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Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 883
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sam committed a crime, leaving behind no visible trace. A DNA sample from the crime scene led the police to Dan, Sam's identical twin brother who is a registered petty crook. They instantly suspect Dan, but never Sam. Explain.

For those who don't know, identical twins share the same DNA.
Yatin509 (Yatin509)
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Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 10:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any sign of difference the police knew because he was a registered petty crook?

Was Dan in jail?
Yatin509 (Yatin509)
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Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 10:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ahh sorry forget the post i got the question wrong
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3503
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the crime theft? burglary? murder? assault? A sex crime?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Post Number: 828
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the police know about the existence of Sam?
Was Dan at the place where the crime happened? Was he involved in the crime?
Were there witnesses?
Was the crime recorded on video?
Did the police confuse Dan with Sam?
Relevant which crime(s) Dan was convicted of before?
Dbw (Dbw)
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Username: Dbw

Post Number: 50
Registered: 6-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they separated at birth and unaware of each other's existence? Or at least, was Dan unaware of Sam's existence?

So even though Dan was innocent he did not know he had an identical twin and could not explain to the police how his DNA ended up at the crime scene?

Perhaps Sam was aware of Dan's existence and is framing him, or perhaps Sam just got really lucky.
Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 884
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any sign of difference the police knew because he was a registered petty crook? No

Was Dan in jail? Irr, assume no


ahh sorry forget the post i got the question wrong No problem. Answered them anyway in case someone else is interested in that.


Was the crime theft? burglary? murder? assault? A sex crime? Irr


Did the police know about the existence of Sam? Yes...
Was Dan at the place where the crime happened? No
Was he involved in the crime? No
Were there witnesses? No
Was the crime recorded on video? No
Did the police confuse Dan with Sam? No
Relevant which crime(s) Dan was convicted of before? No


Were they separated at birth and unaware of each other's existence? Or at least, was Dan unaware of Sam's existence? No to both, but...

So even though Dan was innocent he did not know he had an identical twin and could not explain to the police how his DNA ended up at the crime scene? Yes

Perhaps Sam was aware of Dan's existence and is framing him, or perhaps Sam just got really lucky. No
Dbw (Dbw)
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Username: Dbw

Post Number: 54
Registered: 6-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 7:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wait, you said no to "Dan was unaware of Sam's existence" but yes to "Dan...did not know he had an identical twin."

???
Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 885
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wait, you said no to "Dan was unaware of Sam's existence" but yes to "Dan...did not know he had an identical twin." Yes, exactly. Explore.
Dbw (Dbw)
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Username: Dbw

Post Number: 55
Registered: 6-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Dan knew Sam existed, but did not realize that Sam was his identical twin?

Had the brothers ever met? Did they know each other well? Did Dan know he was related to Sam?

Does Sam know of Dan's existence?

Did Sam intend for Dan to take the fall for him?

Is one of the brothers somehow impaired? Are they both still alive? Are the both HAMs?
Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 886
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Dan knew Sam existed, but did not realize that Sam was his identical twin? Yes

Had the brothers ever met? Yes
Did they know each other well? Yes, but...
Did Dan know he was related to Sam? Yes

Does Sam know of Dan's existence? Yes

Did Sam intend for Dan to take the fall for him? No

Is one of the brothers somehow impaired? Yes
Are they both still alive? Yes
Are the both HAMs? Yes...
Dbw (Dbw)
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Username: Dbw

Post Number: 56
Registered: 6-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Dan the impaired one? Is it a physical infirmity? Is Sam impaired in any way too?

When the police came to accuse Dan of the crime, did they arrest him? Did they ask him if he did it? Did Dan proclaim his innocence? Did the police explain the DNA evidence to him?

Is Dan aware that Sam is his brother, but not that they are identical twins? Is it because Dan is blind? Mentally disabled?
Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 887
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Dan the impaired one? No
Is it a physical Yes infirmity? No
Is Sam impaired in any way too? Yes

When the police came to accuse Dan of the crime, did they arrest him?
Did they ask him if he did it?
Did Dan proclaim his innocence?
Did the police explain the DNA evidence to him?
Irr to all

Is Dan aware that Sam is his brother, No but not that they are identical twins? So no as well
Is it because Dan is blind? No
Mentally disabled? No
Dbw (Dbw)
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Username: Dbw

Post Number: 59
Registered: 6-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they conjoined twins? Or were they ever?

