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Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Post Number: 1036
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Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something relatively simple to get myself back into the swing of things...early $poilers, please e-mail me here (remove spam blockers first).




Title: Motivation

Difficulty: Easy

Type: Based on a joke

Story:
But he did!

To Solve:
What did he do? Why and how did he do it?

Specialized Knowledge needed:
None needed

Good luck!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1699
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Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He = HAM?
Alive?

Time period relevant?
Nowish?
Country relevant?
Specific location relevant? (as in house, park, bar, etc.)

Any other relevant parties here?
One? More than one?

While based on a joke, could this happen in real life?

Is his profession relevant?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Post Number: 1037
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Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica

He = HAM? Yes
Alive? Yes

Time period relevant? Not really...
Nowish? ...but the joke on which this puzzle was based is set in present times.
Country relevant? No, but as far as I know this joke originated in America.
Specific location relevant? (as in house, park, bar, etc.) Yes

Any other relevant parties here? Yes
One? This one -- and he too is a HAM. More than one? No

While based on a joke, could this happen in real life? Possible, but unlikely.

Is his profession relevant? No
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that both are HAMs? Would it not work - or not be funny - if one or both were HAFs?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solitiare

Is it relevant that both are HAMs? No, though this joke probably wouldn't work with babies, toddlers, and young children Would it not work - or not be funny - if one or both were HAFs? See previous answer.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The specific location - a private residence? shop? mall? restaurant? bar? hotel? office? school? some kind of vehicle? park?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana

The specific location - a private residence? shop? mall? restaurant? bar? hotel? office? school? some kind of vehicle? park? No to all
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1335
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

outdoors? a church? a public building? sports or leisure centre? museum? library?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 5:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez

outdoors? Yes a church? a public building? sports or leisure centre? museum? library? No to the rest, though church is getting close to the right forest.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A religious building? A building at all? A shrine? Cemetery/graveyard? Synagogue? Mosque? Temple?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

A religious building? A building at all? A shrine? Cemetery/graveyard? This one Synagogue? Mosque? Temple?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he find a dead body in the cemetery? Was he a cop?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 8:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he see something relevant?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Did he find a dead body in the cemetery? Was he a cop? Which "he" were you referring to? Remember that there are two relevant HAMs to the puzzle. That said, the answer to "No" to both questions for both HAMs.

On a totally unrelated note, could you please e-mail me what you saved from my limbo'ed puzzle? If you no longer have it, I'll just start anew.

Shez

did he see something relevant? Once again, which "he" are you referring to? That said, the answer is still "No" to this question for both HAMs.

To avoid confusion, let's call the HAM referenced in the puzzle statement John, and the other relevant HAM Fred. Now then...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 8:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so John went to the cemetery? did he go there to meet someone? to look at something? to look for something?

to hide?

time of day relevant?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Like I said in the chat, it's on my computer...which I won't have until tomorrow night. I will email it later this weekend.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2011 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sent.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2011 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Make that "attempted to send." I got an email saying the message never sent and that your email address does not exist. Any idea why?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2011 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez

so John went to the cemetery? Yes did he go there to meet someone? to look at something? to look for something? No to the rest.

to hide? No, but good thinking.

time of day relevant? Yes, good question.

Balin

Make that "attempted to send." I got an email saying the message never sent and that your email address does not exist. Any idea why? Most likely because that account doesn't exist anymore. Please try sending an e-mail to the link I posted at the top of this thread. Don't forget to remove the spam blockers.

And thanks very much for doing this for me. Appreciate it.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 5:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I tried sending it but it got bounced back again. How do I remove the spam blockers? Or, could you email me so I can make sure I've got the right address?

Time of day -- morning? Noon? Afternoon? Night? Or is the specific hour/minute relevant?

Was Fred in the cemetery? Did Fred know John was going to the cemetery?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 7:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I tried sending it but it got bounced back again. How do I remove the spam blockers? Or, could you email me so I can make sure I've got the right address? E-mail sent to you.

Time of day -- morning? Noon? Afternoon? Night? This one Or is the specific hour/minute relevant?

Was Fred in the cemetery? Yes Did Fred know John was going to the cemetery? No, and a little bit of a FA here.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 9:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did John go there to sleep? did he just end up there by mistake?

was he just wandering through on his way to somewhere else?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sent...finally.

