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Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I used to have a passive scrund about American prisons, and most of my friends did, too. What is it? (A scrund is passive if it's something you never really thought about & realize that you took for granted only when you are surprised upon learning that it is false.)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 4:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund about all prisons? Maximum security? Supermax? Juvenile? Inmates relevant? Prison guards? Wardens? Visitors relevant? Visiting hours? Conjugal visits?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with remission of sentences for good behaviour?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund about all prisons? I'm not sure if it applies to all Maximum security? yes Supermax? unsure Juvenile? probablyInmates relevant? yes Prison guards? yes Wardens? no Visitors relevant? noVisiting hours? no Conjugal visits? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Anything to do with remission of sentences for good behaviour? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relationship between inmates and prison guards at maximum security prisons relevant? Is it a friendly relationship? Or friendly-ish? And you thought they were constant enemies? Or is it vice versa?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the amount of time that immates spend in their cells relevant? The amount of exercise they get? Their interactions with fellow prisoners? Prison food (hoping it's similar to your scrund about last meals of condemned men)?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry forgot to add solitary confinement to the list?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 10:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the relationship between inmates and prison guards at maximum security prisons relevant? yes Is it a friendly relationship? noish Or friendly-ish? noish And you thought they were constant enemies? irrel Or is it vice versa?
Peter365 (Peter365) ditto
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the amount of time that immates spend in their cells relevant? noThe amount of exercise they get? no Their interactions with fellow prisoners? yes Prison food (hoping it's similar to your scrund about last meals of condemned men)? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Sorry forgot to add solitary confinement to the list? irrel
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant how much time inmates interact with each other? With guards?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 10:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Relevant how much time inmates interact with each other? yesish With guards? yesish
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a sort of "community time" relevant (by which I mean a time where inmates and guards are all together)? A time when all the inmates are together? Prison fightS?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Is a sort of "community time" relevant (by which I mean a time where inmates and guards are all together)? not specifically A time when all the inmates are together? ditto Prison fightS? yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the frequency of prison fights important? Level of violence? Involvement of the inmates? The guards? How the fights are started? Who starts them? Injuries suffered? Weapons used?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 9:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the frequency of prison fights important? yes Level of violence? yes Involvement of the inmates? yes The guards? yes How the fights are started?yes Who starts them? noish Injuries suffered? noWeapons used? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 3:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are most fights initiated by inmates? Against other inmates? But you thought they started the fights against the guards? The other way around?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 3:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are most fights initiated by inmates?possibly Against other inmates? ditto But you thought they started the fights against the guards? noThe other way around? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relationship between the numbers of guards present and that of fights breaking out relevant? i.e. is the risk of fights breaking out directly porportional to the number of guards present?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 7:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 3:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are most fights initiated by inmates?possibly Against other inmates? ditto But you thought they started the fights against the guards? noThe other way around? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 8:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the relationship between the numbers of guards present and that of fights breaking out relevant? no i.e. is the risk of fights breaking out directly porportional to the number of guards present? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 2:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are injuries suffered in the fights relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Are injuries suffered in the fights relevant? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the scrund about the number of fights? the places where they occur? what they are about? how long they last? who stops them? who starts them? weapons used? amount of damage done to the participants? what they say to each other? how much blood is drawn? how many people watch? whether they happen secretly from other prisoners? whether the participants are male or female?

does the scrund relate to women's prisons? to differences between women and men?

is the scrund that fights are rarer than they actually are? more common?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 9:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is the scrund about the number of fights? noish the places where they occur? nowhat they are about? yope how long they last? no who stops them? nowho starts them? yopeweapons used? noamount of damage done to the participants? no what they say to each other? yopehow much blood is drawn? nohow many people watch? no whether they happen secretly from other prisoners? no whether the participants are male or female? no

does the scrund relate to women's prisons? no to differences between women and men? no

is the scrund that fights are rarer than they actually are? yope more common? yope

