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Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1201
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 6:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sometimes it seems life is nothing but a complex dance of virtue and vice. That is certainly the case here!

I discovered a new way to indulge in vice through his virtue in obeying the commandment. He had learned of it because of the vice of certain men and yet, it had all started so innocently amongst virtuous women. Vice through virtue through vice leading back to virtue. What a complicated tangle!
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Trying to open the gates here... A very complicated puzzle statement. I miss the days of "He fired. She died. Explain why!" :-)

Are you (Ves) the subject in the statement?

Vice = immorality?

Is it a quote from a work of literature? (Sounds a little bit like Oscar Wilde to me :-) )

The commandment: one of the ten?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1206
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 12:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Trying to open the gates here... A very complicated puzzle statement. I miss the days of "He fired. She died. Explain why!" :-) Maybe I need to do one of those next. Thank you for bravely wading in!

Are you (Ves) the subject in the statement? I = Ves, Yes.

Vice = immorality? DYOD of immorality.

Is it a quote from a work of literature? No, based on true facts.

(Sounds a little bit like Oscar Wilde to me :-) ) He would have something pithy to say about the situation, I'm sure.

The commandment: one of the ten? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 3:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The commandment (in 9th-grade short version form):

No other gods?
No idols?
Don't take Name in vain?
Remember Sabbath?
Honor parents?
Don't murder?
Don't commit adultery?
Don't steal?
Don't lie?
Don't covet?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 886
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were the virtuous women the Vestal Virgins? some recognisable group like the Mothers Union or the Daughters of the Revolution?

or just random women who only had this in common?

is sex involved? eating? betting? playing games?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1208
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin
The commandment (in 9th-grade short version form) Short form is good enough!:
No other gods? No
No idols? No
Don't take Name in vain? No
Remember Sabbath? No
Honor parents? Yes
Don't murder? No
Don't commit adultery? No
Don't steal? No
Don't lie? No
Don't covet? No

Shez
were the virtuous women the Vestal Virgins? No
some recognisable group like the Mothers Union or the Daughters of the Revolution? Yes to recognizable, no to your examples.

or just random women who only had this in common? No

is sex involved? eating? betting? playing games?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1209
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, missed these!

is sex involved? No
eating? YES!
betting? No
playing games? No
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1216
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By the way Rbruma, my next puzzle is going to be dedicated to you as I'll be running one using your example simple statement. Thanks for the inspiration!
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 891
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

eating and adultery - sounds like my kind of thing!

are the virtuous women hunger strikers? weight-watchers? is the group ethnic? religious? show business? social? related to a sport? or hobby?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1218
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

eating and adultery - sounds like my kind of thing! Hey, you brought adultery into this all on your own. I only answered YES to eating. :D

Are the virtuous women hunger strikers? No
weight-watchers? No
is the group ethnic? Yope
religious? YES
show business? No
social? No
related to a sport? No
or hobby? No
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 894
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oops sorry - you said yes to honouring your parents - don't know what I was thinking!

are they nuns? are they fasting?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1221
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they nuns? YES!
are they fasting? No

Very brief Recap/Restate of the puzzle:
I discovered a new way to indulge in vice through his virtue in obeying the commandment to honor his parent (Mom). He had learned of it because of the vice of certain men and yet, it had all started so innocently amongst virtuous women (who were nuns).
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 896
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the new way to indulge HAS to be some form of eating naughty things. Cheezburger?

chocolate? ice cream?

is this a new way of eating sosmething already considered naughty?

did the nuns invent this thing? or this way of eating it?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1224
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the new way to indulge HAS to be some form of eating naughty things. Yes, absolutely!

Cheezburger? But not this...
chocolate? ice cream? Or these, though these are on the right track.

is this a new way of eating sosmething already considered naughty? Yes, new to me and DYOD of "naughty"

did the nuns invent this thing? This
or this way of eating it? No
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a dessert? Is the food "naughty" only because it is unhealthy?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1225
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a dessert? Yes

Is the food "naughty" only because it is unhealthy? And Yes

Thank you for clearing that up before we through endless rounds of how many different ways one can make edible representations of body parts.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is this dessert well-known?

is it served cold? frozen?

does it contain fruit? cream? alcohol?

when he obeyed his mother, had she told him to eat his dessert?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1226
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is this dessert well-known? As written, I can't answer this.

