| Author | Message | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11674 Registered: 4-2010 |
I know many people with a scrund about a certain game. While verifying that this was, in fact, a scrund (it is), I found that I too had a scrund about that game. What is the original scrund, and what is my scrund? | ||
| Potato (Potato)
New member Username: Potato Post Number: 331 Registered: 7-2010 |
The game: A board game? Card game? Any other game that you'd play directly with others (that is, not online)? A computer game? A console game? An online game? An RPG? A game that's also a sport? One that involves relatively much physical activity? | ||
| Larru (Larru)
New member Username: Larru Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2011 |
Is the original scrund involving words (and hearing them incorrectly)? What about your scrund? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 2317 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is the original scrund about a rule of the game? The origin of the game? The meaning of something in the game? A procedure? The history of the game? A particular person who is affiliated with the game? Same questions for your scrund? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11677 Registered: 4-2010 |
The game: A board game? Yes Card game? No Any other game that you'd play directly with others (that is, not online)? Yes, but it can also be played on a computer A computer game? A console game? An online game? An RPG? No to these A game that's also a sport? I'm sure some would consider this a sport; I'm not sure if I would though One that involves relatively much physical activity? No Is the original scrund involving words (and hearing them incorrectly)? No What about your scrund? No Is the original scrund about a rule of the game? This, No to rest The origin of the game? The meaning of something in the game? A procedure? The history of the game? A particular person who is affiliated with the game? Same questions for your scrund? Same answer | ||
| Doriana (Doriana)
New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 540 Registered: 12-2010 |
Is it a game for two players? Chess? Checkers? Go? For more than two players? Trivial Pursuit? Monopoly? Life? One where you roll dice? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11683 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is it a game for two players? Chess? This Checkers? Go? For more than two players? Trivial Pursuit? Monopoly? Life? One where you roll dice? | ||
| Doriana (Doriana)
New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 541 Registered: 12-2010 |
Chess rules, huh. Questions for both scrunds: Is it a rule that has to do with the pieces? The way they can move? Who can capture whom? Does it apply to the opening? middlegame? endgame? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1892 Registered: 11-2003 |
Would either of the scrunds have something to do with the names of the chess pieces? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11685 Registered: 4-2010 |
Chess rules, huh. Questions for both scrunds: Is it a rule that has to do with the pieces? The way they can move? Who can capture whom? No to all for both Does it apply to the opening? middlegame? endgame? This for both Would either of the scrunds have something to do with the names of the chess pieces? No | ||
| Doriana (Doriana)
New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 544 Registered: 12-2010 |
Checkmate relevant? What it is? How you achieve it? Any deeper chess knowledge necessary? (; | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11689 Registered: 4-2010 |
Checkmate relevant? No What it is? No How you achieve it? No Any deeper chess knowledge necessary? (; Only this: How can a game end other than checkmate? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1894 Registered: 11-2003 |
Draw/remis? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11692 Registered: 4-2010 |
Draw/remis? Yes! Both scrunds have to do with draws. | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1897 Registered: 11-2003 |
Are either of the scrunds related to what a draw is called? How it is determined it's a draw? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1330 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is zugzwang relevant? Promotions? Time control? Resigning? Draw? (If so: by the threefold repetition of a position? 50 moves rule? agreement? impossibility of a checkmate due to insufficient material?} | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 935 Registered: 8-2005 |
Stalemate? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11694 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are either of the scrunds related to what a draw is called? How it is determined it's a draw? They're both related-ish to ways to draw. Is zugzwang relevant? Promotions? Time control? Resigning? Draw? Only this (If so: by the threefold repetition of a position? 50 moves rule? agreement? impossibility of a checkmate due to insufficient material? None of these, with an -ish to threefold repetition. Stalemate? No | ||
| Docd (Docd)
New member Username: Docd Post Number: 133 Registered: 12-2004 |
Perpetual check? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11698 Registered: 4-2010 |
Perpetual check? For me, BIG YES. | ||
| Docd (Docd)
New member Username: Docd Post Number: 134 Registered: 12-2004 |
I used to believe (until recently) that perpetual check was part of the official rules of chess. Did you have the same scrund? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11706 Registered: 4-2010 |
I used to believe (until recently) that perpetual check was part of the official rules of chess. Did you have the same scrund? Until yesterday, Yes! One down, one to go... | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1345 Registered: 9-2009 |