HINT: Fights are relevant to the scrund, but the scrund is more general than that--it's not just about fights.
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 12:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When you said no to "does the scrund relate to women's prisons" do you mean it doesn't apply in women's prisons? Or it doesn't relate to them directly?
Does the scrund apply to some condition necessary for fights to take place? Is the number of people involved in the fights relevant? The idea that fights generally escalate more/less quickly than you expected?
Would the scrund apply to a boxing match which took place within the prison gym? Could it apply to any individual fight? Or is it more about the nature of fights in general?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 12:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
When you said no to "does the scrund relate to women's prisons" do you mean it doesn't apply in women's prisons? Or it doesn't relate to them directly? I mean that gender is irrel.
Does the scrund apply to some condition necessary for fights to take place? yopeIs the number of people involved in the fights relevant?yope The idea that fights generally escalate more/less quickly than you expected? no
Would the scrund apply to a boxing match which took place within the prison gym? no Could it apply to any individual fight? seed next answer Or is it more about the nature of fights in general? yes, but remember, it's not JUST about fights
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the cause of fights relevant? Are prison riots relevant as well? The cause of those?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is the cause of fights relevant? yesAre prison riots relevant as well? yesThe cause of those? yes
Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund that most fights are caused by prisoners against prisoners? Against guards? Ditto with riots (against prisoners? against guards?)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 10:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the scrund that most fights are caused by prisoners against prisoners? Against guards? Ditto with riots (against prisoners? against guards?) no to all
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Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 6:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the scrund is about the cause -- is it about the purpose of the fight/riot/protest? For example, that riots are over poor treatment? Or due to overcrowding? Or serve to cover up other nefarious activities, such as escape?
Nimue (Nimue)
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If the scrund is about the cause -- is it about the purpose of the fight/riot/protest? noish For example, that riots are over poor treatment? noOr due to overcrowding? no Or serve to cover up other nefarious activities, such as escape? no
Balin (Balin)
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Is it about how many prisoners are involved in a fight? In fights in general? How many guards are involved?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 5:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Is it about how many prisoners are involved in a fight? noIn fights in general? That's PART of itHow many guards are involved? noish
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the size of the fight relevant? How violent it is? Deaths in fights relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is the size of the fight relevant? yope How violent it is? yopeDeaths in fights relevant? yope
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guard deaths in fights relevant? Prisoner deaths?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Guard deaths in fights relevant? not specificallyPrisoner deaths? ditto
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, September 17, 2010 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some background questions that are often asked would be useful here.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, was it your scrund about violence-related events that happen in prisons (such as fights, riots, and the like)?

The prisons -- "real" prisons, i.e. where people are detained after being subjected to a criminal trial and get convincted?

Time relevant? Country relevant? Nazi Germany? Soviet gulag? The inmates -- war prisoners? If time and/or country relevant, please [LTPF list of centuries] and [LTPF list of continents].

Wild guess -- jailbreaking relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 11:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So, was it your scrund about violence-related events that happen in prisons (such as fights, riots, and the like)?

The prisons -- "real" prisons, i.e. where people are detained after being subjected to a criminal trial and get convincted?

Time relevant? yes Country relevant? yesNazi Germany? noSoviet gulag? no The inmates -- war prisoners? noIf time and/or country relevant, please [LTPF list of centuries] and [LTPF list of continents]. Contemporary USA, probably in a maximum or medium security prison