is it served cold? frozen? No and No

does it contain fruit? Not as a primary ingredient and not all varients contain any.
cream? alcohol? No to both

when he obeyed his mother, had she told him to eat his dessert? Possible FA and No
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

has this dessert a name which we might recognise? like Pavlova or Bavarois or Saverin? or is it more generic, like something pie or whatsit pudding?

is it named after the order of nuns? or their convent?

is the main ingredient sponge? rice? pasta? meringue? pastry?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 1:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

has this dessert a name which we might recognise? like Pavlova or Bavarois or Saverin? Good question - Probably not. See below.

or is it more generic, like something pie or whatsit pudding? A little of this.

A WORD ON THE DESSERT IN QUESTION: There is one particular dessert I have in mind but as it is unlikely that you all will randomly guess it I'm not going to be too picky about that. It belongs to a group of related desserts that share TWO key things in common that are very relevant to other parts of the puzzle.


is it named after the order of nuns? No
or their convent? No, but this is on the right track.

is the main ingredient sponge? No
rice? pasta? meringue? pastry? None of these.
Additionally the Specific Dessert does not contain these at all.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 6:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the dessert contain: coffee? chocolate? cream? eggs? fruits? fruit juice? nuts? almonds? milk?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the name something religious? or named for sin? gluttony?

is the main ingredient jelly? tapioca? semolina? custard? biscuit? bread? eggs? (mousse?) pancakes?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks in advance Ves for the next-to-be puzzle.

If eating this dessert, you are culpable of not honoring your parents (in some people's views, anyway), correct? If so, because of the ingredients? Because of the name of such ingredients?

Are any advices that one received from one's parents, that were not followed (thus disobeying the commandment), but by doing so (innocently) one created a new / better product? At least is this OTRT?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the "he" of the puzzle statement HAM? still alive? famous? a relative (friend? significant other? spouse?) of you?
He is (or was) honoring his mother? and in result you were eating this dessert?
Did he prepare (buy?) the dessert? did he get the recipe from his mother? is the mother still alive (if relevant)?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On a second thought, eating a delicious dessert cannot be a sin. So, your indulging in vice means something different.
Did you dishonor your parents by eating it? Did you prepare it on Sabbath? Has it a profane name?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner
Does the dessert contain: coffee? No
chocolate? No
cream? No
eggs? Yope
fruits? No
fruit juice? No
nuts? No
almonds? No
milk?No

Shez
is the name something religious? Yes for the specific dessert.
or named for sin? gluttony? No, but gluttony would be my "vice", DOYD.

is the main ingredient jelly? No
tapioca? No
semolina? No
custard? No
biscuit? No
bread? No
eggs? Still Yope ;)
(mousse?) No
pancakes? No

Rbruma
Thanks in advance Ves for the next-to-be puzzle.

If eating this dessert, you are culpable of not honoring your parents (in some people's views, anyway), correct? No, not correct.

The honoring of parents is only relevant in that I found out because HE was honoring his parents (mother, specifically).


If so, because of the ingredients? Because of the name of such ingredients? So No

Are any advices that one received from one's parents, that were not followed (thus disobeying the commandment), but by doing so (innocently) one created a new / better product? At least is this OTRT? Not really...

Sundowner
Is the "he" of the puzzle statement HAM? Yes
still alive? Yes
famous? A little. Let's say he is well known by some.

a relative (friend? significant other? spouse?) of you? No to these.

He is (or was) honoring his mother? YES
and in result you were eating this dessert? No

Did he prepare (buy?) the dessert? No
did he get the recipe from his mother? No
is the mother still alive (if relevant)? Yes but not terribly relevant.

On a second thought, eating a delicious dessert cannot be a sin. The Catholic Church would not agree.

So, your indulging in vice means something different. It doesn't. Shez already named my vice. See his Qs.

Did you dishonor your parents by eating it? No
Did you prepare it on Sabbath? No
Has it a profane name? No
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2011 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could you maybe do a recap? I'm a bit lost.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the dessert contain:
yolk?
egg-white?
cream?
flour?
tea?
alcohol?
seeds of any kind?
flowers?

Did you find out something because he was honoring his mother?
find out that this dessert exists? what it does contain? how it can be prepared? where it (or its ingredients) can be bought?

