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Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 6:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She wanted sympathy and attention and compassion. What she got was a lawsuit.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 7:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she get any of the other things? Did she do anything illegal? Stupid? Deceptive? Was she sued by a person? Several? A company? Did she want people to believe she was a victim? Relevant who she wanted the attention etc. from? Or just people in general?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Random shot in the dark: Is Munchausen's by proxy relevant?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Sympathy for the Devil" is a song, isn't it? (I don't know the song, I've only heard of it in one of those "what does 'American Pie' really mean" things) Is that at all relevant?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 1:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:

Did she get any of the other things? Yes

Did she do anything illegal? In some places, yes; but the legality is still under consideration (it's quite a new situation.)

Stupid? DYOD, is that the correct term? Or YMMV.

Deceptive? Yes

Was she sued by a person? Several? A company? I am conflating a few situations here, though focusing on one HAF; I think several and company are most accurate.

Did she want people to believe she was a victim? Yes

Relevant who she wanted the attention etc. from? Yes

Or just people in general? This too, but the attention of a certain class of people is most accurate.
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:

Random shot in the dark: Is Munchausen's by proxy relevant? You have an excellent flashlight there in the dark! Relevant, yes, but not precisely what I'm looking for.
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 1:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kaylee Kitteh:

"Sympathy for the Devil" is a song, isn't it? (I don't know the song, I've only heard of it in one of those "what does 'American Pie' really mean" things) Is that at all relevant?

Irrelevant, except I thought it a cute title for the thread. Kittehs no needz download 4 lyricz.
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 1:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk, still there?

I went again to one website which discusses a lawsuit brought about by our HAF. However, I'm positive that there have been more than one lawsuits in the other direction.

I'll go over my readings again.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 1:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fiona kitteh iz dere? iz gud dai in florida?

iz there cheezburgur or kittehz involved? iz haz tu ask =D
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 3:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fiona iz here, iz gud dai, thkz!

No, no cheezburgur or kittehz - unless iz come a new Very Weird case soon.

Well, cheezburgur might take tiny, molecule-sized part, but not yet reported in newzpaperz.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she want to appear a victim of: discrimination? Injury? Violence? Abuse? Was she actually a victim? Did she sue anyone? Is a specific company involved? If so, would it help to know which company it is?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2011 - 5:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk and Vesica!:

Did she want to appear a victim of:
discrimination? No

Injury? Violence? Abuse? Keeping in mind that I am conflating 2 or 3 cases (which overlap and which are all similar in the most important way), she was complaining of many physical problems and perhaps complained of all of those that Galfisk listed. To clarify: statistically speaking, nearly everyone in this situation has claimed harm / injury in at least one of those 3 categories.

Was she actually a victim? Ahh. Now we're zeroing in.

She has seen many doctors, but usually they are anywhere from "unsure" to "baffled" about her case, and they have given her many diagnoses.

Sometimes she obeys the doctor and goes into hospital. Sometimes she finds another doctor and goes into another hospital.

Since I don't know her / them, I am relying on experts (doctors who have published in peer-reviewed journals) in this particular field, and they say that, for the most part, she claims to be or is "likely" to "very likely" a victim of something (let's say "family-related") that she considered to be harmful, and considers still to be harmful, as she grew to adulthood.


Did she sue anyone? I know of one case in which she sued someone or, rather, someones. There may be more cases.

Is a specific company involved? If so, would it help to know which company it is? In this particular case, yes! And I'll go look at my notes again, so I won't get it wrong. But I'll give you a broad hint: it's in the area of communications.

GREAT questions! You and Vesica, together, have put together 99% of the puzzle.

The one remaining question is: why was she involved in a lawsuit?

After looking at my notes, I'll tell you the company involved in the lawsuit, if you like.

I'm super proud of you folks! I thought this would be a hard puzzle, but I'm happy to join a group who love the scientific method as much as I do. Back soon!
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2011 - 7:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, *major hints* here without puzzle solution.



"Ashley, a 31-year-old woman, was indicted in Arizona ... Before trial, Ashley pled no contest to two counts of..."


What, did you expect me to spoil it here? lol - of course you can google those phrases and you'll have the answer.

I have a few more examples


Oh, wow! interrupting,
sorry but there are two young opossums in my back yard and I HAVE to go watch them!

Sorry to be silly about the wildlife, but I'm a city girl, and I love them all, so I have to run! more clues soon, I promise
Fiona
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2011 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she complaining that her problems are caused by: high tension power lines? Mobile towers? Radar? Other source of electromagnetic radiation? Windmills? Pollution? Noise?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2011 - 9:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk wrote:

Is she complaining that her problems are caused by: high tension power lines? Mobile towers? Radar? Other source of electromagnetic radiation? Windmills? Pollution? Noise?

Wow, lots of great ideas!

And, uh, no, sorry...

Well, okay, Fiona, give 'em a chance!

