[Balin] ...on the water Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - June 2012 » [Balin] ...on the water « Previous Next »

Author Message
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17220
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2012 - 3:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Inspired by Ixoye's card trick puzzle

There is a 2-person card "game" I like to play called "Smoke and Fire" that usually results in the other person being slightly perturbed. Why?

No Googling (etc) please
Kyeannpepper (Kyeannpepper)
New member
Username: Kyeannpepper

Post Number: 851
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2012 - 6:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I play a 2-person number 'game' that usually leaves the other person being slightly perturbed as I win again...and again...and again. Once I had about 20 college students trying to figure out how a 9-year-old was beating them all with ease xD.

Does the "game" perturb them because you win every time? Because it just plain creeps them out for some other reason?

Does the "game" involve the whole deck? If not, only the face cards? Only the non-face cards? Some other group of cards?

Could anyone play Smoke and Fire?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member
Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 5002
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2012 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an actual game with a winner and a loser? Could it be described as something else, like a magic trick?

By perturbed do you mean annoyed? Surprised? Curious? Would Commander Spock be perturbed by this game?

Were you perturbed when you first encountered this game?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17222
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2012 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I play a 2-person number 'game' that usually leaves the other person being slightly perturbed as I win again...and again...and again. Once I had about 20 college students trying to figure out how a 9-year-old was beating them all with ease xD. Nice... that sounds like fun =)

Does the "game" perturb them because you win every time? No Because it just plain creeps them out No for some other reason? Yes

Does the "game" involve the whole deck? Yes If not, only the face cards? Only the non-face cards? Some other group of cards?

Could anyone play Smoke and Fire? Yes

Is it an actual game with a winner and a loser? No Could it be described as something else, Probably... like a magic trick? ...but not this.

By perturbed do you mean annoyed? This Surprised? Curious? Would Commander Spock be perturbed by this game? I don't know; I've never watched Star Trek. But my dad says:

"Well, he's unemotional, so he wouldn't be perturbed. However, he would consider it illogical to play this game, since its only purpose is for amusement and not challenging the mental capacities."


Were you perturbed when you first encountered this game? Somewhat, but I was more amused.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member
Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 1919
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Sunday, June 10, 2012 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could a blind person play Smoke and Fire without assistance or special accommodation? With assistance/accommodation? Same questions for a deaf person? Someone who is blind and deaf? A quadrapalegic? Someone who doesn't speak English (if the other player only speaks English/doesn't speak the same language)? Is "the whole deck" a standard 52-card deck? Do you include the 2 jokers? Could you play it with two half-decks consisting of only the red cards? Only the black cards? Only the hearts and the clubs? (Same question for the other 3 combinations of one red and one black suit)? Only the higher (number) half of the deck? Only the lower (number) half of the deck? Does it matter if the cards are from two different decks if all 52 cards are contained exactly once?

Could I play it if I took the queen of hearts out of 52 different sets and made it into one deck? Same question for the other 51 cards (if there's a difference).
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17225
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could a blind person play Smoke and Fire without assistance or special accommodation? No With assistance/accommodation? No Same questions for a deaf person? Yes (but not a deaf-mute) Someone who is blind and deaf? No A quadrapalegic? Yes Someone who doesn't speak English (if the other player only speaks English/doesn't speak the same language)? Probably not, because the game wouldn't work Is "the whole deck" a standard 52-card deck? Yes Do you include the 2 jokers? No Could you play it with two half-decks consisting of only the red cards? No Only the black cards? No Only the hearts and the clubs? Yes (Same question for the other 3 combinations of one red and one black suit)? Yes Only the higher (number) half of the deck? Yes Only the lower (number) half of the deck? Yes Does it matter if the cards are from two different decks if all 52 cards are contained exactly once? No

Could I play it if I took the queen of hearts out of 52 different sets and made it into one deck? No Same question for the other 51 cards (if there's a difference). No
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member
Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 5010
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 1:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the game be played online? With a miniature deck? With 52 different items, differentiated in the same way as cards, that are not actual cards (for example, with painted rocks, dominos, toys?) Are questions asked? Answers given? Is any physical equipment required other than the cards (dice, for example)?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17226
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the game be played online? No With a miniature deck? Yes With 52 different items, differentiated in the same way as cards, that are not actual cards (for example, with painted rocks, dominos, toys?) No Are questions asked? No Answers given? Yesish Is any physical equipment required other than the cards (dice, for example)? No
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member
Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 1928
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could I take 26 queens of hearts and 26 queens of spades and put them together and play Smoke and Fire?