Wild guess -- jailbreaking relevant? no
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Since USA contemporary prisons lie beyond my expertise, let's try it the hard way: Was you scrund about: people fighting? people fighting in prison? number of inmates fighting? number of guards resisting? number of 'victories' from the part of inmates? from the part of guards? I know that might sound silly, but is the fighting essential to puzzle or is it only a collateral? And in reality we should redirect our attention elsewhere?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 10:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Since USA contemporary prisons lie beyond my expertise, They're beyond mine, too. You can figure out what you need to know. let's try it the hard way: Was you scrund about: people fighting? people fighting in prison? number of inmates fighting? number of guards resisting? number of 'victories' from the part of inmates? from the part of guards? I know that might sound silly, but is the fighting essential to puzzle or is it only a collateral? As I mentioned., fights are only an EXAMPLE of the point at issue. And in reality we should redirect our attention elsewhere? yes--at something more general!!
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm... more general... conflicts in general? Does it relate to one of the following: food? clothing? A daemon says none of the above, so ... is religion -- in its broadest sense -- involved here? Or is it just an administrative fact that we should discover?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 11:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Hmmm... more general... conflicts in general? yesishDoes it relate to one of the following: food? no more than any other matterclothing{ditto} A daemon says none of the above, so ... is religion -- in its broadest sense -- involved here? ditto Or is it just an administrative fact that we should discover? noish, but the administration is relevant
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 7:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the scrund about: how conflicts arise in a prison? How they are handled by the jail administration? How they are later documented? Criminal law involved? (something like the inmates creating conflict can be sentenced for their acts)?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Was the scrund about: how conflicts arise in a prison? yesish How they are handled by the jail administration? yopeHow they are later documented? no Criminal law involved? no(something like the inmates creating conflict can be sentenced for their acts)? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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RECAP + HINT: The scrund is about hostile relations between prisoners & guards and also among prisoners.
Balin (Balin)
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Prison gangs relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Prison gangs relevant?The scrund applies to conflict among prisoners, so gangs would be a major part.
Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund simply about how much conflict there is between prisoners and guards? Between prisoners? Did you think there was more than there actually is? Less?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund simply about how much conflict there is between prisoners and guards? no, but you're ORT Between prisoners? ditto Did you think there was more than there actually is? yope Less? yope
Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund about the number of riots? The frequency of riots?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund about the number of riots? no The frequency of riots? noish
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Is it about the: reasons for conflict? Size of conflicts? Duration of conflicts? Handling of conflicts? Participants in conflicts?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Is it about the: reasons for conflict? yes Size of conflicts? yope Duration of conflicts? no Handling of conflicts? noish Participants in conflicts? yes
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There's a background question that puzzle-solvers often ask & that would be useful here.
Balin (Balin)
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Prisoners: HAM? Guards: HAM? (Trying...)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Prisoners: HAM? yes Guards: HAM? yes (Trying...) Try less general characteristics!
Balin (Balin)
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Height relevant? Weight? Family? Upbringing? Religion? Politics? Are we looking for physical characteristics? Tattoos relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Height relevant? no Weight? noFamily? noish Upbringing? no Religion? noPolitics? noish Are we looking for physical characteristics? yesTattoos relevant? no
Balin (Balin)
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Hair color? Muscular-ness? Eye color?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Hair color? yope or noish Muscular-ness? no Eye color? yope or noish
Balin (Balin)
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Are we looking for facial features? Facial expressions?
Noel (Noel)
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Is race relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Are we looking for facial features? no Facial expressions? no
Noel (Noel)
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Is race relevant? yes
Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund that most prison fights involve black prisoners? But that's not the case?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund that most prison fights involve black prisoners? noBut that's not the case? irrel
Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund that black prisoners tend to fight against white prisoners?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund that black prisoners tend to fight against white prisoners? You're ORT: HINT: The scrund is about the conditions under which racial animosity is likely to occur in prison. Remember: Guards are relevant!!
Balin (Balin)
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Is the race of the guards relevant? Just the prisoners? Is the scrund about racial animosity between prisoners only? Between prisoners and guards?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is the race of the guards relevant? noJust the prisoners? yesIs the scrund about racial animosity between prisoners only? yes Between prisoners and guards? no
Balin (Balin)
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Are any other minorities relevant? That prison gangs are made up of members of only one race? And they're actually mixed?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Are any other minorities relevant? The study I read didn't mention others, but I bet the scrund also applies in cases involving Latinos That prison gangs are made up of members of only one race? no And they're actually mixed?I don't know
Balin (Balin)
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Is it that white prisoners will "oppress" black ones? The other way round?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is it that white prisoners will "oppress" black ones? The other way round? noish to both
Balin (Balin)
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I know we're really close, but I can't quite put my finger on it....

Could you please recap?
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Balin (Balin)
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I know we're really close Yes, you are!!, but I can't quite put my finger on it....

Could you please recap? Add the following to the puzzle description: The scrund involves racial relations between black & white prisoners & relations between prisoners & guards. Conflict is relevant, which may include violence.
Balin (Balin)
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Is it that the guards will take the side of the black prisoners in fights? The white prisoners?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is it that the guards will take the side of the black prisoners in fights? no The white prisoners? no
Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund that black prisoners are more violent than white prisoners? The other way round?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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is the scrund that race relations are poor in prison? poorer than outside? or better than outside?

is the truth that race relations are better inside because the prisoners have a common 'enemy', the guards? and this is more powerful than their enmity to each other? or is this the scrund?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is the scrund that black prisoners are more violent than white prisoners? noThe other way round? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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is the scrund that race relations are poor in prison? no poorer than outside? no or better than outside? no