Have you eaten this dessert once before? if so: did you like it then?

Did he honour his mother by something:
- he did? (or refrained from doing?)
- he said?
- he wrote?

Was this a one-time event? or did it occur several times? is it an ongoing action?

Were you present yourself when he did whatever he did? if not: did he tell (or write) you? did he make this information public in some way? (like: write a book? a news article? a blog entry? give an interview?) was it reported in the news?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana
Could you maybe do a recap? I'm a bit lost. Sure thing. Let me get these questions and pull together a summary of where we are!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner
Does the dessert contain:
yolk? YES!
egg-white? No
cream? No
flour? No
tea? No
alcohol? No
seeds of any kind? No
flowers? No

Did you find out something because he was honoring his mother? YES!
find out that this dessert exists? YES!
what it does contain? how it can be prepared? And these…
where it (or its ingredients) can be bought? …but not this.

Have you eaten this dessert once before? if so: did you like it then? I have not

Did he honour his mother by something:
- he did? Yes
(or refrained from doing?) no
- he said? No
- he wrote? Yes, in writing about what he did and his motivation (honoring his mother) for doing so.

Was this a one-time event? Returning to the original statement, my discovering a new way…was a one time event.
or did it occur several times? is it an ongoing action? So no to these.

Were you present yourself when he did whatever he did? No
if not: did he tell (or write) you? No
did he make this information public in some way? Yes
(like: write a book? a news article? a blog entry? give an interview?) was it reported in the news? He posted an online article.

Again, since I don’t want to make this more complicated than it has to be, he’s a food writer for Salon.com and posted an article and recipe.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we have to find out what kind of dessert it is?
(I can't think of any dessert that consists of only yolk ..? -- sweet pudding, flummery, creme caramel, leche asado .. anything along these lines?)
Did the food writer honor his mother by naming the dessert after her? Did he invent the dessert? re-discover an old recipe?
Or was his honoring of his mother completely unrelated to the dessert? so he just did write about both? and by reading his articles you came across the recipe and tried it?
Did the nuns originally invent the dessert?
(maybe for a special occasion? or as replacement for something?)
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for the lack of recap. Haven't had the chance yet but it's on the list.

Sundowner

Do we have to find out what kind of dessert it is? Not the specifics, as I mentioned earlier I really doubt any of you will know the specific right off the bat.

(I can't think of any dessert that consists of only yolk ..? -- sweet pudding, flummery, creme caramel, leche asado .. anything along these lines?) Which is why it's going to be hard for you to guess the specific dessert. However, thank goodness there is the entire rest of the puzzle to work out. Like the how HE learned about it and those vice-filled men.


Did the food writer honor his mother by naming the dessert after her? No
Did he invent the dessert? NO!!
re-discover an old recipe? Yes

Or was his honoring of his mother completely unrelated to the dessert? No, it was directly related to the dessert.

so he just did write about both? Not "just" but he wrote about both and the connection between them.

and by reading his articles you came across the recipe and tried it? Irrelevant

Did the nuns originally invent the dessert? YES

(maybe for a special occasion? Not really
or as replacement for something? No)

There is a reason why this dessert could only be invented by a certain set of nuns (or in fairness, monks too) and that reason is important and tied to the rest of the puzzle.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the vice o vicious men also gluttony?
Did the vicious men hurt the nuns?
Were the vicious men supervisors of the nuns?
Did the nuns invent the dessert for the vicious men?
Did the nuns change somehow the recipe for the dessert for the vicious men (for example to get them drunk? to get them sleep?)
Are any ingrediens needed for the dessert, which were available only in convents at the time?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the vice o vicious men also gluttony? No
Did the vicious men hurt the nuns? No
Were the vicious men supervisors of the nuns? No
Did the nuns invent the dessert for the vicious men? No

Did the nuns change somehow the recipe for the dessert for the vicious men (for example to get them drunk? to get them sleep?) No

Are any ingrediens needed for the dessert, which were available only in convents at the time? Noish but this is absolutely on the right track!

