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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 6584
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A well-known murder mystery set in academia gives a perfect illustration of what's wrong with the values of many professors. How come??
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The banana did it? Lol, just wondering if "Smooth Criminal" is relevant...
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 5:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well-known murder mystery...
From real life?
From a book?
A movie?
A TV show?
A play?

The questionable values:
Relating to getting tenure?
Publishing?
Publish or perish, taken literally?
Getting full professorship?

Amanda Cross relevant?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Agatha Christie relevant?

The relevant academia - college? Prep school? High school? Elementary school?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 12:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
The banana did it? noooooooooo Lol, just wondering if "Smooth Criminal" is relevant... no
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 588
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 5:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Well-known murder mystery...
From real life?
From a book?
A movie?
A TV show?
A play? from a novel

The questionable values:
Relating to getting tenure?not specifically
Publishing? yes
Publish or perish, taken literally? no
Getting full professorship? not specifically

Amanda Cross relevant?ICK--NO!! I LOATHE HER NAME-DROPPING, HACKNEYED FEMINIST RHETORIC, CARDBOARD CHARACTERS, & LIMP PLOTS. YEECH!!!!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 5:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Agatha Christie relevant? no. Of course, you can guess the novelist, but wouldn't it be more in the true lateral spirit to solve the puzzle by logic rather than by identifying the novel it comes from?

The relevant academia - college? Prep school? High school? Elementary school? In fact it's college, but it would work at most earlier levels (although less well at elem. school, maybe
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 13189
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stealing another's ideas? Taking excess credit?

So...I take it you don't like Amanda Cross? (I've never heard of her.)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 13189
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 9:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Stealing another's ideas? Taking excess credit?Well, academic dishonesty in general, The particular example in the murder mystery involves faking data, but your examples would work just as well.

So...I take it you don't like Amanda Cross? (I've never heard of her.) She's THE PITS!!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the problem with profs' values be that they're willing to do anything for academic recognition?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

or that fame or recognition are more important than pure pursuit of knowledge?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 9:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would the problem with profs' values be that they're willing to do anything for academic recognition?irrel (note that I didn't say false!! (although the 'anything' would hardly include murder)
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 9:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
or that fame or recognition are more important than pure pursuit of knowledge? irrel (note again that I didn't say false!!)
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the murder mystery, does one prof kill another prof? does a prof kill a non-prof? vice versa? Is more than one person killed?
Does a prof kill another prof because s/he wants to publish his/her work afterwards?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 10:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
In the murder mystery, does one prof kill another prof? nodoes a prof kill a non-prof?yesvice versa? no Is more than one person killed? yes
Does a prof kill another prof because s/he wants to publish his/her work afterwards? no
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the prof (H/A/M?) kill a student? a research assistant? a relative? a friend? someone "who knew too much"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 11:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the prof (H yes/A yes/M yes but irrel?) kill a student? noa research assistant? no a relative? noa friend? no someone "who knew too much"? yes, BUT the bad values of the murderer are not the point of this puzzle
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the bad values of many profs are not the bad values of the murderer, right? Are they the values of the victim? Or the values of the witnesses? (Were there any?)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 7:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So the bad values of many profs are not the bad values of the murderer, right? probably, anyway, it's irrelAre they the values of the victim? noOr the values of the witnesses? see next answer(Were there any? no)
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Note to self: Do not ask Nimue about Amanda Cross, ever.

The values of the professors were shown by:
Their reaction to the crime(s)?
Their reaction to finding a body?
Their actions during the investigation?
Their actions during the crime?
Their inactions at some point?

We have one murderer, correct?
Is this relevant?

More than one victim?
Is this relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 617
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 5:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Note to self: Do not ask Nimue about Amanda Cross, ever. Why? Do you object to hearing privileged people get criticized?

The values of the professors were shown by:
Their reaction to the crime(s)? yes
Their reaction to finding a body? no
Their actions during the investigation? see above
Their actions during the crime? no
Their inactions at some point? no

We have one murderer, correct? yes
Is this relevant? no

More than one victim? yes--three
Is this relevant? yes--it strengthens the objectionablilty of the professors' attitude
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why? Do you object to hearing privileged people get criticized? *laughs* No, I was just taken aback by the vehemence of your response. It was a little "WHOA! Don't hold back or anything. Tell me how you REALLY feel about her writing...

I think I got myself sidetracked with the mention of a certain author...
Do we know what field these professors are in?
Is this relevant?
Literature?
Social sciences?
Natural Sciences?
Law?
Business?
Fine Arts?
Medical?
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the professor(s) show apathy toward the murder(s)?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 6:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Why? Do you object to hearing privileged people get criticized? *laughs* No, I was just taken aback by the vehemence of your response. It was a little "WHOA! Don't hold back or anything. Tell me how you REALLY feel about her writing... Well, bad writing REALLY sets my teeth on edge. What about my own bad writing? I usually don't recognize its badness till it's too late, alas.

I think I got myself sidetracked with the mention of a certain author...
Do we know what field these professors are in? no
Is this relevant? no, but it's anthropology
Literature?
Social sciences?
Natural Sciences?
Law?
Business?
Fine Arts?
Medical?
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 8:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did the professor(s) show apathy toward the murder(s)? no, but you're VERY, VERY ORT
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the professors ignore the murders entirely?
Dismissed them as not important because:
Too many people were killed?
Too few?
Out of their scope of interest?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This reminds me of a joke on a T-shirt for history majors/profs/geeks:

"I'd be more interested in you if you were dead."
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 9:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did the professors ignore the murders entirely?
Dismissed them as not important because:
Too many people were killed?
Too few?
Out of their scope of interest?no to all
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the professors have a reaction to the murders?
Did they want to analyze them?
Write a paper on them?
Fight over who got to publish a paper on them?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it that the professors were more interested in what would happen to the persons work than the fact that someone had been murdered?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 1:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is it that the professors were more interested in what would happen to the persons work than the fact that someone had been murdered? This is close enough for me to declare a

******** SPOILER *************

In the wonderful mystery Dance Hall of the Dead, by Tony Hillerman, a graduate student in anthropology finds that his professor was faking archeological remains ("salting the site") & murders 3 boys who found out. The academic dishonesty upsets him far than three murders! Speaking of spoilers, I'm afraid I've spoiled this wonderful murder mystery for you. But please check out my new puzzle anyway.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks Nimue, nice puzzle!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, killing people is wrong, but academic dishonesty? Is there no honor in the world?

Very nice puzzle, Nimue!
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 12:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The murder mystery is so good you may like it even though I gave away the ending.

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