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Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3260
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They mystified him, so he sued them for theft.

They = them, he = him
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Username: Kaygee

Post Number: 461
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 4:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim that they took his money? time? reputation? other?

Was it their intent to be evasive? mysterious? unknown?

Are "they" a business entity? some other group of related people?
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3271
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Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 5:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim that they took his money? time? reputation? other? This

Was it their intent to be evasive? mysterious? This (very tiny ish) unknown?

Are "they" a business entity? No, I think some other group of related people? Yes
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2068
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Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it their intent to mystify him?
Did they intend to mystify the general public?
Was he mystified by what he saw? What he heard? What he smelled? What he touched?
Are "they" humans?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3278
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Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it their intent to mystify him? Yes, see next answer
Did they intend to mystify the general public? Yes
Was he mystified by what he saw? This What he heard? What he smelled? What he touched?
Are "they" humans? Yes
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2132
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Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he spend any money prior to being mystified? In the process of being mystified?
Did he invest time prior to being mystified? In the process?
Were "they" trying to sell a product? A service? Convey a message?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3361
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Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he spend any money prior to being mystified? Yes In the process of being mystified? Noish
Did he invest time prior to being mystified? Noish In the process? Yope
Were "they" trying to sell a product? No A service? No Convey a message? No
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2136
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Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we call "him" Joe?
If that's acceptable, would Joe have still been mystified by them if he hadn't spent any money?
Or in this case, did he have to spend money in order to experience something that mystified him?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3370
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Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we call "him" Joe? Sure
If that's acceptable, would Joe have still been mystified by them if he hadn't spent any money? Yes
Or in this case, did he have to spend money in order to experience something that mystified him? No, DOYD of "experience"
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 3456
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Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with an Isaac Asimov story?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 1268
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a magic show of some kind involved? Another form of entertainment? Was his interaction with them any different than that of the general public? Could someone else have the same complaint of theft? Could the charge actually hold up in court?

Did he spend money on admission? On an object? On a service? Did he donate it? Give it to them? Is he claiming that they stole an item that he bought before being mystified? An item he already had? An intangible idea, like his dignity? Innocence? An idea of his?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3373
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Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2010 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with an Isaac Asimov story? No - this is a true account

Is a magic show of some kind involved? Yes! "They" are magicians. Another form of entertainment? Was his interaction with them any different than that of the general public? No Could someone else have the same complaint of theft? I suppose theoretically, but the theft claim is utterly absurd! Could the charge actually hold up in court? Definitely not

Did he spend money on admission? Yes On an object? No On a service? No Did he donate it? No Give it to them? No Is he claiming that they stole the money he spent? No Or that they stole an item that he bought before being mystified? No

HINT: I'm not sure you could call the thing he claimed they stole an "item," per se. And the money is no longer relevant.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 1270
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What about my other questions above: An intangible idea, like his dignity? Innocence? An idea of his? Or, or, how about a person? Flashes of a Neil Gaiman story come to mind.

Is he angry that they showed him the solution to a trick? Or that they failed to? Did the audience get involved in the tricks in some way? Did they take a picture of the audience?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3393
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Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What about my other questions above: An intangible idea, like his dignity? Innocence? An idea of his? Or, or, how about a person? Flashes of a Neil Gaiman story come to mind. None of these, and sadly, I don't know who Neil Gaiman is.

Is he angry that they showed him the solution to a trick? Or that they failed to? This-ish Did the audience get involved in the tricks in some way? Did they take a picture of the audience? No to both

All that you really need to figure out is what he claimed they stole.
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3394
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Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CLARIFICATION: "Could someone else have the same complaint of theft?" - Theoretically, anybody could claim this, but no one could do so legitimately.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 1274
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is what they stole tangible? Tangible, but he never had it to begin with? Is it something that many people have? Something anyone has?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3417
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Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is what they stole tangible? No, and recall...they didn't steal it. Tangible, but he never had it to begin with? No Is it something that many people have? No Something anyone has? No (tiny ish)
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Username: Kaygee

Post Number: 463
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 6:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there one particular magic trick that caused his complaint?
If so: Was it levitation? Escape? Restoring what was just destroyed? Producing an item from nothing? Causing an item to disappear? Predicting the future? Guessing another person's thoughts? Passing a solid item thru other solid objects? (Whew...what am I missing?)
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3448
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there one particular magic trick that caused his complaint? No...
If so: Was it levitation? Escape? Restoring what was just destroyed? Producing an item from nothing? Causing an item to disappear? Predicting the future? Guessing another person's thoughts? Passing a solid item thru other solid objects? (Whew...what am I missing?) ...but all of these are relevant-ish to his claim.
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Username: Kaygee

Post Number: 464
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 3:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim that they had stolen from just him? one particular group of people in the audience? all audiences everywhere?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3495
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 4:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim that they had stolen from just him? This, and as a HINT, he claimed to be different, and superior, to other people. one particular group of people in the audience? all audiences everywhere?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 3059
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Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim supernatural abilities? Superior intelligence? Did he think they were doing something supernatural? That they had stolen some secret from him? Or ability?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3503
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he claim supernatural abilities? YES!! Superior intelligence? Did he think they were doing something supernatural? YES!! That they had stolen some secret from him? Or ability? YES!!

**********SPOILER**********

Copied from the TSA website:

"And the winner of the 2005 True Stella Award: Christopher Roller of Burnsville, Minn. Roller is mystified by professional magicians, so he sued David Blaine and David Copperfield to demand they reveal their secrets to him - or else pay him 10 percent of their lifelong earnings, which he figures amounts to $50 million for Copperfield and $2 million for Blaine. The basis for his suit: Roller claims that the magicians defy the laws of physics, and thus must be using 'godly powers' - and since Roller is god (according to him), they're "somehow" stealing that power from him."

In an interesting follow-up, a professional magician - James Randi, I believe - wrote to the TSA newsletter, commenting on the absurdity of the lawsuit, and asked to be sued himself! Roller obliged, filing a lawsuit against Randi making the same claims in his Copperfield lawsuit.

Roller has also filed lawsuits against George Bush, the CIA, and others, making other outlandish claims about himself, such that he will father one million babies, that he is Jesus Christ, that Katie Couric and one other celebrity (whom I forget the name of) are his wives and will father his children, and that Tom Hanks is starring as him (Roller) in a movie about his life.

Good news for the legal system: Roller's lawsuits were dismissed, and he has been barred from filing any more lawsuits against at least Copperfield, and possibly against all parties.

Excellent work to all of you involved - Kaygee, Ixoye, Gourami, Jenburdoo - you all asked great questions. Kudos also go to Galfisk for the close.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Username: Ixoye724

Post Number: 2140
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This one got solved before I could get back to ask more q's - good one!
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 3480
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've met James Randi - he's a professional skeptic who delights in debunking idiots like this. Good puzzle - I have a similar one in mind now.

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