Also to be fair, "convents" can be read as "convents and monastaries" but that's a lot to type.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Friday, June 03, 2011 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the men's vice pride? Envy? Lust? Anger? Greed? Sloth? Something else?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, June 03, 2011 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the men's vice pride? Envy? Lust? Anger? Greed? Sloth? Something else? Greed, with a side of Anger
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Friday, June 03, 2011 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the men monks? clergy? business people? merchants? noblemen? police? army? politicians? farmers?
Did they want to get hold of land owned by the convent? or other property?
Were they tricked by the nuns?
Any special facilities of the convent relevant? (like caves? cellars?) special knowledge of the nuns? privileges? (like brewing rights?) rules of the convent?
Is it a Catholic convent? does it still exist? Relevant in which country?
I'm not sure whether this was asked already: is honey an ingredient for the dessert?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2011 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the Catholic church really regard eating a delicious dessert a sin? doesn't bode well for the nuns who invented it

presumably the nuns kept hens so had plenty of eggs? or were the eggs from another kind of bird?

is a special pot or cooker or utensil required? water from a particular spring? heat from a volcano?

was the recipe one which his mother had previously used? or talked about?

did the vice men steal something? destroy something?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

zabaglione?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner
Were the men The greedy men, yes?
monks? Unlikely
clergy? Perhaps
business people? Perhaps
merchants? Perhaps
noblemen? Probably some of these
police? Unlikely
army? These are most relevant
politicians? Unlikely
farmers? Perhaps

Did they want to get hold of land owned by the convent? No
or other property? YES

Were they tricked by the nuns? No, and potential FA

Any special facilities of the convent relevant? No
(like caves? cellars?) No
special knowledge of the nuns? No

privileges? (like brewing rights?) Brewing rights are relvant for the monestaries who developed similar desserts, though not the specific one.

rules of the convent? No

Is it a Catholic convent? does it still exist? Not any one in particular and many still exist

Relevant in which country? YES!!

I'm not sure whether this was asked already: is honey an ingredient for the dessert? No

Shez
does the Catholic church really regard eating a delicious dessert a sin? doesn't bode well for the nuns who invented it DOYD. St. Gregory the Great and St. Thomas Aquinas both identified eating for the pleasure of it and induling in delicacies or luxurious food as a form of gluttony, which is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. So...the modern church? Probably not. Ever? Yes, at one point is was a form of sin. But enough philosophy.

presumably the nuns kept hens so had plenty of eggs? I don't know why we should assume that. Irrelevant.

or were the eggs from another kind of bird? Chicken, so far as I know.

is a special pot or cooker or utensil required? water from a particular spring? heat from a volcano? Irrelevant

was the recipe one which his mother had previously used? Nope.

or talked about? Yes!! To save everyone time here, she had actually never made the desert but had enjoyed it in her childhood and, once the name of the desert was known, the son sought out recipes for it and made some.

did the vice men steal something? Yes destroy something? Yes

zabaglione? This is very similar, but it can't be included in the "group of desserts" for one key reason. HINT: See Sundowner's Qs.
Shez (Shez)
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I think you may be referring to the alcohol? I don't know a generic name for eggy puddings - custard?

so did some soldiers steal a recipe from the nuns?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 5:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think you may be referring to the alcohol? I am not.

I don't know a generic name for eggy puddings - custard? I don't think there is one. And custard of all types would not fit into this "group" either because of the milk included. Also, custards use whole eggs, not yolks.

so did some soldiers steal a recipe from the nuns? No, and same FA here.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the soldiers physically in or at the convent when they stole whatever they stole?
Was the convent run over by soldiers? and subsequently also vandalized by other people?
Did the nuns still live there when this happened?
Was the recipe for the dessert kept by the nuns in secret? and after various acts of looting, stealing and vandalism the recipe became known to the public and made its way to the royal cuisine?
Was the convent in Europe? America? Africa? Asia? Australia? Was the dessert invented in the [LPTF list of centuries] century?
If brewing rights are relevant, some varieties of this dessert contain beer? or wine?
Does the dessert contain sugar? caramel?
Is it English Cream? Crème Brûlée? Bavarian Cream?
(I'm still curious what dessert this might be .. You'll have to prepare it for us when the puzzle is over : )
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the dessert have been invented in any of the convents/monasteries? In any convent/monastery in that country? In any convent/monastery of the same regulation?
Is lent relevant?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Sundowner
Were the soldiers physically in No or at the convent Also no when they stole whatever they stole? HUGE FA

Was the convent run over by soldiers? No
and subsequently also vandalized by other people? No
Did the nuns still live there when this happened? FA
Was the recipe for the dessert kept by the nuns in secret? No
and after various acts of looting, stealing and vandalism the recipe became known to the public and made its way to the royal cuisine? No and what? Who said anything about Royal anything?

