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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 5482
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What's the one thing a patients can tell doctors that is almost bound to guarantee that they will give him good medical care (assuming he can get them to believe it)?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My insurer covers everything?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Seriously, though. Would the doctor give better care because she thought she would be well compensated? Because she feared possible repercussions of bad care? Because she believed your health was especially important? Because she believed your condition was easily treatable?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 10:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
My insurer covers everything? No. This puzzle would work just as well in a country where the governnment paid for all care.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 10:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Seriously, though. Would the doctor give better care because she thought she would be well compensated? no Because she feared possible repercussions of bad care? noBecause she believed your health was especially important? yesBecause she believed your condition was easily treatable? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2497
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"I'm working on a cure for cancer"? Something else that makes you seem important for the future of mankind? Or the medical profession?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the patient say something about himself/herself? About his/her own health? Social status? Job? Income? Education? Family? That he/she is a doctor? Say something about the doctor? About the doctor's health?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
"I'm working on a cure for cancer"? no Something else that makes you seem important for the future of mankind? Disgustingly enough, many doctors will treat you better if they think you're "socially valuable." But not all. Saying whast I have in mind is probably a better bet. Or the medical profession? see previous answer
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 1897
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would the patient say something about himself/herself? yesAbout his/her own health? noSocial status? no Job? no Income? noEducation? no Family? no That he/she is a doctor? no Say something about the doctor? noAbout the doctor's health? no
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 1901
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something about one's physical state? Mental state? Emotional? Spiritual? Social?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Something about one's physical state?b{ yesish} Mental state? noEmotional? no Spiritual? noSocial? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

About one's physical appearance? Stature?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 5486
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 12:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
About one's physical appearance? no Stature? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the thing the patient (whom I will, from now on, refer to in 2nd person to avoid confusion) says involve any other person? Just yourself?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 12:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the thing the patient (whom I will, from now on, refer to in 2nd person to avoid confusion) says involve any other person? noJust yourself? Just the patient
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 1:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it involve a specific body part? The entirety of the body? Any part of the body?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 1:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does it involve a specific body part? no The entirety of the body? yes Any part of the body? see previous answer
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you say that your body is unique? That it is a...something?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That they care about their body? Like to take care of their body? Or want to? Is what they're saying about their body something positive? Negative? Neutral?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 2:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Do you say that your body is unique? no That it is a...something? The sentence wouldn't have the form "My body is a _____' Although the remark involves my body, it doesn't specifically mention my body.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 8:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
That they care about their body? no Like to take care of their body? no Or want to? no Is what they're saying about their body something positive? see next answerNegative? see next answerNeutral?Opinions may vary, but most people would probably consider it neutral
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, July 09, 2010 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it make the doctor think more highly of the patient? Become more interested in the patient? Specifically in the patient's health? Would they see it as a challenge to provide as good care as possible? Hippocratic oath relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, July 09, 2010 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, July 09, 2010 - 9:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would it make the doctor think more highly of the patient? noish Become more interested in the patient? yesSpecifically in the patient's health? yes Would they see it as a challenge to provide as good care as possible? yesHippocratic oath relevant? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Follow up on the parenthetical phrase in the puzzle statement and find out what sort of patient can get doctors to believe the relevant claim about himself.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this group of patients defined by age? weight? ethnicity? pre-existing medical condition(s)? health of relatives? eating habits? amount of exercise?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 2:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will any doctors treat their patients better given this criteria? Or does it not apply to some? Perhaps the patients must be male, for example, so that an OB/GYN wouldn't be relevant to the puzzle.

