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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pretty much everyone has a scrund about a well-known law. What is it?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 1:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a traffic law? Would breaking the law lead to bodily harm? Property harm? Financial harm? Merely an annoyance to someone?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 4:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a traffic law? No. Would breaking the law FA. lead to bodily harm? Property harm? Financial harm? Merely an annoyance to someone? If you substitute a different term than "breaking," all of the above are possible.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 5:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A law in the legal sense? The physical sense (as, for example, Newton's)? The informal sense of a truism (as, for example, Murphy's)?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A law in the legal sense? The physical sense (as, for example, Newton's)? The informal sense of a truism (as, for example, Murphy's)? This. And it is Murphy's Law, by the way.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Origin of Murphy's Law relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Origin of Murphy's Law relevant? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it that Murphy's Law originally referred to a certain person, and now is referring to all people? That it originally said that when a person could screw up, he/she would, but now is taken as referring to simply bad luck?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 2:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it that Murphy's Law originally referred to a certain person, and now is referring to all people? No. That it originally said that when a person could screw up, he/she would, but now is taken as referring to simply bad luck? Not quite. It had the same wording then as it does now -- "Anything that can go wrong will."
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Murphy's Law originally referring to a specific incident? To human error?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 2:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Murphy's Law originally referring to a specific incident? No, though it was developed during an actual engineering project. To human error? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 3:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it that the law originally referred to harmful error, rather than harmless?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 3:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it that the law originally referred to harmful error, rather than harmless? Something like that, though I wouldn't call it harmless now. You are on the right track, though.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is danger relevant? Is it that the bad luck would put others in danger, rather than being a minor inconvenience?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is danger relevant? No. Is it that the bad luck would put others in danger, rather than being a minor inconvenience? No, though sometimes this does happen.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund about the origin of the supposed bad luck? Is the scrund that the law means "the universe conspires against you", when it's supposed to mean something else? Is Murphy's law used in different situations now, because of the scrund, than it was initially?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund about the origin of the supposed bad luck? No. Is the scrund that the law means "the universe conspires against you", when it's supposed to mean something else? Yes. Is Murphy's law used in different situations now, because of the scrund, than it was initially? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 4:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it supposed to mean "people, given a situation where they can do the correct or incorrect thing, will do the latter"? Did the origin of Murphy's Law involve people?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 4:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it supposed to mean "people, given a situation where they can do the correct or incorrect thing, will do the latter"? No. Did the origin of Murphy's Law involve people? In a sense.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the specific situation important? Did the law originally have a similar (but not exactly the same) meaning? The opposite?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the specific situation important? The general situation. Did the law originally have a similar (but not exactly the same) meaning? Related. The opposite? In a sense.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Murphy Original refer to the universe? Conspiring? Against? The speaker?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Murphy Original refer to the universe? No. Conspiring? No. Against? No. The speaker? The speaker is relevant.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the original law state that anything that can go wrong with an engineered product in real life, will also go wrong during the testing phase (or some other phase of development)? so the law points to the ability to foresee things going wrong, whereas the current understanding implies that situations are maximally UNforeseeable?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 2:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the original law state that anything that can go wrong with an engineered product in real life, will also go wrong during the testing phase (or some other phase of development)? No, but you're on the right track. so the law points to the ability to foresee things going wrong, whereas the current understanding implies that situations are maximally UNforeseeable? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 2:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the speaker an engineer?

Now that I think about it, I seem to recall that the original situation involved a part put in backwards (because there was no prevention against it), and that put someone in danger undergoing a dangerous test - is this correct? Relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 3:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the speaker an engineer? Yes (and his name was Murphy).

Now that I think about it, I seem to recall that the original situation involved a part put in backwards (because there was no prevention against it), and that put someone in danger undergoing a dangerous test - is this correct? I don't remember. Relevant? Possibly! Assume yes if you like.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 3:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the original law specifically refer to engineering? To products? To disasters?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 4:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the original law specifically refer to engineering? Yes. To products? Yes. To disasters? Not directly.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 4:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the law about product flaws? Potential disasters?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 4:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the law about product flaws? Yesish. Potential disasters? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 4:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it that if a product has a way that it will be used properly, but an equally possible way that it can cause a disaster, it will always be the latter?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 4:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it that if a product has a way that it will be used properly, but an equally possible way that it can cause a disaster, it will always be the latter? No. That's pretty much the gist of the current meaning...
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it that if a product has a way that it will be used properly, but an equally possible way that it can cause a disaster, sooner or later someone will use it in a way that causes disaster? That if something can be done incorrectly, sooner or later someone will do it?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it that if a product has a way that it will be used properly, but an equally possible way that it can cause a disaster, sooner or later someone will use it in a way that causes disaster? That if something can be done incorrectly, sooner or later someone will do it? Neither. Again, that's on the track of the current meaning. You're looking for the original.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the law refer to product: design? Manufacture? Use? Idiot proofing? Failure modes?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the law refer to product: design? Manufacture? Use? Idiot proofing? All, but primarily this. Failure modes?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 6:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it involve making sure that there's no way a person can screw up the use of a product, by instituting a design so that the error is not possible?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2010 - 4:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it involve making sure that there's no way a person can screw up the use of a product, by instituting a design so that the error is not possible? Yes.

*************

Lucky Spoiler

*************

Murphy's Law was initially a caution for engineers. Not an exasperated joke, but a serious warning that "whatever can go wrong will." While this reminded designers of the likelihood that their products would break under use, the intention was that they would prepare for that eventuality. The result was that engineers would look for ways in which their product might break down, then overdesign the appropriate components in order to prevent the breakdown.

The inventor of Murphy's Law was disgruntled when his rule was taken as a joke, because he meant it very seriously.

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