Was the convent in Europe? YES
America? Africa? Asia? Australia? No to these

Was the dessert invented in the [LPTF list of centuries] century? Eh, the medieval period.

If brewing rights are relevant, some varieties of this dessert contain beer? or wine? No alcohol in the dessert

Does the dessert contain sugar? Yes
caramel? No

Is it English Cream? Crème Brûlée? Bavarian Cream? No to these (and again, you do not need to get the actual dessert. Shez was closest with zabaglione but that's not "this type" of dessert for 1 key reason.

(I'm still curious what dessert this might be .. You'll have to prepare it for us when the puzzle is over : ) Hee, hee. Sure thind. You just get yourself Tampa Bay and I will totally cook for you.

Redwine
Could the dessert have been invented in any of the convents/monasteries? Yes...and in fact desserts of "the type" were invented in a number of different religious houses.
In any convent/monastery in that country? YES! There is something VERY important about these religious houses that gave rise to the types of desserts.
In any convent/monastery of the same regulation? Less this.
Is lent relevant? No.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the dessert developed to use up a surplus?

is the important thing about the religious houses their location? the particular religious order? someting that they manufacture? some religious practice? an aspect of their way of life?

I am totally buying my ticket to Tampa Bay
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've overdue for a jaunt across the pond that would only help some of you. :D

was the dessert developed to use up a surplus? YES!! Very brilliant question.

is the important thing about the religious houses their location? No
the particular religious order? No
someting that they manufacture? YES
some religious practice? No
an aspect of their way of life? A little of this...
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana, thank you for bearing with me. At long last – Your RECAP!

RECAP:

I (Vesica) discovered a new way to indulge in vice (the enjoying of a decedent dessert) through his virtue in obeying the commandment (to honor his mother. He did so by posting a recipe and blog on Salon.com about this dessert, which she remembered from her childhood but did not know the name of or how to make it. I had never heard of the dessert before his post.)

He (the Salon.com food writer via his mother) had learned of it (the dessert) because of the vice (mostly greed) of certain men (who were mostly solidiers/army, with some clergy, noblemen and assorted folks thrown in) and yet, it had all started so innocently amongst virtuous women (who were nuns who invented the dessert in the medieval period. And in fairness, some monks invented very similar desserts for very similar reasons.)

Vice through virtue through vice leading back to virtue. What a complicated tangle!


IMPORTANT STUFF WE KNOW/TO FOLLOW UP ON:

The dessert:
* Involves egg yolks and sugar (and not a lot else)
* not named after the nuns, but this is on the right track as it is a religious name
* is sort of specific and I don’t think anyone is going to guess it. Figuring out the exact dessert (or related “type of desserts”) is not important.
* is a lot like zabaglione, but zabaglione is NOT in the related group for a key reason.

The men:
* their vice is greed
* they are mostly solidiers/army
* they were NOT in or at the convent
* they wanted property and stole/destroyed some stuff.

The nuns (and monks):
* invented this dessert for a reason
* the similar “types of desserts” were invented in religious houses in the same region/country for the same reasons.
* invented the dessert to use up a surplus

Country is the religious house are in is relevant. It is in Europe.

HINT: The puzzle statement is a continuous chain – I learned about this dessert because he did from his mother because of the men because of the nuns who invented it.

There are some missing links between his mother knowing about it back to the nuns but once a few things are determined, this should go fast.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Additional Hint:
There is something very important about he and his mother that hasn't been determined that might help you connect the two halves of this puzzle.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were the nuns using egg whites to make something else? the only thing that springs to mind is oil painting? unless you count meringues which is a whole nother vice...

is the country France? Spain? Italy? LTPF list of European countries please.

had his mother been religious? schooled in a convent? or had she once been a nun?

is the difference about the dessert that it's served cold?