If the patient were a child, could its parents make this comment? If so, would it have the same effect?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 1:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is this group of patients defined by age? yesishweight? ethnicity? no pre-existing medical condition(s)? no health of relatives? no eating habits? no amount of exercise? no
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 2:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Will any doctors treat their patients better given this criteria? Any patient who can make his doctor believe the statement will probably get very good treatment, but, as I said, not all patients can do this.Or does it not apply to some? see previous answerPerhaps the patients must be male, for example, so that an OB/GYN wouldn't be relevant to the puzzle. That's not it

If the patient were a child, could its parents make this comment? yes, but see next answerIf so, would it have the same effect? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could men say this and get the stated effect? Women? Teenagers? College students? Middle-aged people? The elderly?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 7:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Could men say this and get the stated effect? Some could & some could notWomen? ditto Teenagers? noCollege students? some could & some could not Middle-aged people? not if they looked middle-agedThe elderly? some could & some could not
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is one's appearance relevant? How old one appears to look? Would this work better for those who look young? Old?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 8:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is one's appearance relevant? yes How old one appears to look? yes Would this work better for those who look young? No--it wouldn't work for them at all Old? yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the statement usually be a lie? About one's age?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 9:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would the statement usually be a lie? yes--but sometimes it will be true About one's age?yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is one saying that he/she is younger than his/her actual age? Older? That "I look older than I actually am"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 9:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is one saying that he/she is younger than his/her actual age? no Older? noThat "I look older than I actually am"? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the doctor think that the patient is younger than he/she looks? Older? The same age?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 11:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would the doctor think that the patient is younger than he/she looks? irrel Older? ditto The same age? ditto
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is interesting...

does the patient say 'no other doctors have been able to find out what's wrong'?
does the statement relate to other healthcare professionals at all? to previous treatment?

does the statemen say something about the patient being told at some point they would be dead by now?

does it relate to wanting to reach a particular milestone? a birthday? does it relate at all to expectations of length of life?

does the statement appeal to the doctor's professional vanity? competitiveness? greed? compassion? selfishness? worry about litigation?

when asked about different age groups you gave a different answer to 'middle aged' than the others.. relevant? or could it just as well have read that elderly people couldn't use this statement if they looked elderly?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 11:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 11:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
This is interesting...

does the patient say 'no other doctors have been able to find out what's wrong'? no
does the statement relate to other healthcare professionals at all? noto previous treatment? no

does the statemen say something about the patient being told at some point they would be dead by now? no

does it relate to wanting to reach a particular milestone?yope--you're ORT a birthday?yope--you're ORT does it relate at all to expectations of length of life? yope

does the statement appeal to the doctor's professional vanity?possibly competitiveness? dittogreed? no compassion? dittoselfishness? no worry about litigation? no

when asked about different age groups you gave a different answer to 'middle aged' than the others.. relevant? yes or could it just as well have read that elderly people couldn't use this statement if they looked elderly?no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the patient mention something about the doctor? Only about themself? About other people?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 12:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the patient mention something about the doctor? noOnly about themself? yesAbout other people? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the person mention his/her age? That he/she wants to live? Has lived a good life? Wants to do something with his/her life? Something about his/her life?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Does the person mention his/her age? yes That he/she wants to live? possiblyHas lived a good life? noWants to do something with his/her life? no Something about his/her life?just his age!!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he say his specific age? Just the age in general (like "middle-aged")?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does he say his specific age? Just the age in general (like "middle-aged")?His SPECIFIC AGE, which, of course, is. . . .
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he 40? 45? 50? 55? 60? 65? 70? 75? 80? 85? 90? 95? 100? 101? 99?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If it's 99, is it because the doctors would want him to live to be 100?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is he 40? 45? 50? 55? 60? 65? 70? 75? 80? 85? 90? 95? 100? 101? 99? See below
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 2130
Registered: 4-2010

Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
If it's 99, is it because the doctors would want him to live to be 100? Yes!!

*** SPOILER *************

In the USA & UK ( & probably elsewhere as well), there's a lot of pressure on old people to die "with dignity," i.e.quickly & inexpensively. It's at its worst for people in their 70's & 80's. Make it to 95 & you're an interesting oddity, especially if you still have all your marbles (which about 50% of people that old do). Make it to 99, & even the worst ageist around wants you to live to be 100. If your octogenarian grandparents have to go to the emergency room, tell them to say they're 99. They'll get much better care!! In the meantime, there's a new puzzle awaiting you.

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