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Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Many Americans (& non-Americans, too!) have an interesting scrund about American Jews. You don't have to be Jewish or American to guess it. So what is it?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does it relate to money? ceremonies? place of residence? clothing? physical appearance? jobs? education? travel? art? music? language? politics? beliefs? family relationships? romantic relationships? pets? hobbies?

does the scrund leave a negative impression of US jews? positive?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 8:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
does it relate to money? ceremonies? place of residence? clothing? physical appearance? jobs? education? travel? art? music? language? politics? beliefs? family relationships? romantic relationships? pets? hobbies? Just politics from this list

does the scrund leave a negative impression of US jews? positive? The scrund is negative but the reality is positive.
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the scrund that American jews have particular political beliefs? about a particular subject? the middle east? Israel? is it that they are very pro-israel but in fact they are actually more impartial?
or is the scrund that they do not have political beliefs? do not vote? vote in a particular way?

does the scrund relate to particular political parties?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 8:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is the scrund that American jews have particular political beliefs? no about a particular subject? no the middle east? noIsrael? nois it that they are very pro-israel but in fact they are actually more impartial? no
or is the scrund that they do not have political beliefs? nodo not vote? novote in a particular way? no

does the scrund relate to particular political parties? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the scrund about the role of american jews in politics? the number of US jews in political roles? does it relate to US jews as political candidates? is local politics relevent?

does the scrund relate to specific political positions?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Kdoc (Kdoc)
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is the scrund about the role of american jews in politics?yes the number of US jews in political roles? noishdoes it relate to US jews as political candidates? no is local politics relevent? no

does the scrund relate to specific political positions? yes
Hominid (Hominid)
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Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is is that Jews are more/less likely to be president? Senator? Congress? Governor? Mayor? Another political position?

Could a non-American Jew have this scrund?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hominid (Hominid)
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Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 10:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is is that Jews are more/less likely to be president? no Senator? no Congress? no Governor? noMayor? noAnother political position?yope

Could a non-American Jew have this scrund? Yes. The scrund is probably equally widespread among American Jews & non-Jews, although this is just my impression.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Is it about how heavily Jews are involved in politics? Conspiracy theories relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Is it about how heavily Jews are involved in politics? yesish Conspiracy theories relevant? yesish
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 9:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that Jewish Americans have not always been as deeply involved in American politics as they are today?

Is the scrund about the claim that Jews "run" America (I remember a whole website dedicated to proving that President Bush's cabinet consisted of many influential Jews who were supposedly puppeteers.)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 9:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it relevant that Jewish Americans have not always been as deeply involved in American politics as they are today? no

