| Author | Message | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 283 Registered: 10-2011 |
On Friday, Toby ran into Christine. On Saturday, he runs into Josh. They sit down to have a coffee and a chat, and a few minutes later, Toby is dead. If Toby had not met Christine the day before, Josh would have been a lot happier with Toby's death. | ||
| Lateralstar9 (Lateralstar9)
New member Username: Lateralstar9 Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2012 |
Run into as in meet? Or as make physical contact with? Did Christine know Josh? If so, did she know he would die soon? Did Toby know Josh before running into him? Did he know Josh would die as they sat down for coffee? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 285 Registered: 10-2011 |
Run into as in meet? yes Or as make physical contact with? no, they did not collide Did Christine know Josh? no If so, did she know he would die soon? Toby is the one who dies. And no, Christine did not know he would die Did Toby know Josh before running into him? yes, Toby and Josh knew each other Did he know Josh would die as they sat down for coffee? again, Toby is the one who dies. Josh did not exactly know that Toby would die as they sat down, but this point is worth exploring | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 5052 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is Toby H/A/M? Is Christine H/A/F? Is Josh H/A/M? Do Toby and Josh meet at a coffee shop? Does Toby know Josh? Christine? Is foul play involved in Toby's death? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 288 Registered: 10-2011 |
Is Toby H/A/M? Is Christine H/A/F? Is Josh H/A/M? yes to all Do Toby and Josh meet at a coffee shop? they meet nearby one, and then go there to have a coffee Does Toby know Josh? yes Christine? and yes Is foul play involved in Toby's death? yes! | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 5061 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was Josh responsible for Toby's death? Was Christine? Is it relevant where Christine and Toby met? Did Toby drink poisoned coffee? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 292 Registered: 10-2011 |
Was Josh responsible for Toby's death? yes! Was Christine? no Is it relevant where Christine and Toby met? not exactly where Did Toby drink poisoned coffee? no | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 5064 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was Josh caught and convicted of Toby's murder? Because Toby had met Christine? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 294 Registered: 10-2011 |
Was Josh caught and convicted of Toby's murder? Because Toby had met Christine? assume that Josh got away with it | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 5065 Registered: 5-2003 |
Had Josh intended to kill Christine? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 295 Registered: 10-2011 |
Had Josh intended to kill Christine? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 17289 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the method of murder relevant? Did Josh poison Toby's coffee? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 300 Registered: 10-2011 |
Is the method of murder relevant? yes, very much so Did Josh poison Toby's coffee? no, but keep exploring... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 17291 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was Toby killed by poison? Shot? Stabbed? Bludgeoned? Suffocated? Strangled? Drowned? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 301 Registered: 10-2011 |
Was Toby killed by poison? yes Shot? Stabbed? Bludgeoned? Suffocated? Strangled? Drowned? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 5072 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was the sugar poisoned? The cup? Was Toby poisoned at the coffee shop at all? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 302 Registered: 10-2011 |
Was the sugar poisoned? The cup? Was Toby poisoned at the coffee shop at all? no, no and no | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 5084 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did Josh directly poison Toby? During their interaction? Was it a coincidence that Toby died while with Josh? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 683 Registered: 6-2003 |
Is it relevant why Josh killed Toby? Are Christine, Toby and/or Josh related to each other in any way apart from being mere friends? Family relations, perhaps? Or romantic liaisons? (Any unrequited romantic desire from one of them against another?) Or a lawyer/client? Was Josh less happy about Toby's death because: Toby died at a different point in time / in a different place than Josh would have preferred? He no longer believed that Toby deserved to die? He wanted someone else to die in addition to Toby, and realised that this wouldn't happen? Knew that what he wanted to happen as a result of Toby's death, now wouldn't happen? Or was less likely to happen? Was Josh hoping to benefit from the proceeds of Toby's will? Does he, in fact, benefit? Did Christine tell Toby something relevant during their meeting that eventually leads to this change in Josh's happiness? Give Toby something? Do something to Toby? When does Josh's happiness-level change: before he begins to poison Toby? after he does the deed of poisoning whatever it is he poisons, but before Toby ingests the poison? after Toby is poisoned, but before he dies? As Toby is dying? After Toby dies? If the last one, then does he only become less happy after meeting with someone else? Christine specifically? And how long after the death does this happen: seconds? minutes? hours? days? weeks? months? years? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 305 Registered: 10-2011 |