is the truth that race relations are better inside because the prisoners have a common 'enemy', the guards? Noish, but you're VERY, VERY ORTand this is more powerful than their enmity to each other?VERY, VERY ORT or is this the scrund? no
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Do the prisoners spend more time fighting with the guards than with each other?
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Noel (Noel)
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Do the prisoners spend more time fighting with the guards than with each other? Possibly--& this sort of issue is relevant
Balin (Balin)
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About which race of prisoners would be more likely to fight with other prisoners? With guards?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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About which race of prisoners would be more likely to fight with other prisoners? no With guards? no
Balin (Balin)
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Is the race of the guards relevant? Maybe that black prisoners would rather fight with white guards than white prisoners? Other way around? With races switched?
Noel (Noel)
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Maybe you thought guards spent all their time breaking up fights between groups of prisoners? But in reality they also fight with the prisoners?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is the race of the guards relevant? Maybe that black prisoners would rather fight with white guards than white prisoners? Other way around? With races switched? no to all
Noel (Noel)
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Maybe you thought guards spent all their time breaking up fights between groups of prisoners? no But in reality they also fight with the prisoners? possibly & this is relevant but not the scrund
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Balin (Balin)
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Is the race of the guards relevant? Maybe that black prisoners would rather fight with white guards than white prisoners? Other way around? With races switched? no to all
Noel (Noel)
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Maybe you thought guards spent all their time breaking up fights between groups of prisoners? no But in reality they also fight with the prisoners? possibly & this is relevant but not the scrund
Balin (Balin)
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Relevant who starts the fight? Who breaks it up? Deaths in the fight?
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Balin (Balin)
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Relevant who starts the fight? Who breaks it up? Deaths in the fight? no to all
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Frequency of fights relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Frequency of fights relevant? yesish or yope
Balin (Balin)
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Frequency of guard intervention in fights relevant? In fights between black prisoners? White prisoners? Is the scrund that the guards would be more likely to intervene in fights involving white prisoners? Would be more likely to take the side of the white prisoners? The other way round (races switched)?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Frequency of guard intervention in fights relevant? noishIn fights between black prisoners? ditto White prisoners? ditto Is the scrund that the guards would be more likely to intervene in fights involving white prisoners? noWould be more likely to take the side of the white prisoners? no The other way round (races switched)? no
Balin (Balin)
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Relevant how violent the fights become before the guards will intervene?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Relevant how violent the fights become before the guards will intervene? noish
Balin (Balin)
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That one race of prisoners is more violent in fights than another?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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That one race of prisoners is more violent in fights than another?no
Balin (Balin)
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That one race mainly fights other prisoners, and another race mainly fights guards?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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That one race mainly fights other prisoners, and another race mainly fights guards? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Guards taking sides in fights relevant? Race of guards relevant? Can you post a recap? Punishment for fighting relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Guards taking sides in fights relevant? no Race of guards relevant? noCan you post a recap? no Punishment for fighting relevant? no. RECAP: Add the following to the puzzle statement. The scrund involves interracial hostility between prisoners as well as hostility between prisoners & guards.
Balin (Balin)
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Is interracial hostility between prisoners and guards relevant? Is the scrund about whom a certain race of prisoners find to be more of an enemy? The guards? Another race of prisoners?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Did you think the persons are more likely to fight their own kind? Or the other way around?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Is interracial hostility between prisoners and guards relevant? Hostility berween prisoners & guards is relevant independent of race Is the scrund about whom a certain race of prisoners find to be more of an enemy? yesish The guards? possiblyAnother race of prisoners? possibly
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Did you think the persons are more likely to fight their own kind? noOr the other way around? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Monday, October 25, 2010 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

if one believed the scrund would it seem that relationships within the prison were better than they actually were? worse?

does the scrund assume that the guards behave more morally than they actually do? more sensibly? more fairly? - less - for any of these?

if you were a prisoner would you want the scrund to be true? false? would it depend upon your race?
if you were a guard would you want the scrund to be true? false? would it depend upon your race?

if you were the prison governor would you want the scrund to be true? false?

does the scrund assume people behave worse than they actually do? better?
does it assume things are safer in prison than they actually are? less safe?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Monday, October 25, 2010 - 8:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
if one believed the scrund would it seem that relationships within the prison were better than they actually were? under some circumstances worse? ditto

does the scrund assume that the guards behave more morally than they actually do? no more sensibly? no more fairly? no - less - for any of these? no

if you were a prisoner would you want the scrund to be true? under some circumstancesfalse? ditto would it depend upon your race? no
if you were a guard would you want the scrund to be true? under some circumstancesfalse? ditto would it depend upon your race? no

if you were the prison governor would you want the scrund to be true?probably not false? probably