Did Fred work in the cemetery?
Random thought: Is Fred alive? If not, is he buried in the cemetery?
Ostap (Ostap)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did John and Fred go to the cemetery together?
Did they meet there?
Did they meet at all?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez

did John go there to sleep? No did he just end up there by mistake? No

was he just wandering through on his way to somewhere else? Yes -- good question!

Balin

Sent...finally. And received...thank you very much!! :-)

Did Fred work in the cemetery? No
Random thought: Is Fred alive? Yes If not, is he buried in the cemetery? No, but good thinking.

Ostap

Did John and Fred go to the cemetery together? No
Did they meet there? Yope
Did they meet at all? laeftr
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 1:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the date relevant? Is it Halloween?
Is it relevant where John was going? Coming from?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did John and Fred see each other for the first time in the cemetery? or at least did John see Fred for the first time?

did John get a shock?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Is the date relevant? No Is it Halloween? Irrelevant
Is it relevant where John was going? Not really. In the joke, John was going home, so we can use that to "flesh out" the story. But John could really be headed anywhere and it wouldn't have made a difference to the joke. Coming from? No. The joke doesn't even bother referencing where John came from.

Shez

did John and Fred see each other for the first time in the cemetery? Yope or at least did John see Fred for the first time? No

did John get a shock? Yes :-)
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I might know this - but my email was rejected - so I'll just say, did John fall into an open grave?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez

I think I might know this - but my email was rejected - so I'll just say, did John fall into an open grave? Did you strip the spamblockers from my e-mail address in the link up top? But to answer your question, the answer is yes.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks H. I'll back out now
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Fred already in the open grave? Sleeping? But John thought he was dead? And was even more shocked when he wasn't?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant re:

Fred alive or asleep in the grave?

Were they playing? were they playing a trick on somebody else?

Were they actors being filmed?

Such as actors on "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"?

Is it relevant whether they have / can use cell phones?

Fun stuff, Haenlomal!
Abc (Abc)
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 10:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this an instance of the philosophical principle where the mere uttering of a true statement changes its status to false?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 4:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez

thanks H. I'll back out now Sure thing! Thanks for dropping in.

Balin

Was Fred already in the open grave? Yes Sleeping? No But John thought he was dead? FA And was even more shocked when he wasn't? The same FA

Fionakelleghan

Is it relevant re:

Fred alive or asleep in the grave? Fred is alive, but not asleep, in the grave. These facts are relevant.

Were they playing? No were they playing a trick on somebody else? No

Were they actors being filmed? No, but good thinking

Such as actors on "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"? No

Is it relevant whether they have / can use cell phones? Irrelevant, though I suppose this situation would be much more unlikely to occur if they had access to cell phones.

Fun stuff, Haenlomal! Glad you approve.

Abc

Hello. Long time no see, Torgeir.

Was this an instance of the philosophical principle where the mere uttering of a true statement changes its status to false? No, nothing like this -- remember that this puzzle is based on a joke!}
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Fred fallen into the open grave? Was Fred alive?
Did Fred cause John's fall? Directly? Indirectly?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Had Fred fallen into the open grave? Yes Was Fred alive? Yes
Did Fred cause John's fall? No Directly? No Indirectly? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Fred still in the grave when John fell in?
Did Fred fall in first?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Augghh! We're having a lightning storm here in Miami and I lost all the questions I had typed, before I could post them. Won't make THAT mistake again.

OK, Haen, Fred is in the grave but he does not work there. Is he digging? If he's digging, is it for his own, loike, moon-lighting efforts to find something?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John is strolling through the cemetery, not expecting to have any adventures?

Are his night-strolling thoughts important?

Or are his thoughts more important when he encounters Fred?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do Fred and John speak?

Is their conversation the crux of the riddle?

Do they decide to help each other in some weird graveyard task, or do they say the hell with it and go out for beer?

Is one of them trying to hide something from the other?

You said, earlier, no cops: but was there anything in the business from slightly shady to heinous felony?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 8:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Your title "Motivation" is intriguing.

Did Fred arrive at the graveyard with motivation?

When John came along, was the motivation out in the open for anyone to see, or was one man or the other trying to conceal any reason(s) for his motivation?