If I take 52 midgets and paint pictures of one card on each of their backs, could I theoretically play Smoke and Fire with them? If so, would it be easy? Legal?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17231
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could I take 26 queens of hearts and 26 queens of spades and put them together and play Smoke and Fire? Yes

If I take 52 midgets and paint pictures of one card on each of their backs, could I theoretically play Smoke and Fire with them? Highly theoretically If so, would it be easy? No Legal? Probably not

Just assume an ordinary 52-card deck for this puzzle, as that's how I always play it.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member
Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 5016
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 8:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the game involve counting? Laying cards out in a certain order? Does "smoke" refer to black cards and "fire" to red ones?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17233
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the game involve counting? No Laying cards out in a certain order? No Does "smoke" refer to black cards and "fire" to red ones? Yes -- nice leap!
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member
Username: Ixoye724

Post Number: 3999
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'd really like to see someone paint midgets, what a sight that would be! Of course they get offended at the mention of dwarf tossing, I'm sure that the mention of "midget painting" would cause some backlash. Besides, in order to even mention the idea you'd have to be politically correct and call it "Little Person Painting," but now we're moving into consideration for a new series on the TLC channel...

So this is more of a joke played on someone? A stunt? A prank? A demonstration?

When you participate in this, is it usually you and one other person involved? You and 2 others? Can any number of people participate?

Do you usually invite others to watch when this is done? Can it be performed more than once for the same group of people? Or once you have performed it is everyone "in on it"?

To begin the process, are the cards shuffled? Dealt? Is someone asked to select a card? Are the cards placed on a surface like a table? Are cards handed to anyone? Are you typically seated when you play? Can this be done if you are standing? During the process, do you say anything? Does anyone else say anything? Does the process require some word or words to be said? Are the words "smoke" and "fire" said during the process? Does the process always last the same amount of time? Or does it vary in duration? If so, does the duration affect the outcome? Does this process prey on a "victim"? Do you hold cards in your hand during the process? Does anyone else hold cards in their hand? Do cards remain stacked during the process? Are any or all of the cards spread out during the process? Do you give instructions or commands to anyone during the process? Is a fixed number of cards used during the process? Or does this vary each time the process is carried out?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17235
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My computer won't let my copy/paste, so I have to type that whole thing out... gah...

I'd really like to see someone paint midgets, what a sight that would be! Of course they get offended at the mention of dwarf tossing, I'm sure the mention of "midget painting" would cause some backlash. Besides, in order to even mention the idea you'd have to be politically correct and call it "Little Person Painting," but now we're moving into consideration for a new series on the TLC channel...

So is this more of a joke played on someone? Yes A stunt? A prank? This too A demonstration?

When you participate in this, is it usually you and one other person involved? Yes, always You and 2 others? Can any number of people participate? No

Do you usually invite others to watch when this is done? Not always. I just go with whoever's around Can it be performed more than once for the same group of people? No Or once you have performed it is everyone "in on it"? Yes - good q

To begin the process, are the cards shuffled? Yes Dealt? No Is someone asked to select a card? No Are the cards placed on a surface like a table? No Are cards handed to anyone? No Are you typically seated when you play? Sometimes; it makes no difference Can this be done if you are standing? Yes During the process, do you say anything? Not during, but... Does anyone else say anything? Yes Does the process require some word or words to be said? Yes Are the words "smoke" and "fire" said during the process? Yes Does the process always last the same amount of time? More or less Or does it vary in duration? Only by seconds If so, does the duration affect the outcome? No Does this process prey on a "victim"? Yes Do you hold cards in your hand during the process? Yes Does anyone else hold cards in their hand? No Do cards remain stacked during the process? Yes Are any or all of the cards spread out during the process? No Do you give instructions or commands to anyone during the process? Before starting, I give instructions

Is a fixed number of cars used during the process? Or does this vary each time the process is carried out? DOYD of "used"
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member
Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 1931
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does everyone start with the same fixed number of cards in their hand, but wind up actually "playing" not necessarily the same number?

Is anything relevant about the cards other than the color? Or could I play it with 26 cut-up pieces of red paper and 26 cut-up pieces of black paper? Or would that one be "no" because they'd be red/black on both sides? What if I take 52 sheets of paper, write "RED" in red ink on half of them, and "BLACK" in black ink on the other half?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member
Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 1932
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, my first question should be "Do you start with the same fixed number of cards in your hand...." since the opponent doesn't have any.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member
Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 5021
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the words "Where there's smoke, there's fire," used?

Could you use more or fewer than 52 cards?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17237
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you start with the same fixed number of cards in their hand, Yes but wind up actually "playing" not necessarily the same number? Yes, svv of "playing"

Is anything relevant about the cards other than the color? No, so I don't need to answer the rest of your questions

Are the words "Where there's smoke, there's fire," used? No

Could you use more or fewer than 52 cards? Yes (it can be played with an incomplete deck, for instance)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member
Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 5024
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 1:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What's the minimum and maximum number of cards that can be used? Do you need to have an even amount? An equal amount of each color?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17238
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 3:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What's the minimum and maximum number of cards that can be used? Theoretical minimum is 27. Maximum can be theoretically infinite. Do you need to have an even amount? No An equal amount of each color? No
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member
Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 5612
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 6:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's not "52 Pickup" is it? (I get more than slightly perturbed with that one, lol. No cheezburgur for the kitteh who tries that one on me...)
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17240
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's not "52 Pickup" is it? It's not, but it's along those lines (I get more than slightly perturbed with that one, lol. No cheezburgur for the kitteh who tries that one on me...)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member
Username: Ixoye724

Post Number: 4001
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At the end of the stunt, are you holding all of the cards? Is the other person holding any of them? Are neither of you holding the cards?