Did Josh directly poison Toby? DOYD of "directly" During their interaction? no Was it a coincidence that Toby died while with Josh? yope Is it relevant why Josh killed Toby? yes Are Christine, Toby and/or Josh related to each other in any way apart from being mere friends? Family relations, perhaps? Or romantic liaisons? Toby and Christine have an early-phase romantic relationship, Toby and Josh are friends, Christine and Josh don't know each other (Any unrequited romantic desire from one of them against another?) Or a lawyer/client? Was Josh less happy about Toby's death because: Toby died at a different point in time / in a different place than Josh would have preferred? yesish, but there is more to it than that He no longer believed that Toby deserved to die? yes, definitely OTRT! He wanted someone else to die in addition to Toby, and realised that this wouldn't happen? no Knew that what he wanted to happen as a result of Toby's death, now wouldn't happen? Or was less likely to happen? Was Josh hoping to benefit from the proceeds of Toby's will? no Does he, in fact, benefit? so irr Did Christine tell Toby something relevant during their meeting that eventually leads to this change in Josh's happiness? no Give Toby something? no Do something to Toby? well, hm, in a way, but veery indirectly When does Josh's happiness-level change: before he begins to poison Toby? after he does the deed of poisoning whatever it is he poisons, but before Toby ingests the poison? after Toby is poisoned, but before he dies? As Toby is dying? After Toby dies? If the last one, then does he only become less happy after meeting with someone else? Christine specifically? And how long after the death does this happen: seconds? minutes? hours? days? weeks? months? years? he becomes less happy with the death of Toby during their conversation, before Toby dies | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 5094 Registered: 5-2003 |
So, does he become less happy after poisoning Toby but before Toby dies? Did he still intend to kill Toby at this point? Did Toby tell him something about Christine? Something unexpected? Is romance involved? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 308 Registered: 10-2011 |
So, does he become less happy after poisoning Toby but before Toby dies? yes Did he still intend to kill Toby at this point? until his level of happiness changes, yes Did Toby tell him something about Christine? in a way, yes Something unexpected? yes Is romance involved? yes | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 970 Registered: 8-2005 |
Pregnancy? | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 3186 Registered: 2-2011 |
does he become less happy during the conversation because Toby tells him something? that he met Christine yesterday? something more than this? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 5100 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is there a love triangle between Toby, Christine and Josh? Did Josh kill Toby as a rival for Christine? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 309 Registered: 10-2011 |
Pregnancy? no does he become less happy during the conversation because Toby tells him something? yes that he met Christine yesterday? YES something more than this? he does provide some very important details about the meeting Is there a love triangle between Toby, Christine and Josh? yope or yesish Did Josh kill Toby as a rival for Christine? no, but you're definitely OTRT | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 3189 Registered: 2-2011 |
was Josh in love with Toby? did Josh think Toby loved his own girlfriend/wife/object of his affections? did Toby tell Josh he was in love with/would like to date Christine? or that they had been an item in the past? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 311 Registered: 10-2011 |
was Josh in love with Toby? no did Josh think Toby loved his own girlfriend/wife/object of his affections? YES! did Toby tell Josh he was in love with/would like to date Christine? yes or that they had been an item in the past? well, that they had been now for some time | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 3191 Registered: 2-2011 |
so Josh had poisoned Toby thinking he was a rival, then realised he wasn't? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 312 Registered: 10-2011 |
so Josh had poisoned Toby thinking he was a rival, then realised he wasn't? yes We are very close to a motive, but have yet to decide on the method - and in what way Toby's meeting with Christine caused Josh's realizing Toby wasn't the rival he thought. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 3193 Registered: 2-2011 |
is the inamorata Josh's wife? girlfriend? someone he would like to date? was the poison put into something Toby drank? ate? inhaled? rubbed into his skin? radioactivity relevant? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 314 Registered: 10-2011 |