I love being called brilliant
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Egg white is used as fining agent in making wine or beer. Is this relevant? Did the nuns make wine? beer?
Is the country relevant because of its (medieval) law? because of its geography? climate? people? customs?
I think we already established that it was a catholic convent? Was also the relevant country mostly catholic?
Is any activity of the nuns outside their convent relevant? something related to education? health care? charity work?
Did the nuns keep the recipe as a secret? because nobody should know that they were using up the yolk?
Relevant where the nuns got the eggs from? did they keep chicken themselves? did they trade some other product against eggs? did they receive the eggs as a form of subsidy?
Did the greedy men want to steal something? property of the nuns? of the convent? something else? completely unrelated to the convent?
Did they steal it eventually?
Did they break into a building?
Did the men live at the same time as the nuns? if so: in the same place? did they meet the nuns?
Did the men's actions cut off the supply of eggs for the nuns?
Did eggs become expensive as a result of the men's actions?
Did the writer's mother come from this country? or any relative of her? Was the writer's mother a member of this convent? or any relative of her?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were the nuns using egg whites to make something else? Yes (the monks too)
the only thing that springs to mind is oil painting? unless you count meringues which is a whole nother vice... No to these

is the country France? Spain? Italy? LTPF list of European countries please. Spain and Portugal

had his mother been religious? schooled in a convent? or had she once been a nun? NO to all

is the difference about the dessert that it's served cold? Nope, it was that it was from the wrong region, which we've now determined.

I love being called brilliant Really who doesn't? And I call it like I see it. ;)
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner
Egg white is used as fining agent in making wine or beer. Is this relevant? Did the nuns make wine? beer? YES!! This is one of the reasons they had so many yolks. And I think the vitners were more the monks, but winemaking is BIG in the Iberian peninsula.

Is the country relevant because of its (medieval) law? because of its geography? climate? people? customs? The winemaking mostly and the shared culture of cuisine and because of...

I think we already established that it was a catholic convent? Was also the relevant country mostly catholic? Yes, but not relevant.

Is any activity of the nuns outside their convent relevant? something related to education? health care? charity work? Yes, many convents/monastaries also served as laundries and apparently egg whites were used for starching, particularly nun's wimples.

Did the nuns keep the recipe as a secret? No or else a poorly kept one as "convent sweets" are a tradition throughout Europe
because nobody should know that they were using up the yolk? No

Relevant where the nuns got the eggs from? did they keep chicken themselves? did they trade some other product against eggs? did they receive the eggs as a form of subsidy? Totally irrelevant

Did the greedy men want to steal something? Ugh, I guess YOPE
property of the nuns? No
of the convent? No
something else? Yes
completely unrelated to the convent? YES!

Did they steal it eventually? yes
Did they break into a building? Probably quite a few

Did the men live at the same time as the nuns? NO! Hooray!!

if so: in the same place? did they meet the nuns? N/A, see above

Did the men's actions cut off the supply of eggs for the nuns? No
Did eggs become expensive as a result of the men's actions? No

Did the writer's mother come from this country? Spain or Portugal? NO! Another brilliant question
or any relative of her? Yope-ish
Was the writer's mother a member of this convent? or any relative of her? No to both
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the vicious men live before the nuns? after?
if after: did they know about the recipe?
did they take the recipe to another country?
to the country where the writer or his mother is from?
were the men deported to a colony? in Africa? in Latin America? in Asia?
Do we have to find out more about the nuns?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the vicious men live before the nuns? after? After
if after: did they know about the recipe? Yes
did they take the recipe to another country? Not directly, but yes
to the country where the writer or his mother is from? YES

were the men deported to a colony? Er, no...in Africa? in Latin America? in Asia? Asia is relevant

Do we have to find out more about the nuns? Only if you really like thinking about nuns. Otherwise, Nope - we got all we need on that AND the dessert.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the men go to Asia to colonise it? conquer parts of it? steal land or property?

Crusades relevant?

The Philippines?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the men go to Asia to colonise it? Yes! Hooray!!
conquer parts of it? Yes, a specific part, in fact.
steal land or property? Er, yes if you would consider colonization to be theft on a grand scale.

Crusades relevant? No

The Philippines? No
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 8:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

East Asia? South Asia? Southeast Asia? Russia and all the countries in there that used to be attached to it but aren't? The Middle East? Anything else I've forgotten?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 9:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, is the following chain true: You learned about the dessert from an article that was written by "he". He knew it from his mother, who presumably was from (or somehow related) to an Asian country. The dessert recipe arrived there by means of Hispanic colonists, who brought it from their motherland, where it was invented by nuns, using surplus they got from producing beer / wine.