Is the scrund about the claim that Jews "run" America noish(I remember a whole website dedicated to proving that President Bush's cabinet consisted of many influential Jews who were supposedly puppeteers.)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Think about the area of American politics that is most commonly associated with Jews.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The conservative side of the political spectrum? Is the scrund that Jews are considerably more likely to identify or conservative? or vote Republican? than the average American? when in fact there is no significant difference? or in fact Jews tend to be liberal more often than the average?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 5:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
The conservative side of the political spectrum? no Is the scrund that Jews are considerably more likely to identify or conservative? or vote Republican? nothan the average American? no when in fact there is no significant difference? no or in fact Jews tend to be liberal more often than the average? American Jews are in general (with many exceptions, of course) quite a bit more liberal than Americans in general, & this fact is widely known in America. This apparently isn't true of Jews in all countries, though; I read somewhere than British Jews were apt to be conservative. Do any British people on the forum know about that? Anyway, the scrund isn't about Jewish liberalism vs. conservatism.)
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I didn't know that. I guess I had a scrund, that came from having known Jews who stood out as conservative in my liberal state of California and the even more liberal San Francisco area, plus the strong pro-Israel sentiment among conservatives.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2010 - 6:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I didn't know that. I guess I had a scrund, that came from having known Jews who stood out as conservative in my liberal state of California and the even more liberal San Francisco area, plus the strong pro-Israel sentiment among conservatives. I realize this isn't a question. But your comment is ORT (on the right track). Pursue it!
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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I didn't know that. I guess I had a scrund, that came from having known Jews who stood out as conservative in my liberal state of California and the even more liberal San Francisco area, plus the strong pro-Israel sentiment among conservatives. My data are national, not specifically about California, let alone the Sam Francisco Bay Area. So you may be right that Jews in these areas are more conservative than most other people in these areas. I lived in Palo Alto for 2 widely separated years & didn't notice anything specifically about Jews, but I wouldn't be likely to. Here's what I did notice. The much-vaunted liberalism & tolerance of the SF Bay Area sure doesn't extend to fat people. As puzzle regulars know, I used to weigh 257 pounds. My fat period included my second year in Palo Alto & people there were even more prejudiced against the obese than were people in New England.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2010 - 6:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap: Add the following to the puzzle description: The scrund concerns Amer. Jews in relation to a particular political area of concern. HINT: It's the super-obvious area of concern, probably the first thing anyone would think of in connection with Amer. Jews & politics.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, March 26, 2010 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Israel at all relevant? foreign policy?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Biograd (Biograd)
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Is Israel at all relevant? yes. Israel is the issue in question. Isn't that the main issue you think of in connection with American Jews' involvement in politics? foreign policy? yes--see previous answer
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Is the scrund that they: agree with US foreign policy towards Israel? Or that they disagree with it? Want to change it? Don't care about it? Care very much about it?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Is the scrund that they: agree with US foreign policy towards Israel? Or that they disagree with it? Want to change it? Don't care about it? Care very much about it? No to all!!
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But is the scrund about their attitudes towards the foreign policy? Or their attitudes towards Israel itself?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 1:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
But is the scrund about their attitudes towards the foreign policy? yopeOr their attitudes towards Israel itself? yope
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Think about a way in which American Jews are often criticized in connection with Israel.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2010 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ANOTHER HINT: Think about how American Jews make their influence felt when it comes to ploicy about the Middle East.
Mackadal (Mackadal)
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Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That they donate large sums of money to pro-Zionist causes? Their attitude towards Muslims/Palestinians? Would anti-Semites use this scrund to the advantage of their cause?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2010 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mackadal (Mackadal)
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That they donate large sums of money to pro-Zionist causes? yopeTheir attitude towards Muslims/Palestinians? yope Would anti-Semites use this scrund to the advantage of their cause? Possibly--Anti-semites & ethnocentric Jews are actually equally likely to have this scrund!!
Mackadal (Mackadal)
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2010 - 1:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Taking a shot in the dark here, but perhaps the assumption that Jews being violent, fighting for a cause or joining a military is ridiculous and unheard of, because Jews are "weak nerds"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Mackadal (Mackadal)
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Taking a shot in the dark here, but perhaps the assumption that Jews being violent, fighting for a cause or joining a military is ridiculous and unheard of, because Jews are "weak nerds"? Sorry, this is entirely OWT (on the wrong track); your earlier posting today was much more ORT (on the right track)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP: Add the following to the puzzle statement: The scrund involves politics and Israel. Money is also relevant. HINT: There are similar scrunds for several other American groups, including gun owners, farmers, and old people.
Mackadal (Mackadal)
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Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 3:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, those other groups are all traditional right-wingers, is that relevant? Does the relevant "money" refer to rich people? organizations? what money is spent on? how money is obtained? Does the money end up in the hands of Israeli citizens? the Israeli government/army? Palestinians? American Jews? American gentiles?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Mackadal (Mackadal)
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Hmm, those other groups are all traditional right-wingers, is that relevant? No. By the way, old people in America, are generally conservative socially but liberal fiscally Does the relevant "money" refer to rich people? yopeorganizations?yope what money is spent on? yeshow money is obtained? no Does the money end up in the hands of Israeli citizens? nothe Israeli government/army? yesish or yopePalestinians? no American Jews? no American gentiles? no
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, April 30, 2010 - 6:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund simply that American Jews are Pro-Israel?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Is the scrund simply that American Jews are Pro-Israel? no
Mackadal (Mackadal)
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Synagogues donate money to the Israeli government? Anything to do with synagogues?
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Mackadal (Mackadal)
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Synagogues donate money to the Israeli government? no Anything to do with synagogues? noish or no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Earlier in this puzzle, I gave a reply to Biograd that involved my saying that American Jews, on the average (& with plenty of exceptions, of course), were more liberal than other Americans. It turned out that I was oversimplifying. According to a recent article in the NY Times, although 80% of Amer. Jews voted for Obama & most still support him, Amer. Jewish organizations generally take conservative positions on the Middle East. Why am I mentioning this? It's a HINT!!
Cynic (Cynic)
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Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 5:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, it's hard to come up with an Israel-related answer that wasn't already ruled out by your reply here:

"is the scrund that American jews have particular political beliefs? no
about a particular subject? no
the middle east? no
Israel? no
is it that they are very pro-israel but in fact they are actually more impartial? no"

Is the scrund:

- That American Jewish lobby groups represent the attitude of the typical American Jewish voter?

(this doesn't really go with what you said about positive/negative in your first post.. so I'm guessing I'm not quite there yet)

Here's another go:

Is the scrund:

- That American Jews, or groups representing American Jews are the biggest financial sponsors of pro-Israel policy and aid (or lobby for such), when in reality it's more likely to be fundamentalist Christian groups or senior (gentile?) politicians with particular interests/goals in the Middle East (stability, resources, diplomacy, etc)

Hmm. Again, I'm not sure how to make that an objectively positive/negative connotation, but it does fit closer with what you said about gun owners and farmers.

Or is it simply that American Jews vote in blocs, or are typically "single-issue" voters? (this one misses a strong Israel connection though, as well as no real good/bad distinction)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Cynic (Cynic)
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Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 5:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Hmm, it's hard to come up with an Israel-related answer that wasn't already ruled out by your reply here:

"is the scrund that American jews have particular political beliefs? no
about a particular subject? no
the middle east? no
Israel? no
is it that they are very pro-israel but in fact they are actually more impartial? no"

Is the scrund:

- That American Jewish lobby groups represent the attitude of the typical American Jewish voter? no

(this doesn't really go with what you said about positive/negative in your first post.. so I'm guessing I'm not quite there yet)

Here's another go:

Is the scrund:

- That American Jews, or groups representing American Jews are the biggest financial sponsors of pro-Israel policy and aid (or lobby for such), when in reality it's more likely to be fundamentalist Christian groups or senior (gentile?) politicians with particular interests/goals in the Middle East (stability, resources, diplomacy, etc) no

Hmm. Again, I'm not sure how to make that an objectively positive/negative connotation, but it does fit closer with what you said about gun owners and farmers.

Or is it simply that American Jews vote in blocs, or are typically "single-issue" voters? no (this one misses a strong Israel connection though, as well as no real good/bad distinction)

HINT: The scrund is about the pro-Israel/American Jewish lobby, & also applies to other groups with strong lobbies, such as old people & gun owners
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Is the scrund related to laws/regulations around donations from lobby groups to political parties or political entities, at home and abroad?
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Is the scrund related to laws/regulations around donations from lobby groups to political parties or political entities, at home and abroad? no
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HINT: There's not much point to thinking about this as a scrund specifically about Amer. Jews any more; just think of it as a scrund about Amer. lobbies.
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Is the scrund related to: who they lobby? How they lobby? How much money they use on lobbying? How good they are at lobbying? How much weight they put on lobbying, compared to other activities? How many lobbyists they have? How cohesive they are as a group?
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Is the scrund related to: who they lobby? noHow they lobby? noish How much money they use on lobbying? yopeHow good they are at lobbying? yesishHow much weight they put on lobbying, compared to other activities? yope How many lobbyists they have? noish How cohesive they are as a group? no
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Is the scrund that lobbies "buy votes" with large campaign contributions, while in reality the link between lobbyist contributions and legislators' votes is much weaker than is commonly believed?

(See, for instance, http://web.mit.edu/polisci/research/representation/CF_JEP_Final.pdf)
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Is the scrund that lobbies "buy votes" with large campaign contributions, while in reality the link between lobbyist contributions and legislators' votes is much weaker than is commonly believed? noish, but you're very ORT (on the right track)
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HINT: What do Americans often say about lobbies in general & the Jewish lobby in particular??
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That they're corrupt? That they influence the government too much?