It would not surprise me if she chose any of those as an "aggravating problem" - it's certainly possible. Most doctors have not contributed much about this problem in the medical literature, because they fail in the diagnoses or think simply "it's all in her mind." The exception (in the medical/psychiatric world), of course, is a handful of folks who have chosen this problem as their field of study.

And [HINT] don't worry about external sources or outdoor situations.

This specific situation is specifically domestic.

Oh, and I am afraid that I made Vesica swerve away, when I wrote that "Munchausen's by proxy" was merely "relevant."

Vesica, you deserve the win, although there is still one slight torque that changes your guess -I hope you see this!

All best,
Fiona
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2011 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did she have Muchausen's by proxy by proxy?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez wrote:

"did she have Muchausen's by proxy by proxy?"

(Fiona cracks up)

Okay, ALL of you deserve the win.

The term I was looking for is "Munchausen by Internet." Which is new-ish. See below.

The question of legality about the actions of these want-to-be-victim people -- it was chiefly about the way they selfishly over-used and abused the time and attention of doctors and nurses, sometimes demanding bullshit surgical attentions, operations, and so on.

I suppose anyone who has seen "The Sixth Sense" has some knowledge of Munchausen By Proxy. (yecch!)

But more recently, these Munchausen folks don't have to make themselves or their kids seriously ill, or ill at all. They simply go to any of many websites where they can get attention for any medical disaster they can think up. Causing great anguish to many sympathetic people is probably the worst of their crimes, if you don't want to think about the dollars and man-hours and surgical operations.

For the best info, google Dr. Marc Feldman, who coined the term "Munchausen by Internet" and whose website has tons of info and links.

Thank you, all of you, for working at my little puzzle here.
Fiona
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know what Munchausen is, but not what Munchausen by proxy is. (And I haven't seen The Sixth Sense.)

Is that a $poyler?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Munchausen by Proxy is when a parent/caregiver (statistically, it's usually the mother/other female caregiver, according to Wikipedia) tells a medical professional that their child is ill when the child isn't, and coerces the child into going along with it.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually Kaylee, Munchausen by Proxy is usually much darker than that, with the caregiver actually harming the child to induce the illness (as it's sort of hard to get children to go along with it). People that have been given this diagnosis as part of their criminal trials have done all kinds of things, from putting household chemicals into children's food to actually unplugging or disrupting life support systems in the hospitals to make their children ďcodeĒ so that the doctors can rush in and revive them.

Oh, and I am afraid that I made Vesica swerve away, when I wrote that "Munchausen's by proxy" was merely "relevant."
Never fear, Fiona. You didnít scare me off. Work reared up and ate me alive so I wasnít around here much. I love*Love*LOVE psych-related puzzles and would have loved to puzzle this one out to the last detail. Stupid work with the stupid earning my living.

Awesome puzzle and I canít believe I didnít think of that. Iíve read quite a bit about the psychological analysis of people who announce to Facebook, Livejournal, WoW or wherever that they have cancer or some disease and give updates etc. for months and months and then it turns out they were lying about the whole thing. CRAZY (but fascinating).
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Iíve read quite a bit about the psychological analysis of people who announce to Facebook, Livejournal, WoW or wherever that they have cancer or some disease and give updates etc. for months and months and then it turns out they were lying about the whole thing. CRAZY (but fascinating).

Yes. I had a semi-personal experience with that, as I was mutual friends with a woman who did this, though I did not know her. Her pen name was "Lady Roisin", and she pretended to have cancer, then inserted her "husband", then "ex-husband", "Eli" into the mix. "Eli" then pronounced her dead after a time, but clever Facebook friends of hers, who knew Roisin's real name, noticed she still posted on her family's Facebook pages. "Eli" was no more than a "sock puppet", as the terminology goes. She also created a new identity for herself, but that didn't last long. The cleverness of Dawn Felagund, a moderator of Silmarillion Writer's Guild (SWG), ferreted her out on LJ. "Lady Roisin" broke a lot of my friends' hearts; they'd sincerely worried for her, and mourned her when they thought she was dead. It was a betrayal, plain and simple, and I hope that wherever she is now, she can feel sorry for what she did, someday.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I should clarify, I *am* friends with a woman who did this, though of course they are no longer friends with HER. And there was a lot of division between people who believed her story and people who didn't. Luckily, I didn't know about all this until after it blew wide open - I had friends on both sides of the break and didn't even know why they'd cooled toward each other. Luckily, the rift is healing.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Argh. Friends with people who WERE friends with a woman who did this. Sorry for the triple post. I am typoing SO badly.)
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I saw a documentary about these people. The irony is that of course they really are sick to do such a terrible thing - but far from getting support and sympathy for their real illness they get reviled. Sorry, I almost talked myself into feeling sorry for them!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(FYI for the mods, SPOILER)
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 6:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin, thanks for that last note to the Mods - and, wow, sorry that I've been away for a whole week!

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