is the inamorata Josh's wife? girlfriend? someone he would like to date? either of these would work, but I originally thought his wife was the poison put into something Toby drank? ate? inhaled? rubbed into his skin? radioactivity relevant? no to all of these | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 1158 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did Toby eat the poison (without it being put into something else)? Drink it? Was it injected? Put on some object Toby would handle? Did Toby mention some specific situation in his meeting with Christine? Something he said? Did? Something Christine said? Did? The time of the meeting? The place? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 322 Registered: 10-2011 |
Did Toby eat the poison (without it being put into something else)? no, it wouldn't be right to say he ate it Drink it? no Was it injected? no Put on some object Toby would handle? yope Did Toby mention some specific situation in his meeting with Christine? yes, but it's not really relevant Something he said? Did? Something Christine said? Did? The time of the meeting? The place? same goes for the rest | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 1160 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did Toby ingest the poison orally? By putting some object in his mouth? Maybe a tooth-brush? Toothpaste? Toothpicks? Or by licking at something? The gumming of envelopes? Stamps? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 323 Registered: 10-2011 |
Did Toby ingest the poison orally? By putting some object in his mouth? Maybe a tooth-brush? Toothpaste? DING-DING-DING! That is absolutely correct!! Toothpicks? Or by licking at something? The gumming of envelopes? Stamps? I believe we have about everything now, all that remains is to connect the dots | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 971 Registered: 8-2005 |
Did Christine use the same toothpaste? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 1162 Registered: 5-2009 |
Let's see what we have: Josh thinks that Toby has an affair with his wife or is trying to have one. He decides to kill Toby by putting poison in Toby's toothpaste. In fact, Toby has no interest in Josh's wife but recently has fallen in love with Christine. Toby tells Josh about his new relationship, so Josh now considers his suspicion as improbable. Unfortunately, Toby already ingested the poison and dies before Josh can do anything about it. What is left to find out: How Josh got hold of Toby's toothpaste? The reason for Toby's original suspicion? A reason for Toby to believe that Josh didn't have an affair with his wife even before falling in love with Christine? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 324 Registered: 10-2011 |
Did Christine use the same toothpaste? no Let's see what we have: Josh thinks that Toby has an affair with his wife or is trying to have one. He decides to kill Toby by putting poison in Toby's toothpaste. In fact, Toby has no interest in Josh's wife but recently has fallen in love with Christine. Toby tells Josh about his new relationship, so Josh now considers his suspicion as improbable. Unfortunately, Toby already ingested the poison and dies before Josh can do anything about it. that sounds about right, only a couple of minor pieces missing What is left to find out: How Josh got hold of Toby's toothpaste? well, yes, but the answer to that is really pretty simple and uninteresting - I wouldn't focus on it The reason for Toby's original suspicion? there is a smaill but important piece missing here, yes A reason for Toby to believe that Josh didn't have an affair with his wife even before falling in love with Christine? well, if you figure out the previous one, this one will fall into place pretty automatically In addition, you also need to figure out exactly why Toby's meeting with Christine on Friday led to Josh's discovery that his suspiscion of Toby was wrong. Toby might have told him about his relationship even if he hadn't met Christine the day before, so what is going on there? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 684 Registered: 6-2003 |
Do Toby and Christine do anything at this meeting apart from talk to each other (well, apart from the expected hugs, kisses, etc.)? Did they go somewhere? Do something togather? Have sex for the first time? Become 'Facebook official'? In some other fashion progress to the "next stage of their relationship"? Is this Toby's first serious relationship? Was he a virgin before he met Christine? Relevant? Did Toby meet Christine via Josh's wife? Or meet Josh's wife via Christine? Do Christine and Josh's wife know each other? Did Josh become suspicious because Toby spent a lot of time around his wife - whereas in reality, this was because meeting Christine and being near Josh's wife were unavoidable? Coincidental? | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1558 Registered: 4-2007 |
Had Toby been acting like he was in love for a while, or in some other way behaving differently, and Josh thought this was due to his wife but it could actually be explained by Christine? | ||
| Kiariehanata (Kiariehanata)
New member Username: Kiariehanata Post Number: 34 Registered: 5-2012 |
Did Toby tell Josh he was going to propose or had proposed during his meeting with Christine? | ||
| Jamal_rj (Jamal_rj)
New member Username: Jamal_rj Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2012 |
Was Josh Toby's dentist? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 327 Registered: 10-2011 |