Does it have to do with the idea that the Jewish lobby is solely responsible for America's support of Israel? And thus a good deal of our problems in the Middle East? Depending on one's politics and knowledge of history, this itself may be considered a scrund -- In the '60s and '70s the US considered it an extension of the Cold War. And today, it's at least partly due to the fact that Osama hates both of us, and the enemy of my enemy is my friend...
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That they're corrupt? No. I don't have the impression that this charge is widespreadThat they influence the government too much? Yes, & it's relevant that many people say this. But whether the Jewish lobby influences the government too much is a matter of political opinion, which is hardly the sort of thing that can be a scrund. There's a closely related scrund, though.

Does it have to do with the idea that the Jewish lobby is solely responsible for America's support of Israel? noish And thus a good deal of our problems in the Middle East? noishDepending on one's politics and knowledge of history, this itself may be considered a scrund -- In the '60s and '70s the US considered it an extension of the Cold War. And today, it's at least partly due to the fact that Osama hates both of us, and the enemy of my enemy is my friend... My impression is that the Jewish lobby is a very important factor in US support for Israel, but not the only factor. The scrund is not how much influence the Jewish lobby has or whether this influence is in a good or bad direction. So what's left for a scrund??
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is the scrund the idea that the Jewish lobby actually represents the interests of Jews? When in fact it is politically based and is comprised of a few Jewish organizations but also many organizations that have nothing to do with Judaism whatsoever save for their stance on Israel?
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is the scrund the idea that the Jewish lobby actually represents the interests of Jews? no When in fact it is politically based and is comprised of a few Jewish organizations but also many organizations that have nothing to do with Judaism whatsoever save for their stance on Israel? no. HINT: Remember, I said that at this point, it would be best to think of it as a scrund about American lobbying in general.I started out with the Jewish lobby because it's the most prominent example of this scrund.
Nimue (Nimue)
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HINT: Consider the following questions: When Americans speak of the "powerful Jewish lobby," what attitude toward it are they usually expressing? How do Jews who support the lobby generally react to remarks about how powerful the lobby is?
Balin (Balin)
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Relevant that Americans tend to have a negative attitude towards all lobbies? But that most people are actually part of at least one?
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Balin (Balin)
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Relevant that Americans tend to have a negative attitude towards all lobbies? Yes. GOOOOOOD question!! But that most people are actually part of at least one? I don't know if that's true. In any case, it's irrel.
Balin (Balin)
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So Americans automatically assume the "powerful Jewish lobby" is too powerful? Or "using their powers for evil," so to say? And Jews would say that the lobby is using its influence to help better the lives of Jews?
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Balin (Balin)
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So Americans automatically assume the "powerful Jewish lobby" is too powerful? I doubt that people assume this automatically, but when people speak of the powerful Jewish lobby, they generally mean this as a criticism Or "using their powers for evil," so to say? yesishAnd Jews would say that the lobby is using its influence to help better the lives of Jewsirrel.
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Do they assume the lobby has a greater influence on politics than it actually does?
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Balin (Balin)
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Do they assume the lobby has a greater influence on politics than it actually does?no
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Would most Americans have this scrund about other lobbies?
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Balin (Balin)
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Would most Americans have this scrund about other lobbies? Yes. As I mentioned, its really a scrund about lobbies in general.The Jewish lobby is just an especially prominent one.
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Size of the lobby relevant? Influence?
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Balin (Balin)
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Size of the lobby relevant?Only insofar as influence is a function of size Influence yes
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Is it relevant that the lobbyists and their supporters may consider themselves far less powerful than outsiders do?
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Is it relevant that the lobbyists and their supporters may consider themselves far less powerful than outsiders do? noish
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Is the scrund about lobbies as a whole? Or about individuals: in the lobby? Supporting the lobby? Is it about what lobbyists actually do?
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Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Is the scrund about lobbies as a whole? yes Or about individuals: in the lobby? noSupporting the lobby? noishIs it about what lobbyists actually do? yes
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Is it about the methods used by lobbyists to influence politicians/lawmakers/courts? Is corruption relevant?
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Is it about the methods used by lobbyists to influence politicians/lawmakers/courts? yopeIs corruption relevant? yope
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hi nimue. anything to do with minorities? corruption? lobbyists pushing bills irrelevant to themselves? support of unpopular bills? is this particularly relevant to international issues?
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hi nimue.Hi Kerry8888 anything to do with minorities? well, Jews are a minority in America, but this scrund applies to American lobbies in general corruption? yopelobbyists pushing bills irrelevant to themselves? nosupport of unpopular bills? yesishis this particularly relevant to international issues? no
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is the scrund that people think that lobbies are effective in getting what they want but actually they aren't?
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is the scrund that people think that lobbies are effective in getting what they want but actually they aren't? no
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anything to do with lobbyists willing to take up any cause if the price is right? (an assumption on my part based on australian politics - sorry) lobbying for causes that have no hope but batting on regardless? lobbyists jumping from one side of politics to the other? is it more an ethics issue than a corruption one? is it how lobbyists go about their work? anything to do with the actual lobbyists themselves? (ie, age, gender, race creed etc)
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anything to do with lobbyists willing to take up any cause if the price is right? (an assumption on my part based on australian politics - sorry) possibly--in the U.S., thius is probably true of some lobbyists but not others, who are true believers some causelobbying for causes that have no hope but batting on regardless? nolobbyists jumping from one side of politics to the other? nois it more an ethics issue than a corruption one? yes is it how lobbyists go about their work?yopeanything to do with the actual lobbyists themselves? (ie, age, gender, race creed etc) no
Nimue (Nimue)
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HINT: If someone said to an American Jewish supporter of the Jewish lobby that the lobby was the main reason for America's pro-Israel policy, how do you think the supporter would react?
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i suspect they might think that the lobbyists were doing a good job!
is it as simple as americans thinking that jewish lobbyists (or females or gays etc depending on the issue at hand) lobby for issues that support their own situation? and take credit for any pro israel policies introduced?
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i suspect they might think that the lobbyists were doing a good job! You're ORT (on the right track), but in a funny way! See below!!
is it as simple as americans thinking that jewish lobbyists (or females or gays etc depending on the issue at hand) lobby for issues that support their own situation? and take credit for any pro israel policies introduced? No. HINT: It's almost the OPPOSITE of this!!
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Would they be offended by the THOUGHT that the lobbyists were the cause of the American pro-Israel policy?
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people think that (minority) groups remove themselves from any association with lobbyists/lobbying for issues that affect them personally as it may be seen to affect the credibility of the lobby? that it is better for lobbyists who appear to have nothing to gain personally to do the job? that this would appear more sincere and therefore more likely to be effective?
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Balin (Balin)
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Would they be offended by the THOUGHT that the lobbyists were the cause of the American pro-Israel policy? yes
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people think that (minority) groups remove themselves from any association with lobbyists/lobbying for issues that affect them personally as it may be seen to affect the credibility of the lobby? nothat it is better for lobbyists who appear to have nothing to gain personally to do the job? no that this would appear more sincere and therefore more likely to be effective? no