Are any other objects or "props" used during the stunt? Does the stunt end when a certain card is shown? Does the other person see several cards during the stunt? After you give instructions, do you say anything else before, during or after the stunt? Does the other person look at you during the stunt? Are they blindfolded? Do they look at something else? Do they look at the cards?

For the stunt, do you display random cards? Or have you pre-selected certain cards which will be shown? Do you alternate showing black/red cards to the other person? Do you ask the other person to draw cards? Is there a certain point at which your actions change? Is there a specific "stopping point" to the stunt? Is there a point where the other person realizes that it's a stunt, and that's when you end it?

Do you throw any cards at any point? Is the other person supposed to simply say "smoke" or "fire" in response to seeing black or red cards? Is there a certain card that is supposed to get a different response? Do you yell anything during the stunt? Does the other person yell anything?
Shez (Shez)
New member
Username: Shez

Post Number: 3105
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the game involve memorising things? having a good memory?

does it involve manual dexterity?

is it a trick? do you cheat? is it a magic trick?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17242
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At the end of the stunt, are you holding all of the cards? Is the other person holding any of them? Are neither of you holding the cards? This

Are any other objects or "props" used during the stunt? No Does the stunt end when a certain card is shown? Yope Does the other person see several cards during the stunt? Yes After you give instructions, do you say anything else before, during or after the stunt? No Does the other person look at you during the stunt? Yes, and more specifically... Are they blindfolded? Do they look at something else? Do they look at the cards? This

For the stunt, do you display random cards? Yesish Or have you pre-selected certain cards which will be shown? No Do you alternate showing black/red cards to the other person? No Do you ask the other person to draw cards? No Is there a certain point at which your actions change? Yes Is there a specific "stopping point" to the stunt? Yes Is there a point where the other person realizes that it's a stunt, and that's when you end it? Yesish

Do you throw any cards at any point? YES Is the other person supposed to simply say "smoke" or "fire" in response to seeing black or red cards? Yes Is there a certain card that is supposed to get a different response? Yope Do you yell anything during the stunt? No Does the other person yell anything? No

does the game involve memorising things? having a good memory? does it involve manual dexterity? is it a trick? do you cheat? is it a magic trick? No to all
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member
Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 5031
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you toss cards on the table? At the other player? Is there a pattern to the game? If so, do you break the pattern at some point?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17243
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2012 - 1:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you toss cards on the table? No At the other player? Yes Is there a pattern to the game? Yopish If so, do you break the pattern at some point? Yopish
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member
Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 1939
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 3:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you throw the cards at the person if they're wrong? If they're right? Regardless? Do you "fire" something (like a water gun) at them when they yell "fire"?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member
Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 1940
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 3:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we *would* be playing dwarf tossing if we painted the cards on their backs.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member
Username: Ixoye724

Post Number: 4007
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dwarf card tossing sounds fun...the little people would never agree to do it.
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17246
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you throw the cards at the person if they're wrong? If they're right? Regardless? No to these... Do you "fire" something (like a water gun) at them when they yell "fire"? Yes (not a water gun)...
Kyeannpepper (Kyeannpepper)
New member
Username: Kyeannpepper

Post Number: 866
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 1:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a gun of any type? Paintball gun? Nerf gun? Considering they're only annoyed, I seriously doubt it's a real gun xP.

If not a gun, perhaps water balloons? Is what you 'fire' at them relevant?

Do you throw the cards (or 'fire' whatever) when the person says 'fire' in response to a red card?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member
Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 1944
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 4:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you set anything on fire? Do you fire them from their job? If so, are you really their boss or is it a "job" in the card game?
Is this your way of firing employees? That would be interesting.
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 17250
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you throw the cards (or 'fire' whatever) when the person says 'fire' in response to a red card? And we have a winner...

**********SPOILER**********

The game works like this: I instruct the other player that when he (or she, obviously) sees a black card, to say "Smoke," and a red card, "Fire." I shuffle the deck but usually put a couple extra black cards at the bottom of the deck. Then I hold the deck up so that he sees the bottom card. They say "Smoke," I move that card to the top of the deck, they say "Smoke," I move the card, etc. When the first red card appears, they say "Fire." I obey the order and fire the cards (via a throw or flick) at them. Then the game is up, and the other player is usually annoyed or amused.

Nice work everyone: a lot of you helped out in solving this. Next puzzle coming up.

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: