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Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 517
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How did the desire for good fishing lead to death, destruction and more death?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 382
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Death from illness? Natural disasters? War? Genocide?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 383
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Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and death of people? Of fish? Of other animals?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 919
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fishing with electricity/bombs involved?
Kalira (Kalira)
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Post Number: 227
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Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm... do I sense another puzzle Yabblesmacker won't be participating in? :-)

Fishing = attempting to catch a finned, scaled aquatic creature? using a rod (and reel?)? using a net? in the ocean? a lake? a smaller (natural) body of water? swimming pool? fishbowl? barrel?

Is the order of the consequences relevant (i.e. first there was death, then destruction, then death again)? Would the first "death" listed be that of any relevant fish?

Is there at least one relevant human involved in this puzzle? Is there more than one? Did the relevant person/people want to fish in order to catch food? to relax? to retrieve something?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 519
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Death from illness? Yope. Natural disasters? Noish. War? No. Genocide? No.

Oh, and death of people? Yes. Of fish? Yes. Of other animals? Probably, but irr.

Alhucema (Alhucema)

Fishing with electricity/bombs involved? No.

Kalira (Kalira)

Fishing = attempting to catch a finned, scaled aquatic creature? Yes. using a rod (and reel?)? Probably. using a net? Probably.in the ocean? a lake? This. a smaller (natural) body of water? swimming pool? fishbowl? barrel? =)

Is the order of the consequences relevant (i.e. first there was death, then destruction, then death again)? There are three distinct events, but they could happen in any order, likely at the same time. Would the first "death" listed be that of any relevant fish? Yope.

Is there at least one relevant human involved in this puzzle? Yes. Is there more than one? Yes. Did the relevant person/people want to fish in order to catch food? to relax? Likely both. to retrieve something? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 385
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the fish and people die from the same causes? Or different ones?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 520
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Do the fish and people die from the same causes? No. Or different ones? Yes, although the overall cause of everything is the desire for good fishing.
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 797
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Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 8:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they divert the course of a river? Or try to create a man made lake?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 524
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Martinfg

Did they divert the course of a river? No. Or try to create a man-made lake? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 395
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Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the fish die from overfishing? Or from a side effect of the techniques used to fish? Or from something else entirely?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 525
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Did the fish die from overfishing? No. Or from a side effect of the techniques used to fish? Noish. Or from something else entirely? Yesish.

Note for clarity: Although fish certainly die as a direct result of people fishing, that is not included in either of the "death"s.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 402
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Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did someone modify the lake? By adding chemicals? by removing debris from the bottom? By adding debris to the bottom?

Is it a man made lake (i.e. a reservoir)? A natural one? Relevant?

Were explosives used?

Were the people who died the same ones who wanted good fishing?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 528
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Did someone modify the lake? Yesish. By adding chemicals? by removing debris from the bottom? By adding debris to the bottom? No to rest.

Is it a man made lake (i.e. a reservoir)? A natural one? This. Relevant? No.

Were explosives used? Not at all.

Were the people who died the same ones who wanted good fishing? Perhaps some, but mostly no.
Cupofsun (Cupofsun)
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Post Number: 45
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...
I don't usually jump to conclusions but my first mental image was:
People ice fishing?
While others ice skate on the same pond?
The ice cracks?
Everyone falls through the ice and drowns?
Also destroying the fish's natural habitat?

Does anyone drain the lake?
Was this all caused by a human error?
Environmental reason?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 530
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cupofsun (Cupofsun)

Hmmm...
I don't usually jump to conclusions but my first mental image was:
People ice fishing?
While others ice skate on the same pond?
The ice cracks?
Everyone falls through the ice and drowns?
Also destroying the fish's natural habitat? No, but keep that one in mind! I don't recall ever reading any falling-through-ice themed puzzles.

Does anyone drain the lake? No.
Was this all caused by a human error? Yes, DOYD of "error." I have a new acronym. It means, "depending on your definition."
Environmental reason? Yesish.
Cupofsun (Cupofsun)
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Username: Cupofsun

Post Number: 49
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A stupid oversight made by humans? <--More my definition of human error.

Or

An accidental action made by humans? <--More what I am thinking now.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 535
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 2:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cupofsun (Cupofsun)

A stupid oversight made by humans? <--More my definition of human error. This.

Or

An accidental action made by humans? <--More what I am thinking now. No. That's what I thought you meant.
Cupofsun (Cupofsun)
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Post Number: 55
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap with questions:
So there are people fishing for pleasure and/or food?
Are they the ones who make a stupid oversight?
Causing a disaster?
And it causes them to die?
As well as many fish?
Thousands?
ALL the fish in this lake?
As well as other people who are not fishing?
Are these other people who die physically near the people who are fishing?
This all happens in a matter of minutes/seconds/hours?
Do the people all die from the same cause?
Drowning?
Are the fishing people on a vessel of some sort on the lake?
Are the non-fishing people?
Or the fishing people are on land?
The non-fishing people?
Is the weather involved at all?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 538
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cupofsun (Cupofsun)

Recap with questions:
So there are people fishing for pleasure and/or food? At some point, yes.
Are they the ones who make a stupid oversight? At some point, yes.
Causing a disaster? Yes.
And it causes them to die? Maybe a couple of them, but mostly no.
As well as many fish? Yes.
Thousands? Yes.
ALL the fish in this lake? No.
As well as other people who are not fishing? Yes.
Are these other people who die physically near the people who are fishing? Yope or irr.
This all happens in a matter of minutes/seconds/hours? NO, good q.
Do the people all die from the same cause? Yes.
Drowning? No.
Are the fishing people on a vessel of some sort on the lake? Perhaps at some point, irr.
Are the non-fishing people? Perhaps at some point, irr.
Or the fishing people are on land? Irr.
The non-fishing people? Hm. I'll say yope, but maybe explore?
Is the weather involved at all? No. Tiny ish.
Cupofsun (Cupofsun)
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Post Number: 60
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 4:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the non-fishing people ever on land?
On an island?
At Sea?
Outer space?
Underwater?
Flying?

This all happens in the matter of days/weeks/months/years/many years?

Is the death of the fishing people 1st/2nd/3rd?
The fish 1st/2nd/3rd?
The non-fishing people 1st/2nd/3rd
All at the same time?
Or two at the same time and one later?
Do the fish have something to do with the death of the non-fishing people?
Do the non-fishers ever eat the fish?
Do the fishers ever eat the fish?
Is it relevant what kind of fish?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 540
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cupofsun (Cupofsun)

Are the non-fishing people ever on land? Yes.
On an island?
At Sea?
Outer space?
Underwater? Noish.
Flying? No to rest. And don't let me get you off track, this is only a small part of the solution.

This all happens in the matter of days/weeks/months/years For all of it to transpire, probably this./many years?

Is the death of the fishing people 1st/2nd/3rd?
The fish 1st/2nd/3rd?
The non-fishing people 1st/2nd/3rd? Order irrelevant, but there are three events: two "death" events and one "destruction" event. Death of fishing and non-fishing people are all included in one event.
All at the same time? Could be.
Or two at the same time and one later? Could be.
Do the fish have something to do with the death of the non-fishing people? Yesish.
Do the non-fishers ever eat the fish? Irr.
Do the fishers ever eat the fish? Yes, irr.
Is it relevant what kind of fish? Yes, possible FA.
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 440
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does kind of fish = a specific species? Or general characteristics? If general...Freshwater? Saltwater? Schooling? Nonschooling? Large? Small?

Were they fishing for the same kind of fish that died?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1393
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Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 9:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Destruction:

- of a ship (fishing boat, perhaps)?
- building?
- other property?
- equipment?
- vehicle(s)?
- animals other than fish?

Destruction caused:

- by fire?
- water?
- wind?
- earthquake? Avalanche?
(that should cover all the classical elements!)
- enemy action?
- crushing?
- piercing?
- blunt damage?

Same causes as above, repeated for people and fish.

Era, location, season of year relevant? If so, which?

Whaling relevant?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 542
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Does kind of fish = a specific species? Certain species are involved, but not that important. Or general characteristics? Mostly this. If general...Freshwater? All are this. Saltwater? Schooling? Some are this. Nonschooling? Large? Some. Small? Some.

Were they fishing for the same kind of fish that died? No, good q.

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)

Destruction:

- of a ship (fishing boat, perhaps)?
- building?
- other property? Thisish.
- equipment?
- vehicle(s)?
- animals other than fish?

Destruction caused:

- by fire?
- water?
- wind?
- earthquake? Avalanche?
(that should cover all the classical elements!)
- enemy action?
- crushing?
- piercing? This in a very vague way, but...
- blunt damage? No to all.

Same causes as above, repeated for people and fish. Causes of death? No to all for people, And for fish...I suppose you could say enemy action, if fish have enemies...

Era, Noish. location, Noish. season of year relevant? No. If so, which? Since this is a true story, giving away the when and where might give away the puzzle. Sorry.

Whaling relevant? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 450
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Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the fish die by predation (were they eaten)? Parasitism? Illness? Competition from other animals?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 545
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 2:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Did the fish die by predation (were they eaten)? Yes. Parasitism? Illness? Competition from other animals? No to rest.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 499
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was something changed that resulted in an increase in predators? Are Nile Perch relevant?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 548
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Was something changed that resulted in an increase in predators? Yes indeed. Are Nile Perch relevant? Yes indeed. How did I know that you'd guess the backstory first?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 503
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, I won't ask any more questions about the fish, because I know that part and it's something that others can continue to figure out from what's known already. Everyone else, please don't Google Nile Perch because it will most definitely give that of the story away unnecessarily. But I don't know how the destruction or the people death's are related, so I'll keep working on those.

People's death caused by illness? Starvation? Poisoning? Fighting/war?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 551
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Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Ok, I won't ask any more questions about the fish, because I know that part and it's something that others can continue to figure out from what's known already. Everyone else, please don't Google Nile Perch because it will most definitely give that of the story away unnecessarily. But I don't know how the destruction or the people death's are related, so I'll keep working on those. Sounds good. =) And yes, no Googling for this one.

People's death caused by illness? Yes.Starvation? Poisoning? Fighting/war? No to rest.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 507
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Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the illness spread by:
- person to person contact?
- airborne germs?
- a small non-fish organism in the water (e.g. algae, dinoflagellates, bacteria, etc.)?
- food poisoning?
- mosquitos?
- Some other kind of insect?
- A bite from another kind of animal?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 553
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Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Was the illness spread by:
- person to person contact? No.
- airborne germs? No.
- a small non-fish organism in the water (e.g. algae, dinoflagellates, bacteria, etc.)? Yes.
- food poisoning?
- mosquitos?
- Some other kind of insect?
- A bite from another kind of animal? No to rest.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 518
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the small non-fish illness-causing organism in the water (henceforth called the "critter" until a better name is found) a new introduction to the water? If so, was it brought in by the increased predators?
Or was it a critter that was always in the water? If so, did it's population increase? Because of the predator eating too many of the fish that normally ate the critter?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 562
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Was the small non-fish illness-causing organism in the water (henceforth called the "critter" until a better name is found) a new introduction to the water? No. If so, was it brought in by the increased predators?
Or was it a critter that was always in the water? Yes. If so, did it's population increase? Yes! Because of the predator eating too many of the fish that normally ate the critter? Yes! I think you've basically got the cause of both deaths...
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 525
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh right. I guess the cause for the fish deaths was kind of buried in my questions about the human deaths. Whoops. So, I think at this point it's safe to sum up the following:

- A desire for good fishing led to an overabundance of a predator (Nile Perch)
- The Nile Perch ate tons of smaller fish (I'm assuming African Cichlids?)
- The smaller fish normally kept the critter population in check by eating them.
- However, because there weren't enough smaller fish, the critter population got out of control
- People got sick and died because of the critters.

Which of the following do we still need to figure out:
- How the overabundance of predators occurred [which I'll leave to other people to figure out]?
- How the critters made people sick?
- What the critters were? (or do we know enough already?)
- What the destruction is?
- How it is related to the predator overabundance?
- Anything else?

Did people get sick by drinking the water with the critters in it? By bathing in the water? By eating something that had been in the water? By eating something that drank the water?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 563
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Oh right. I guess the cause for the fish deaths was kind of buried in my questions about the human deaths. Whoops. No problem, the "destruction" is the most complex anyway. So, I think at this point it's safe to sum up the following:

- A desire for good fishing led to an overabundance of a predator (Nile Perch) Yes.
- The Nile Perch ate tons of smaller fish (I'm assuming African Cichlids?) Yes, and over half the native species went extinct (!).
- The smaller fish normally kept the critter population in check by eating them. Yes(ish).
- However, because there weren't enough smaller fish, the critter population got out of control Yes.
- People got sick and died because of the critters. Yes(ish).

Which of the following do we still need to figure out:
- How the overabundance of predators occurred [which I'll leave to other people to figure out]? This.
- How the critters made people sick? Not necessarily.
- What the critters were? (or do we know enough already?) You can guess this if you want, but it isn't necessary for a $p0i1.
- What the destruction is? Yes.
- How it is related to the predator overabundance? Yes.
- Anything else? No.

Did people get sick by drinking the water with the critters in it? This might cause it, but... By bathing in the water? This is most common. By eating something that had been in the water? By eating something that drank the water?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 533
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, and over half the native species went extinct (!). -- makes you sick, doesn't it? I used to work at a facility that is now a breeding site for a few of the cichlid species that were eliminated from the lake but that someone managed to collect a sample of before they disappeared. On the one hand, it was nice to see that effort was being made to perpetuate these species that didn't exist anywhere else, but on the other hand, I sometimes wondered what was the point of having hundreds of inbred fish that couldn't be put back in the lake? Anyway, back to the puzzle.

Was the destruction...
of something living? nonliving?
of something near the lake? something in the lake? something far away from the lake?
of something physical? or of a concept?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 568
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Yes, and over half the native species went extinct (!). -- makes you sick, doesn't it? I used to work at a facility that is now a breeding site for a few of the cichlid species that were eliminated from the lake but that someone managed to collect a sample of before they disappeared. On the one hand, it was nice to see that effort was being made to perpetuate these species that didn't exist anywhere else, but on the other hand, I sometimes wondered what was the point of having hundreds of inbred fish that couldn't be put back in the lake? Anyway, back to the puzzle. How interesting! I can't really think of a practical reason, other then to say, take a look, here are the species that we wont be seeing anymore. At least cichlids are pretty, though, and make nice pets.

Was the destruction...
of something living? Yes, directly. nonliving? Yes, mostly indirectly.
of something near the lake? This. something in the lake? something far away from the lake?
of something physical? This. or of a concept?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 564
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Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something living...
Plant? Animal? Fungus? Some other life form?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 583
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Something living...
Plant? This. Animal? Fungus? Some other life form? Probably the rest indirectly, but irr.
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 576
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Trees? Or herbaceous plants?

Did they chop down trees to clear space? To make something out of the wood?

Was the plant destruction deliberate? Or was it a side effect of something else?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 586
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Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 2:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Trees? Yes. Or herbaceous plants?

Did they chop down trees to clear space? No. To make something out of the wood? Yes.

Was the plant destruction deliberate? As in not accidental, yes. Or was it a side effect of something else? It was intended for a purpose.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 640
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they make fishing boats out of the wood from the trees? Some other tool for fishing? Houses for fishermen?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 623
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Did they make fishing boats out of the wood from the trees? No. Some other tool for fishing? Noish, OTRT. Houses for fishermen? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 645
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Coffins for the dead people? Tools for some purpose other than fishing?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 625
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Coffins for the dead people? No, good thought though! Tools for some purpose other than fishing? Yes, for svv of "tools".
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 657
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What they made from the wood...did it have to do with accommodating a larger population? Dealing with problems stemming from fishing? Facilitating a lifestyle change? Taking advantage of a benefit from fishing? Preparing for a perceived benefit of fishing?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 632
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

What they made from the wood...did it have to do with accommodating a larger population? No. Dealing with problems stemming from fishing? Yope. Facilitating a lifestyle change? Yes. Taking advantage of a benefit from fishing? Noish. Preparing for a perceived benefit of fishing? No.
Good line of questioning.
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 662
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the fisherman (or their families) build the "tools"? Did someone new to the area build them? If so, was it the government? Missionaries? New settlers? New fishermen?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 633
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)

Did the fisherman (or their families) build the "tools"? Probably. Did someone new to the area build them? No. If so, was it the government? Missionaries? New settlers? New fishermen? No to rest.
Cupofsun (Cupofsun)
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Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 6:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For your SVV of "tools"...
Were the trees left in their natural state after being cut down?
Cut down and moved elsewhere?
Were they fashioned to make another object?
Were the trees burned?
Were they used for firewood?
To heat homes?
To burn bodies? (sorry, but hey, this is lateral thinking territory)
To cook fish?
To smoke fish?