When Americans say that American's foreign policy is so pro-Israel because of "the powerful Jewish lobby," they virtually always mean it as criticism & Jews take it as such & often even take it as anti-Semitic, which is silly, as if there could be no legitimate political reason for thinking that American foreign policy is too pro-Israel. But what's also silly is for them not to reply in the way Kerry 8888 anticipated, i.e., by saying, "Yes, we are good at lobbying. Lobbying is a legitimate tool of democracy. Thank you for the compliment." This may have been a bad puzzle because of its dependence on knowledge about American politics. How does lobbying work in other countries? And, of course, you know where my replacement puzzle is.
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Ooops--I forgot to mention that this is a


********** SPOILER *****************


When Americans say that American's foreign policy is so pro-Israel because of "the powerful Jewish lobby," they virtually always mean it as criticism & Jews take it as such & often even take it as anti-Semitic, which is silly, as if there could be no legitimate political reason for thinking that American foreign policy is too pro-Israel. But what's also silly is for them not to reply in the way Kerry 8888 anticipated, i.e., by saying, "Yes, we are good at lobbying. Lobbying is a legitimate tool of democracy. Thank you for the compliment." This may have been a bad puzzle because of its dependence on knowledge about American politics. How does lobbying work in other countries? And, of course, you know where my replacement puzzle is.

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