Is one or both of them missing an arm? Leg? Other body part. Any other evidence found at the crime scene? Fingerprints? Footprints?
Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 889
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they conjoined twins? Or were they ever? No to both

Is one This or both of them missing an arm? No
Leg? No
Other body part. Yes
Any other evidence found at the crime scene? No
Fingerprints? Footprints? So no to those
Dbw (Dbw)
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Username: Dbw

Post Number: 60
Registered: 6-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm so confused... so they're both impaired but only one is missing a body part? So they each have an impairment but they are different impairments?

Is Dan the one missing a body part?
Is Sam the one missing a body part?

Is the missing body part a finger? Toe? Ear? Eye? Internal organ? Hand? Foot?

Was the missing body part missing at birth? Or did he lose it later? If so, was he an adult when he lost the body part? Was it lost in an accident? Was it removed surgically? Was it lost due to disease?
Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 890
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm so confused... so they're both impaired but only one is missing a body part?
So they each have an impairment but they are different impairments?
No, only Sam is impaired and only he is missing a body part.

Is Dan the one missing a body part?
Is Sam the one missing a body part? This

Is the missing body part a finger? Toe? Ear? Eye? Internal organ? Hand? Foot? No to all

Was the missing body part missing at birth? No
Or did he lose it later? Yes
If so, was he an adult when he lost the body part? No
Was it lost in an accident? Yope - it was damaged in an accident and then removed
Was it removed surgically? Yes
Was it lost due to disease? No
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 1613
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it his nose? tongue? something else in his face? genitalia?
Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 892
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it his nose?
tongue?
something else in his face?
genitalia? This
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 1614
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he lose his penis as a young child? And was then raised as a girl?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 1615
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And then the DNA test showed it was male DNA so that Sam was never suspected because everyone thought he was a she?
Dbw (Dbw)
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Username: Dbw

Post Number: 62
Registered: 6-2011
Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 2:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think Doriana probably has it. Sam and Dan were identical twin brothers, but Sam's "junk" was injured in an accident (ouch) and after surgical intervention he was raised as a girl. Dan believes Sam[antha] is his fraternal twin sister, so he thinks the DNA must be his even though he didn't commit the crime.

...question mark?

Is Sam going to come clean?
Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 893
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he lose his penis as a young child? Yes
And was then raised as a girl? Yes

And then the DNA test showed it was male DNA so that Sam was never suspected because everyone thought he was a she? And yes
Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 894
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think Doriana probably has it. Sam and Dan were identical twin brothers, but Sam's "junk" was injured in an accident (ouch) and after surgical intervention he was raised as a girl. Dan believes Sam[antha] is his fraternal twin sister, so he thinks the DNA must be his even though he didn't commit the crime.

...question mark? Exactly. Sorry for seemingly having skipped your question, I had worked on the you-know-what before answering Doriana's question :-)

Is Sam going to come clean? If (s)he confesses? Irr, but let's assume (s)he does and things will get really messy...
Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 895
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 2:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

******* SPOILER *******

As babies, Sam and Dan underwent circumcision surgery, but in the process, Sam's genital was damaged beyond any chance of healing due to malpractice. Instead of having his injury treated, their parents decided to have his penis fully removed and to raise him as a girl, including giving him estrogen (telling him they were vitamins) by the time he was supposed to hit puberty. Sam developed the looks of a female and neither he nor Dan were ever told that he was in fact male and thus Dan never knew that Sam was his twin brother.

The police found Sam's DNA where he eventually committed the crime and matched it to Dan, who, due to his criminal career, already had a record in their DNA database. The police did find out about Sam's existance, but since the DNA was that of a male and neither of the involved persons ever questioned Sam's femaleness (why should they?), the police assumed that Dan must have been the culprit.


This puzzle was inspired by the the Law and Order: SVU episode "Identity", which, in turn, as I learned in a Google search, was inspired by the John/Joan case.

Great work, everybody! I hadn't expected this puzzle to be solved this quickly :-)
Dbw (Dbw)
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Username: Dbw

Post Number: 64
Registered: 6-2011
Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 2:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sad story :-(

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