The lifestyle change they were accommodating, was it:
More people in the area?
More fishermen/women?
More fish to deal with?
Dealing at all with lots of sick people/dying people?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 645
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Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cupofsun (Cupofsun)

For your SVV of "tools"...
Were the trees left in their natural state after being cut down? Yes, just chopped up.
Cut down and moved elsewhere? Noish.
Were they fashioned to make another object? No.
Were the trees burned? Yes!
Were they used for firewood? Yes!
To heat homes?
To burn bodies? (sorry, but hey, this is lateral thinking territory)
To cook fish?
To smoke fish? This, no to rest.



The lifestyle change they were accommodating, was it:
More people in the area?
More fishermen/women?
More fish to deal with? No to all, this is closest.
Dealing at all with lots of sick people/dying people?
Cupofsun (Cupofsun)
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Username: Cupofsun

Post Number: 120
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 4:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so they cut down and burned the trees to smoke the fish?

Does this lead to them "destroying" they're forests?
Is this the destruction?

Is the lifestyle change because of this predator fish?
Because they don't have the other species of fish anymore because the predator ate them all?
Because of the deforestation?
Because of they money they are gaining/losing as fishermen?

So what else do we need to finish?
How the predators came into abundance?
What the destruction is (if not above?)
Anything else?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 650
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cupofsun (Cupofsun)

Ok, so they cut down and burned the trees to smoke the fish? Yes.

Does this lead to them "destroying" they're forests?
Is this the destruction? Yes.

Is the lifestyle change because of this predator fish? Yes.
Because they don't have the other species of fish anymore because the predator ate them all? Yes.
Because of the deforestation? No.
Because of they money they are gaining/losing as fishermen? No.

So what else do we need to finish?
How the predators came into abundance?
What the destruction is (if not above?)
Anything else? Nothing. The only thing left was why the fishermen suddenly started cutting down enough trees to destroy a forest, but that's too small a point to wait for. Spoiler to follow after my class. =)
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 651
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

***********SPOILER
Congrats to everyone, especially Noel for figuring the first two effects, and Cuposun for the third!

After depleting most of the stock of good game fish in Lake Victoria (which sits in Kenya, Uganda and Tanzinia), British colonists decided that they wanted some more good fishing. So they introduced to the lake a monster of a fish called the Nile Perch. Big mistake. What I list in the puzzle statement are just some of the effects.
1st death= The deaths of all the little native fishes that the perch devoured. Over half of these species went extinct.
Destruction= Before the introduction, African fishermen would generally go out in search of tilapia, a simple-to-prepare fish that can be dried in the sun. Their new fish of choice, the Nile Perch, was so large that it had to be smoke-dried with fire. This led to the need for more firewood, which led to the distruction of besically every forest in the area.
2nd death= Some of the native fish that the perch decimated fed on snails. With them gone, the snail population skyrocketed. And the bad thing about tropical snails is that they can spread nasty parasites to anyone who bathes in the water. There were a lot more reports of serious, even fatal cases of schistosomiasis after the introduction.

The moral: if you want to fish for Nile Perch, just go to the Nile.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Username: Tommyp

Post Number: 324
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Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...and don't let any Brits move animals over borders... "Would be nice with some rabbit hunting, can't hurt here in Australia, can it?"

I wonder if the Brits are guilty of Bufo Marinus in Australia as well...? :-)
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 719
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gourami, as soon as I realized it was about Nile Perch, I thought it was a GREAT idea for a puzzle. I wish I had thought of it! And I didn't know anything about the forests or the snails. Thanks for educating me.

It's such a sad situation. When Gourami says over half of the species went extinct, the thing to realize is that Lake Victoria is a huge lake, and it was EXTREMELY diverse. So we're talking about something like 200+ species of fish that went extinct, and hundreds more that became endangered. The worst part is that so many people have moved into fish there commercially now that the Nile Perch population is crashing, and the locals who used to fish there independently have mostly gotten pushed out and are often underpaid by the commercial fisheries and malnourished. So all this horrible stuff happened to the ecosystem, it made the lives of the people who lived there worse, and now it seems it wasn't even worth it because they're even having a hard time catching Nile Perch now. So sad!

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