Hmmm, perpetual check is NOT part of the official rules? How many of us lived with this certainty?? :-) For the other scrund: is it related to openings? middle game? end game? Is it the fact that you could open the game with two moves? | ||
| Docd (Docd)
New member Username: Docd Post Number: 135 Registered: 12-2004 |
Is the other scrund about perpetual check too? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11718 Registered: 4-2010 |
Hmmm, perpetual check is NOT part of the official rules? How many of us lived with this certainty?? :-) According to Wikipedia, it was part of the rules until the 60s, yet the books I learned chess from included perpetual check, and they were written in the 90s. For the other scrund: is it related to openings? middle game? end game? This Is it the fact that you could open the game with two moves? No Is the other scrund about perpetual check too? No - it's another way to draw which really isn't. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1348 Registered: 9-2009 |
50 move rule relevant? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11731 Registered: 4-2010 |
50 move rule relevant? No | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 1333 Registered: 10-2008 |
Just out of curiosity, when you say you thought perpetual check was part of the official rules, do you mean you thought it created an automatic draw? Or that the checker automatically loses? (I know that's a variant rule, one that I rather like) Could this other scrund be found in (mistaken) rulebooks? Is it something that people are taught incorrectly? Or is it the type of thing one might work out on one's own, but be wrong about? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11746 Registered: 4-2010 |
Just out of curiosity, when you say you thought perpetual check was part of the official rules, do you mean you thought it created an automatic draw? Or that the checker automatically loses? (I know that's a variant rule, one that I rather like) I thought it created a draw Could this other scrund be found in (mistaken) rulebooks? I highly doubt it Is it something that people are taught incorrectly? Or is it the type of thing one might work out on one's own, but be wrong about? Hmmm...I've heard it passed by word of mouth among junior high and high school students, so more likely the former than the latter. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11758 Registered: 4-2010 |
HINT: Figure out which chess pieces are relevant. | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 3072 Registered: 9-2010 |
Pawn? Rook/Castle? Knight? Bishop? King? Queen? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11763 Registered: 4-2010 |
Pawn? Rook/Castle? Knight? Bishop? King? This and this alone Queen? | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 3073 Registered: 9-2010 |
So since the rook/castle isn't relevant, it's not castling... Is the fact that the king can only move one space in any direction on any given turn (other than the aforementioned castling) at all relevant? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11769 Registered: 4-2010 |
So since the rook/castle isn't relevant, it's not castling... Correct, that's not the answer Is the fact that the king can only move one space in any direction on any given turn (other than the aforementioned castling) at all relevant? Yope. Remember that this is an endgame scenario. | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 1344 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is the scrund that a king can't checkmate another king? Or that he can? Master strategist that I am, I'd believe either one... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11777 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the scrund that a king can't checkmate another king? Or that he can? Neither Master strategist that I am, I'd believe either one... | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 2333 Registered: 7-2009 |
does it have to do with your king moving one space? not moving? being your last piece remaining on the board? moving in a particular direction? avoiding moving in a particular direction? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11781 Registered: 4-2010 |
does it have to do with your king moving one space? not moving? being your last piece remaining on the board? This, No to rest moving in a particular direction? avoiding moving in a particular direction? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 2335 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is the scrund that: If you only have a king left, you automatically lose? It's automatically a draw? You automatically can't win? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11785 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the scrund that: If you only have a king left, you automatically lose? It's automatically a draw? You automatically can't win? None of these I should clarify: the king moving in a particular direction is not relevant, nor are its legal moves (ish), but its moving in general is. | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 680 Registered: 6-2003 |
Did you think you can turn a pawn into a second king? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11793 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did you think you can turn a pawn into a second king? No - the scrund is only in effect when the king is the only piece on the board. (Of a particular color, I mean.) | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 3078 Registered: 9-2010 |
White? Black? | ||
| Kalira (Kalira)
New member Username: Kalira Post Number: 605 Registered: 2-2009 |
Did you think that once you only had your king left, that you automatically lost? couldn't move? So am I correct in thinking this has nothing to do with castling? trading pieces? the other 15 pieces your "side" begins the game with? Are the pieces you've captured relevant? The pieces your opponent has captured? The opponent's pieces still on the board? Specific pieces (other than your king) relevant? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 2337 Registered: 7-2009 |
Kings often don't move very far over the course of the game; it's pretty rare for them to reach the opposite end of the board from where they've started, for example. Is this at all related to the scrund? Maybe that there's some secondary goal to reach? A safe zone? Does it matter how many pieces the other player has left? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11796 Registered: 4-2010 |
White? Black? Could be either Did you think that once you only had your king left, that you automatically lost? No couldn't move? No So am I correct in thinking this has nothing to do with castling? trading pieces? the other 15 pieces your "side" begins the game with? Correct, those are all irrel Are the pieces you've captured relevant? The pieces your opponent has captured? The opponent's pieces still on the board? Specific pieces (other than your king) relevant? No to all Kings often don't move very far over the course of the game; it's pretty rare for them to reach the opposite end of the board from where they've started, for example. Is this at all related to the scrund? No Maybe that there's some secondary goal to reach? No A safe zone? No Does it matter how many pieces the other player has left? No RECAP: The scrund is that there is a certain way to draw in chess (in reality, this is not a draw). The scrund only applies when one side has only a king on the board. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1359 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is it relevant where the King is on the board when the 'draw' occurs? If so? Relevant file? Rank? On the borders? In a corner? In the middle? Will the scrund apply if the other color has only the king? The king and a pawn? A blocked pawn? The king and two rooks? The king and two queens? Relevant if the king can avoid checkmate a number of moves? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 2340 Registered: 7-2009 |
There is sometimes the situation when your King is not currently in check, but that any move he makes would put him in check. Normally that's ok, because you can just move another piece, but if you've only got your King, then you're stuck. I'm pretty sure that's still a checkmate, even though the King isn't actually in check, right? Did someone think that situation created a draw, instead? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11811 Registered: 4-2010 |
There is sometimes the situation when your King is not currently in check, but that any move he makes would put him in check. Normally that's ok, because you can just move another piece, but if you've only got your King, then you're stuck. I'm pretty sure that's still a checkmate, even though the King isn't actually in check, right? No, that's called stalemate, and is a draw Did someone think that situation created a draw, instead? Well, it does... Is it relevant where the King is on the board when the 'draw' occurs? No If so? Relevant file? Rank? On the borders? In a corner? In the middle? Will the scrund apply if the other color has only the king? No, because this would be a draw by inadequate material The king and a pawn? Yes A blocked pawn? If only the blocked pawn then No (draw by inad. material), if other pieces as well then Yes The king and two rooks? Yes The king and two queens? Yes Relevant if the king can avoid checkmate a number of moves? Yep, and I'll call it here. **********SPOILER********** Throughout childhood and my teens, I encountered a lot of students who believed that if the king is the only piece on the board for one side, and the king makes 21 moves without being mated, then it's a draw. However, this is nowhere in the rulebook, and I usually pointed this out (or won in less than 21 anyway). When I went to double-check this, I learned that perpetual check is not in the rulebook either (although it used to be). This surprised me, as I had learned that perpetual check was one of the ways to draw. Nice work everyone (and I mean EVERYONE - a lot of you worked on this), especially Rbruma, who gets the checkmate. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 11812 Registered: 4-2010 |
Oh, and bonus points to Docd as well, who captured the queen...I mean, figured out my scrund. And I used "double-check" in the $poyler - teh pun was not intended. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 2346 Registered: 7-2009 |
Whoops, you're right, it's stalemate. Unfortunately it has been months (or maybe even years?) since I played a game of chess, and over a decade since I've played with anyone who knows more than the basic rules. I guess I'm getting rusty. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1369 Registered: 9-2009 |
Nice one. I never heard the "21 moves rule", but I still consider "perpetual check" part of the rules, since I cannot see any situation in which a perpetual check will not eventually fall back on the 50 move. But I'm not Capablanca :-) | ||
| Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member Username: Gregoryuconn Post Number: 673 Registered: 9-2010 |
I know my middle school chess club used the "21 moves rule". It was basically to prevent matches from dragging on indefinitely. But it's not a real rule, although few of us knew it at the time. However, perpetual check will eventually lead to draw by threefold repetition (same position three times) or by the 50-move rule (no piece captured or pawn moved in 50 moves for each white and black). and in most perpetual checks it will eventually be a draw by mutual agreement. |