Correct? If yes, what's left to determine?

Is the country China, by any chance?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guam? the Marianas? the Carolines?

Timor? Goa? Malaysia? Singapore? Borneo? Papua New-Guinea? Macao? Sri Lanka?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RbrumaAbsolutely correct.

Shez Macao is the country/territory.

You-know-what coming right up!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

****** SPOILER ******

On April 4, Francis Lam, a food writer for Salon.com, posted an article about ‘Saint Teresa’s Egg Yolks’ (YEMAS DE SANTA TERESA). He began the article talking about his family’s food culture and some of the more indulgent things they enjoyed (pork belly sliders were mentioned). He wrote,

“Even Mom, the most vocal worrywart in the family, is not immune to the allure of fatty treats. Every so often over the years, she'd wax rhapsodic about the baroque, egg-laden Portuguese sweets she grew up with in Macau, which was at that time a Portuguese protectorate. I was intrigued by her descriptions of them and by the fact that none of these treats seemed to have a name, at least not that she could remember. One of these, she said, consisted of "tiny strands of egg yolk cooked in sugar, like a little birds' nest"; another was "a ball of egg yolk that has crunchy sugar on the outside but is creamy when you bite into it". How could these mysterious wonders not have names?”

She happened upon a company that shipped similar sounding treats worldwide. He described their ‘Saint Teresa’s Egg Yolks’ as “tiny, round convent sweets made of egg yolks, an artisanal specialty made for hundreds of years by an order of Spanish nuns in the walled medieval town of Avila. The description said they were crunchy with sugar on the outside with insides that dissolved on the tongue "without any pressure."

Armed with a name, he found some recipes online (albeit in Spanish and Portuguese) and shared these treats with the world (and me) by publishing the article.

I found it interesting that he knew about them because of his mother, who knew about them because Macau had been a Portuguese territory/colony and Macau had absorbed elements of the Iberian food culture, which includes, in the words of Lam “an obsession with cramming as many egg yolks as possible into the dessert course”.

However, there is a historical reason for this as many of these traditional desserts were ‘convent sweets’ dating from the middle ages and tied to the winemaking traditions in these countries which used egg whites for the fining/clarifying process…leaving lots of egg yolks to be used up in other ways.

So – a little cholesterol bomb of a dessert that I learned of because Lam loves his Momma, who learned of it because a bunch of dudes decided to go take over a place on the other side of the world, which all started with very frugal nuns and monks, using every bit of the resources they had. Quite the complicated process to hook me up with a recipe!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The article can be read here:

http://www.salon.com/food/kitchen_challenge/2011/04/04/saint_theresas_egg_yolks

The recipe is as follows:

YEMAS DE SANTA TERESA

INGREDIENTS
8 egg yolks
½ cup sugar
1/3 cup plus 2 teaspoons water
½ stick cinnamon
zest of 2/3 lemon
Additional sugar for coating

DIRECTIONS

1. Beat the egg yolks, then pass them through a fine-meshed strainer into a heat-proof bowl.

2. Combine the remaining ingredients in a small, heavy saucepan. Bring to a boil over medium heat and cook until the syrup reaches the soft-ball stage (There are two easy ways to tell: If you use a candy thermometer, this stage is between 235 and 240 degrees F. The low-tech way to test for readiness is to drop a small amount of the syrup into a bowl of ice water. If the syrup is ready, it will form a soft little ball that you can easily pick up and press flat between your fingers; if it's not ready yet, it will dissolve in the water).

3. Remove the cinnamon stick and lemon zest from the syrup, then gradually whisk the syrup into the egg yolks.

4. Return the syrup and egg mixture to the saucepan. Cook over medium heat, whisking constantly, until the mixture thickens and starts to pull away from the sides of the pan.

5. Put the mixture in a clean container and refrigerate until firm.

6. Roll the cooled mixture into walnut-size balls and roll the balls in sugar.

7. If you want to be fancy, put the balls in frilly little paper cups for serving.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

they sound amazing! Have you made them? Did they turn out well?

thanks for a great puzzle!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haven't tried them yet, but I intend to. They sound REALLY good.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good puzzle, and the recipe sounds delicious! I have tons of little paper cups left from my clumsy attempt at making chocolates, now I know what I can use them for.

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