match? yes after? before? between rounds? yes about something to do with how boxers choose their opponents? no about weight categories? no
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know almost nothing about boxing - do you mean it that the moves are not genuine but choreographed? In the light of this, I hope you will understand if my questions are somehow inept :-))

Are you referring to the pause (or whatever this is called) between the rounds, when the opponents are given drink, towels and moral support from their coaches?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know almost nothing about boxing - do you mean it that the moves are not genuine but choreographed? absolutely NOT In the light of this, I hope you will understand if my questions are somehow inept :-)) In my opinion there is no such thing as a stupid question

Are you referring to the pause (or whatever this is called) between the rounds, when the opponents are given drink, towels and moral support from their coaches? exactly
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 1:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know much of anything about boxing either. This should be interesting =)

The length of the time between rounds? Something the coach does between rounds? Something the boxer does between rounds? Something the referee does between rounds? Something the judges do between rounds?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know much of anything about boxing either. This should be interesting =) Interesting it may well be but I'm not expecting this to last much longer

The length of the time between rounds? No with a slight ish Something the coach does between rounds? No Something the boxer does between rounds? No Something the referee does between rounds? No Something the judges do between rounds? No
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something the audience does between the rounds?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something the audience does between the rounds? not this either
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something anyone relevant does between the rounds?

Something that happens between the rounds? The number of the breaks?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something anyone relevant does between the rounds? yes

Something that happens between the rounds? so yes The number of the breaks? no
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyone related directly to the sport? Present on the premises where the match takes place? A kind of helpers? Cheerleaders? Doctors?

Or indirectly related (such as press, TV)?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyone related directly to the sport? yesPresent on the premises where the match takes place? yes A kind of helpers? they are perfoming a function but wouldn't describe them as helpers Cheerleaders? Doctors? no to rest

Or indirectly related (such as press, TV)? No
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

judges? the referee?
Is this related to the scoring system that they use in boxing when a match 'goes the distance'?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bookies? People who are betting?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

judges? the referee? no to both
Is this related to the scoring system that they use in boxing when a match 'goes the distance'? no

Bookies? People who are betting? no to these as well... you've all pretty much exhausted all possibilities bar one
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

managers? owners? facility/arena operators?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

managers? owners? facility/arena operators? Still no i'm afraid . There's still someone that's present at boxing matches that hasn't been mentioned.
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Corner men? Ring card girls? Announcer?
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

TV/Radio commentators?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The cutman (but he is sort of a doctor, isn't he?) Assistant trainer?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 4:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cameramen? Is technology relevant? Would this scrund have applied before TV? Before radio? Does it apply only to professional boxing? Could it apply to amateurs? To bar-brawlers? To the professional but somewhat different boxing sport of the 1800s?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Corner men? no Ring card girls? No, i've always been clear about their role Announcer? YES!
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

TV/Radio commentators?

The cutman (but he is sort of a doctor, isn't he?) Assistant trainer? No to all , see above

Cameramen? \b{no} Is technology relevant? no Would this scrund have applied before TV? Before radio? yes to these I believe Does it apply only to professional boxing? No Could it apply to amateurs? yes To bar-brawlers? No To the professional but somewhat different boxing sport of the 1800s? No
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, you said it takes place between rounds (as well as, I believe, before and after) - I'm not aware of the announcer doing much of anything between rounds, but maybe I'm mistaken...

Is it a particular announcer? Michal Buffer? Jimmy Lennon?

Is a catch phrase (like "let's get ready to rumble") relevant?

Did you think that the announcer did something that it turns out he doesn't do? Or that he had some kind of authority?

(I guess what I'm thinking is, did you think that the announcer... gave the boxers the "rules"? ...did the count?

Any of the following relevant:
Announcer reading off a card or paper?
Microphone hanging from ceiling relevant?
Announcer's clothing?
Reading off the boxer's stats (weight, corners, trunk colors)?
Decribing the parameters of the fight itself (league, weight class, division, # of rounds, other rules)?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, you said it takes place between rounds (as well as, I believe, before and after)sorry it only happens between rounds and before the first round. Sorry if i gave a false impression - I'm not aware of the announcer doing much of anything between rounds, but maybe I'm mistaken...i'm afraid you are mistaken. This is not necessarily the guy who introduces the fighter but it is a ringside announcer

Is it a particular announcer? Michal Buffer? Jimmy Lennon? no it could be any announcer

Is a catch phrase (like "let's get ready to rumble") relevant? no to your example but I guess it is a kind of catchphrase

Did you think that the announcer did something that it turns out he doesn't do? no Or that he had some kind of authority? no

(I guess what I'm thinking is, did you think that the announcer... gave the boxers the "rules"? no...did the count? no

Any of the following relevant:
Announcer reading off a card or paper? no
Microphone hanging from ceiling relevant? no but the microphone is
Announcer's clothing? no
Reading off the boxer's stats (weight, corners, trunk colors)? no
Decribing the parameters of the fight itself (league, weight class, division, # of rounds, other rules)? no
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we're talking about the guy who says "Round #...1, 2" etc?
Is the bell relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we're talking about the guy who says "Round #...1, 2" etc? yes
Is the bell relevant? not really
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the term "seconds out" relevant? did you think that it refers to the time allowed for recovery being over now, rather than to the coaches to leave the ring? did you think that the break between the rounds has a fixed length? did you think that the announcer has the power to decide when the break is over? when a round starts?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the term "seconds out" relevant? Very Much So did you think that it refers to the time allowed for recovery being over now, rather than to the coaches to leave the ring? Exactly right. A knockout blow if ever i saw one did you think that the break between the rounds has a fixed length? did you think that the announcer has the power to decide when the break is over? when a round starts?

*************Spoiler***************

Nicely done Sundowner.

It's exactly as you said. When the ring announcer says "Seconds out round 2" I always thought this meant that the seconds between rounds had elapsed and it was time to start the next round. It didn't occur to me until I was about 15 that he actually meant that it was time for the coach and cutman in the corner who are known as 'Seconds' to leave the ring.

Anyone else have this scrund

p.s some announcers now say "Seconds Away" which would probably have prevented me having the scrund in the first place .

Sundowner rules KO !
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haha, this was good.

I had no chance to sort it out as I had no idea that somebody like a ring announcer exists, let alone what he says :-)). I liked your puzzle very much, though.

By the way, I'd like to ask something not relevant to the puzzle - is the word "windup" used in boxing, and what exactly does it mean?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, I take no interest in boxing, but I certainly have that scrund about seconds out.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or, I should say,had that scrund.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Lynne & Alhucema ,

I've never heard of the term windup used in boxing .

Glad to have exorcised another scrund.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Peter.

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