You said it's night time, correct?
Late evening?
Moon rising?
Full midnight?
Early hours of the morning?
Any relevent?
Abc (Abc)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And hello to you, too!

Was this an instance of the philosophical principle where the mere uttering of a true statement changes its status to false? No, nothing like this -- remember that this puzzle is based on a joke!

I was well aware of that. But many jokes are based on such principles. Perhaps you could read the question again and think it over whether it could have some merit?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Was Fred still in the grave when John fell in? Yes
Did Fred fall in first? Yes

Fionakelleghan...several times =P
Augghh! We're having a lightning storm here in Miami and I lost all the questions I had typed, before I could post them. Won't make THAT mistake again. Sorry to hear that...hope you didn't have to do too much re-typing.

OK, Haen, Fred is in the grave but he does not work there. Is he digging? No If he's digging, is it for his own, loike, moon-lighting efforts to find something? No

John is strolling through the cemetery, not expecting to have any adventures? I guess you can put it that way, yes.

Are his night-strolling thoughts important? No

Or are his thoughts more important when he encounters Fred? No...what John's thinking is irrelevant.

Do Fred and John speak? Yope

Is their conversation the crux of the riddle? It's certainly a relevant and important part of the joke, but keep in mind my answer to your previous question!

Do they decide to help each other in some weird graveyard task, or do they say the hell with it and go out for beer? No, nothing like this.

Is one of them trying to hide something from the other? No

You said, earlier, no cops: but was there anything in the business from slightly shady to heinous felony? No

Your title "Motivation" is intriguing. As usual, my puzzle titles have some degree of relevance to the actual puzzle itself. Exactly how high the degree of relevance is is something for the rest of you to discover. =)

Did Fred arrive at the graveyard with motivation? No

When John came along, was the motivation out in the open for anyone to see, or was one man or the other trying to conceal any reason(s) for his motivation? FA

You said it's night time, correct? Yes
Late evening?
Moon rising?
Full midnight?
Early hours of the morning?
Any relevent? Let's just say it dark enough so that objects and people are not readily visible.

Abc

And hello to you, too!

Was this an instance of the philosophical principle where the mere uttering of a true statement changes its status to false? No, nothing like this -- remember that this puzzle is based on a joke!

I was well aware of that. But many jokes are based on such principles. Perhaps you could read the question again and think it over whether it could have some merit? Ah. I see what you mean. Once you put it this way, I suppose the answer is yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how long they were in the grave? Did either Fred or John sleep in the grave? If so, which?
Did someone start filling in the grave?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 4:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can you tell us the time in seconds or minutes between when Fred fell in and when John fell in?

Since it's based on a joke, are we looking for an example of:

physical humor?
punning?
(Shakespearian puns?)
absurdist humor? --> (I can clarify if necess.)

Is the crux of the joke that they both fell into the open hole?

Is the crux what they both say after falling in? or colliding?

Is it that they recognize each other?
don't recognize each other?

Is it perfectly okay with their community that they both wind up in the same place, by accident, on a dark night?
- In other words, frex, they aren't going to get in trouble if they get home late to their wives, or be late getting to work?

(That kind of thing. And that kind of thing was popular during vaudeville days, so maybe too ancient for this puzzle.)



(I've wavered about saying this next parenthetical bit for several minutes. But because I want to praise you, I want shyly to mention that I'm considered an expert on humor in the science fiction and fantasy fields. Which means a broad reading background on humor in general.

I am certainly not saying this to show off.

And, er, I certainly kinda sorta say it in case you want to look on Amazon to glance over my last book.

Sorry, Haen, my point was: you have stumped a master! So, good onya, mate! Really enjoying this.)
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did anyone of them assume that the other is dead?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Is it relevant how long they were in the grave? Yes Did either Fred or John sleep in the grave? No If so, which?
Did someone start filling in the grave? No

Fionakelleghan

Can you tell us the time in seconds or minutes between when Fred fell in and when John fell in? The source doesn't say...but I'd imagine it being the neighbourhood of a half-hour to an hour. That said, it definitely can't be a few seconds or a few minutes.

Since it's based on a joke, are we looking for an example of:

physical humor?
punning?
(Shakespearian puns?)
absurdist humor? --> (I can clarify if necess.) None of these.