does the scrund assume people behave worse than they actually do? under some circumstances better? ditto
does it assume things are safer in prison than they actually are? under some circumstances less safe? ditto
Nimue (Nimue)
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RECAP: The scrund involves interracial hostility among inmates, HINT: Under what type prison conditions are such hostilities most severe?
Balin (Balin)
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Under maximum security? Because the more violent offenders are there?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Is segregation of prisioners according to race relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Under maximum security? irrelish Because the more violent offenders are there?irrel
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Is segregation of prisioners according to race relevant? no
Balin (Balin)
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Under conditions where the prisoners are less closely guarded?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Under conditions where the prisoners are less closely guarded? noish
Balin (Balin)
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Under conditions where guards are hostile to prisoners? Or don't have a relaxed, casual relationship with them?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Under conditions where guards are hostile to prisoners? no Or don't have a relaxed, casual relationship with them? no
Balin (Balin)
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Supermax prisons relevant? Where the rooms are entirely white?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Supermax prisons relevant? not especially Where the rooms are entirely white? irrel
Balin (Balin)
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Under conditions where prisoners of different races are segregated?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, November 06, 2010 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the relevant type of prison conditions - related to:
total number of prisoners? ratio guards to prisoners? ratio of black to white prisoners? physical size of prison? number of prisoners per cell? availabilyt of outside space? number of hours spent in cell by prisoners? access to recreational facilities? level of security of prison? average length of sentence of prisoners? where the prison is geographically in the country? whether the prisoners get lots of visitors? level of overcrowding?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Under conditions where prisoners of different races are segregated? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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the relevant type of prison conditions - related to:
total number of prisoners? no ratio guards to prisoners? no ratio of black to white prisoners? nophysical size of prison? nonumber of prisoners per cell? no availabilyt of outside space?possibly number of hours spent in cell by prisoners? no access to recreational facilities? possiblylevel of security of prison? possibly average length of sentence of prisoners? nowhere the prison is geographically in the country? no whether the prisoners get lots of visitors? unlikely level of overcrowding? possibly
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, November 06, 2010 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are any of these relevant:
whether the prison is privately run or not? whether it is in the city or the countryside? whether there is accommodation provided for staff? the structure of the building? which gender of prisoners it takes? whether the guards are the same gender as the prisoners? the degree to which the races are mixed? the number of different races? the use of solitary confinemtn? religious facilities?

does the scrund relate to current prisons? to those in times gone past? to a difference between now and the past?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Kdoc

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Posted on Saturday, November 06, 2010 - 10:56 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
are any of these relevant:
whether the prison is privately run or not? nowhether it is in the city or the countryside? nowhether there is accommodation provided for staff? nothe structure of the building? nowhich gender of prisoners it takes? no whether the guards are the same gender as the prisoners? no the degree to which the races are mixed?possibly the number of different races? the use of solitary confinemtn?ossibly religious facilities? no

does the scrund relate to current prisons? yesto those in times gone past? probably but it's based on a recent soviological studyto a difference between now and the past? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP & HINT: Add the following to the puzzle statement: The scrund concerns interracial (black/white) hostility between prisoners and also treatment of prisoners by guards.
Balin (Balin)
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That guards treat white prisoners better than black prisoners? Vice versa?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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That guards treat white prisoners better than black prisoners? noVice versa? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP & HINT: The scrund involves the relation between the degree of hostility between black prisoners & white prisoners, on one hand, & a certain factor about how the prison is run, on the other hand. Find the other factor.
Noel (Noel)
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Does it have to do with how strict the guards are? How proactive they are about preventing fights? How fast they react to breaking up fights? How well they enforce the rules?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Noel (Noel)
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Does it have to do with how strict the guards are? yesish How proactive they are about preventing fights? noishHow fast they react to breaking up fights? noish How well they enforce the rules? yesish or yope. Some of these questions arfe ORT, but there's something even more relevant
Balin (Balin)
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How well black and/or white inmates are treated?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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How well black and/or white inmates are treated? yes
Balin (Balin)
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That white inmates are treated better than black inmates? Vice versa?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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That white inmates are treated better than black inmates? noVice versa? no
Balin (Balin)
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That they are treated the same? Are they actually treated the same?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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That they are treated the same?no Are they actually treated the same? irrel
Noel (Noel)
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If they treat the inmates well, are there more fights than if they treat the inmates poorly? Fewer fights?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Noel (Noel)
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If they treat the inmates well, are there more fights than if they treat the inmates poorly?That's what's true. Fewer fights?That was my the passive scrund.

********** SPOILER ****************

At last!! Wouldn't you think that brutal prisons would have more interracial hostility among prisoners than relatively decent prisons? According to sociologist Leo Carroll, the opposite is true, since in brutal prisons, prisoners of different races are apt to unite against the brutal guards rather than fight against one another. Thanks for sticking with it, everyone, & for solving it, Noel. You all know where my new puzzle is.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2010 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"At last" is certainly correct - this lasted quite a long time!

I had this scrund as well, but the truth makes much more sense when I think about it.
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Post Number: 6084
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, December 06, 2010 - 12:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's what makes it an interesting scrund!

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