Is the crux of the joke that they both fell into the open hole? They both did fall into the hole, but that's not the crux of the joke.

Is the crux what they both say after falling in? Well, one of them, at any rate or colliding? They did not collide

Is it that they recognize each other?
don't recognize each other? Fred and John don't know each other, if that's what you were asking.

Is it perfectly okay with their community that they both wind up in the same place, by accident, on a dark night?
- In other words, frex, they aren't going to get in trouble if they get home late to their wives, or be late getting to work? LOL...nothing like this, I'm afraid, but that would have been funny!

(That kind of thing. And that kind of thing was popular during vaudeville days, so maybe too ancient for this puzzle.)



(I've wavered about saying this next parenthetical bit for several minutes. But because I want to praise you, I want shyly to mention that I'm considered an expert on humor in the science fiction and fantasy fields. Which means a broad reading background on humor in general.

I am certainly not saying this to show off.

And, er, I certainly kinda sorta say it in case you want to look on Amazon to glance over my last book.

Sorry, Haen, my point was: you have stumped a master! So, good onya, mate! Really enjoying this.) Glad you enjoy it. Do you write under the name "Fiona Kelleghan", or some other pen name? I'm an aspiring writer in the sci-fi/fantasy genre myself, but just can't seem to find the time to get myself published...

Redwine

Did anyone of them assume that the other is dead? YES -- good question!!

Some good questions have been posed in the last few posts...shouldn't be too long now.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did John think Fred was dead? The other way round?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Did John think Fred was dead? Yes The other way round? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, August 19, 2011 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did John fall on Fred? Did Fred react to John's fall? But John thought Fred was dead? Which scared the dickens out of John?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Friday, August 19, 2011 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Did John fall on Fred? No Did Fred react to John's fall? Yope But John thought Fred was dead? Yes Which scared the dickens out of John? Yes

I should add here that it seems that you may be labouring under a FA.
Danielvs (Danielvs)
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Fred standing when John fell? Neither Fred or John died after falling, right?
Was Fred doing anything illegal inside the grave?
Did John think Fred was a zombie/living dead? Because Fred was dressed as such (going to a fantasy party, perhaps)?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What a great Halloween-ish puzzle this is!

And I know a lot of jokes, most of which are unsuited to polite friendship, but I have no idea where we're going here.

Balin, you seem to be on the right track, despite the "FA" - and Danielvs, you've started me thinking on a different track.

Our title is "Motivation." Haenlomal, I'd like to return to that, and ask:

Does the motivation reside in John? In Fred?

Or in someone who knows them?

Is the motivation created (in John's mind or in Fred's mind) by this bizarre situation?

Is the motivation simply to get out of this problem? Or does the motivation occur after Fred and John have realized what's happened?

Do both John and Fred come out of this situation alive?

Should we ask about any conversation they might have? I did kinda ask that earlier - now I'm asking whether we should ask for details of their talk.

Should we ask whether some extra ingredient entered the story - such as a dog, a newspaper deliverer, a crew of diggers for a new grave?

I'm mystified, and loving it.

Fiona

PS: Haenlomal, I would love to talk with you about writing SF & F & Horror, or whatever you like. We should take this elsewhere - but I've been having trouble with my AOL account. I'll find a way to fix it, though, or we can talk in a chat list. Cheers, mate!
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the statement "But he did" made by John? by Fred? while being in the grave? afterwards, while telling this story to somebody else?
Would it help to find out what Fred did do in the grave? Did he enter the grave on purpose? Did he fall in?
Was he sleeping there? but woke up when John fell upon him?
Was he there sitting? drinking? digging out something? hiding something? struggling to get out?
Was Fred somehow involved in digging out the grave? was it a fresh grave? did Fred know who was going to be buried there?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Danielvs

Was Fred standing when John fell? The joke never explicitly states this, but probably not Neither Fred or John died after falling, right? Yes
Was Fred doing anything illegal inside the grave? No
Did John think Fred was a zombie/living dead? The joke doesn't explicitly state what John was thinking, but this is definitely a possibility Because Fred was dressed as such (going to a fantasy party, perhaps)? No

Fionakelleghan

What a great Halloween-ish puzzle this is!

And I know a lot of jokes, most of which are unsuited to polite friendship, but I have no idea where we're going here.

Balin, you seem to be on the right track, despite the "FA" - and Danielvs, you've started me thinking on a different track.

Our title is "Motivation." Haenlomal, I'd like to return to that, and ask:

Does the motivation reside in John? YES -- good question! In Fred? NO -- equally good question!

Or in someone who knows them? No other parties are relevant to this puzzle other than Fred and John.

Is the motivation created (in John's mind or in Fred's mind) by this bizarre situation? John's mind -- and figuring out what caused John's motivation and Fred's lack of motivation is the heart of this puzzle. Do this, and this puzzle is over.

Is the motivation simply to get out of this problem? Yes'ish Or does the motivation occur after Fred and John have realized what's happened? A little bit of a FA here...

Do both John and Fred come out of this situation alive? Yes

Should we ask about any conversation they might have? Yes, though "conversation" may not be all that accurate... I did kinda ask that earlier - now I'm asking whether we should ask for details of their talk. That would be a very good idea.

Should we ask whether some extra ingredient entered the story - such as a dog, a newspaper deliverer, a crew of diggers for a new grave? No -- no one else is relevant.

I'm mystified, and loving it. Glad you approve.

Fiona

PS: Haenlomal, I would love to talk with you about writing SF & F & Horror, or whatever you like. We should take this elsewhere - but I've been having trouble with my AOL account. I'll find a way to fix it, though, or we can talk in a chat list. Cheers, mate! Well, whenever you fix your e-mail, please drop me a line. You can find my e-mail address in my profile.

Sundowner

It is good to see you again, Jens.

Is the statement "But he did" made by John? by Fred? while being in the grave? afterwards, while telling this story to somebody else? Neither -- this statement would have been made by the narrator after the events of the joke/puzzle. Also recall that the "he" in the puzzle statement refers to John -- a fact that was uncovered quite early in this puzzle.
Would it help to find out what Fred did do in the grave? Yes Did he enter the grave on purpose? NO -- good question! Did he fall in? YES!
Was he sleeping there? Well, he was resting, at any rate but woke up when John fell upon him? Well, John did not fall on top of him, but most assuredly Fred noticed it when John fell in.
Was he there sitting? drinking? digging out something? hiding something? struggling to get out? I assume you are still referring to Fred. In that case, his actions depend on the time -- recall that he'd have been in the grave for some time when John fell in. At the time of John's fall, though, I imagine Fred would've been sitting, though the joke never explicitly mentions this.
Was Fred somehow involved in digging out the grave? No was it a fresh grave? Yes did Fred know who was going to be buried there? Seeing that Fred didn't know about the grave prior to his fall, I'd guess no.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did John think that Fred was dead? Did Fred say anything to John? Vice versa?
Mimino (Mimino)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant how long Fred was in the grave? less than one hour? less than 6 hours? less than one day? more?
Did he ever try to get out during this time?
Was he hiding in the grave?
Did Fred do anything else relevant besides sitting when John fell in? did he smoke?
Did John in any way interact with Fred? say something to him? touch him? hit him?
John's profession relevant? Did he try to sell Fred a life insurance?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Mimino, love your questions!)

Okay, John fell on Fred, or they collided, and ... maybe any conversation had to do with them yelling at each other (?).

This feels SO much like an Irish joke.

Well, hey! If I'm right, then does the story go ... um...

(1) John thought he would visit his father's grave,

or

(2) John promised someone to visit someone's grave,

or

(3) John was motivated for some f'n reason to wander directly over to that part of the cemetery,

and

(4) he certainly did not want to discover someone alive there...

Here I am, with the great Irish name Fiona Kelleghan, and I am baffled. (Hey, I'm a humor scholar; not a humor writer!)

Okay... did John want to visit his father's grave, was a bit drunk, wanted to apologize for being a bad son, and then said, "Whoa bejasus, now you're coming back up to yell at me again?"

Or something similar?

Haenlomal, I can't wait to read your Solution to this.

I think we should all agree, though, that this is definitely a vivid and Halloween-perfect story!

Cheers all....
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Did John think that Fred was dead? Yes, but... Did Fred say anything to John? Yes Vice versa? No

Mimino

Relevant how long Fred was in the grave? less than one hour? less than 6 hours? less than one day? more? As previously discovered, the joke never specified the exact time Fred was in the grave. However, given the events in the joke, I'd say Fred was in the grave for at least a half-hour before John joined him.
Did he ever try to get out during this time? Yes
Was he hiding in the grave? No
Did Fred do anything else relevant besides sitting when John fell in? No did he smoke? No
Did John in any way interact with Fred? No say something to him? No touch him? No hit him? No
John's profession relevant? No Did he try to sell Fred a life insurance? Haha...no, but good question.

Fionakelleghan

(Mimino, love your questions!)

Okay, John fell on Fred, or they collided, and ... maybe any conversation had to do with them yelling at each other (?). Actually, John did NOT fall on Fred, and John indeed never spoke to Fred. However, as Balin discovered, Fred did say something relevant to John.

This feels SO much like an Irish joke. I'm not sure if this is an Irish joke or not, but it's a good one...at least, in my humble opinion. :-)

Well, hey! If I'm right, then does the story go ... um...

(1) John thought he would visit his father's grave,

or

(2) John promised someone to visit someone's grave,

or

(3) John was motivated for some f'n reason to wander directly over to that part of the cemetery,

and

(4) he certainly did not want to discover someone alive there...

Here I am, with the great Irish name Fiona Kelleghan, and I am baffled. (Hey, I'm a humor scholar; not a humor writer!)

Okay... did John want to visit his father's grave, was a bit drunk, wanted to apologize for being a bad son, and then said, "Whoa bejasus, now you're coming back up to yell at me again?"

Or something similar? Sorry, nothing like that.

Haenlomal, I can't wait to read your Solution to this.

I think we should all agree, though, that this is definitely a vivid and Halloween-perfect story!

Cheers all....
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a suspicion that I've heard this story, emailed.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Fred talk to John immediately after John fell in? Did he greet John? Did he explain why he is in the grave?
Did Fred mistake John for somebody else?
Did John respond in any way to what Fred said? by doing something?
Does the "But he did" refer to something John actually did? and Fred was only talking about?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 1:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk

I have a suspicion that I've heard this story, emailed. E-mail checked, and yes, that is the correct solution. Well done!

Sundowner

Did Fred talk to John immediately after John fell in? No, good question Did he greet John? So no to this as well Did he explain why he is in the grave? And no to this as well
Did Fred mistake John for somebody else? Irrelevant
Did John respond in any way to what Fred said? Yes by doing something? Yes
Does the "But he did" refer to something John actually did? Yes and Fred was only talking about? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 2:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You really should have known that by calling this "relatively simple" it would take this long...

Was Fred knocked out by John's fall?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Fred say something along the lines "you will not get away from here"?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

You really should have known that by calling this "relatively simple" it would take this long... You (collectively speaking) actually have almost all the information needed to solve this puzzle. It's just that people seem to be dancing around the solution...

Was Fred knocked out by John's fall? As indicated before, John did not fall on Fred. As a matter of fact, John did not even touch Fred when he fell down into the grave.

Redwine

Did Fred say something along the lines "you will not get away from here"? YES! Good question.

Can someone now put everything together and put this puzzle out of its misery? :-)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 3:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Fred been in the grave for a long time? Did he tell John he wasn't likely to get out either?
Did this scare the bejeezus out of John? Did he scramble out of the grave from fear (the "But he did!" of the statement)?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Had Fred been in the grave for a long time? Did he tell John he wasn't likely to get out either?
Did this scare the bejeezus out of John? Did he scramble out of the grave from fear (the "But he did!" of the statement)?

This is more than close enough to justify a...

******* SPOILER *******

I'll simply quote the joke verbatim and let it speak for itself.

==========

Motivation

There was a young man who took a short cut home late one night through the cemetery. And he fell in an open grave. He called, he tried to climb. To no avail. There was no one around to hear his cries or lend a hand. So he settled down for the night in a corner of the darkened grave to wait for morning.

A little while later another person came along the same route through the cemetery, taking the same short cut and fell in the same grave. He started clawing and shouting and trying to get out just as the first had done. Suddenly, the second fellow heard a voice come out of the dark corner of the grave saying, “You can’t get out of here.”

But he did!

==========

Thanks to all who played, and special mention to Balin, who put in most of the work! If you should ever find yourself stuck in an open grave, may you receive, urm, motivation in a better form than this poor fellow did!

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