Do Toby and Christine do anything at this meeting apart from talk to each other (well, apart from the expected hugs, kisses, etc.)? yes Did they go somewhere? yes Do something togather? well, yes, probably Have sex for the first time? I believe it is likely that they had sex, though not necessarily for the first time Become 'Facebook official'? lol, no In some other fashion progress to the "next stage of their relationship"? no Is this Toby's first serious relationship? irr Was he a virgin before he met Christine? irr Relevant? so that's a no Did Toby meet Christine via Josh's wife? no Or meet Josh's wife via Christine? no Do Christine and Josh's wife know each other? no Did Josh become suspicious because Toby spent a lot of time around his wife - whereas in reality, this was because meeting Christine and being near Josh's wife were unavoidable? no Coincidental? not sure I understand what you mean here Had Toby been acting like he was in love for a while, or in some other way behaving differently, and Josh thought this was due to his wife but it could actually be explained by Christine? well, yes, that's basically it, only there is a little bit more to it Did Toby tell Josh he was going to propose or had proposed during his meeting with Christine? no | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 328 Registered: 10-2011 |
Was Josh Toby's dentist? haha, no, but wonderful lateral thinking! | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 1167 Registered: 5-2009 |
Were Toby and Christine planning their wedding? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 333 Registered: 10-2011 |
Were Toby and Christine planning their wedding? no, nothing like that - and it doesn't really matter exactly what they were doing, only one particular effect of it | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1569 Registered: 4-2007 |
Did Josh know that Toby had met with someone but thought that it was his wife, rather than Christine? Did he call him and hear a woman's voice pick up? See him with a woman but couldn't tell who it was? See women's clothes or items in his house? See a lipstick stain on his collar, or smell perfume on him or similar? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 337 Registered: 10-2011 |
Did Josh know that Toby had met with someone but thought that it was his wife, rather than Christine? yes Did he call him and hear a woman's voice pick up? hadn't thought of this, but it would be a nice addition See him with a woman but couldn't tell who it was? yesish See women's clothes or items in his house? her clothes probably, yes See a lipstick stain on his collar, or smell perfume on him or similar? not highly relevant, but something like this might very well have triggered his original suspiscion | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1570 Registered: 4-2007 |
So: Josh suspects that Toby is having an affair with his wife. (Has he suspected this for a while? Or is it solely Toby's meeting with Christine that sets off his suspicions?) Toby meets up with Christine one day. Josh sees them together, but thinks Toby is with Josh's wife. He also sees women's clothes in Toby's house which he suspects belong to his wife. Josh then somehow poisons Toby's toothpaste in jealousy. The next day Josh meets Toby, and learns that in fact it is Christine he is dating. Unfortunately he poison has already entered his system and he dies. Is this correct? Should we be finding out more about what Toby and Christine did together that day? About why Josh was so sure of the affair? About how he gained access to Toby's toothpaste (just because they are friends so he can go to his house? A more complex way of doing it?) About why it took a day for Toby to die of the poison? Is the relation between Josh and Christine relevant? Does he know her? Are they related? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 344 Registered: 10-2011 |
So: Josh suspects that Toby is having an affair with his wife. (Has he suspected this for a while? yes Or is it solely Toby's meeting with Christine that sets off his suspicions?) Toby meets up with Christine one day. Josh sees them together, but thinks Toby is with Josh's wife. He also sees women's clothes in Toby's house which he suspects belong to his wife. Josh then somehow poisons Toby's toothpaste in jealousy. The next day Josh meets Toby, and learns that in fact it is Christine he is dating. Unfortunately he poison has already entered his system and he dies. Is this correct? Absolutely! Funny thing is, you've pretty much got everything except the thing I originally intended to be the "twist" of the puzzle. However, the way questions have progressed, it doesn't really have that big "twist"-factor anymore. Should we be finding out more about what Toby and Christine did together that day? Might be a good idea, yes About why Josh was so sure of the affair? less important, but a tiny detail still missing here About how he gained access to Toby's toothpaste (just because they are friends so he can go to his house? exactly - doesn't need to be more complex than that. All he had to do was make an excuse to use his bathroom and poison the toothpaste A more complex way of doing it?) About why it took a day for Toby to die of the poison? YES! Is the relation between Josh and Christine relevant? Does he know her? Are they related? no, no and no | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1573 Registered: 4-2007 |
Did Toby brush his teeth with the poisoned toothpaste on the night of the day he met with Christine? On the morning of the day he met Josh and died? Immediately before he died? Is the poison used one that takes a day or so to kick in? Does it only become poisonous when mixed with another substance? Did Josh intend to kill only Toby? Is Toby the only person who dies from the toothpaste? Did Toby stay at Christine's the night before he died? Did he forget his toothpaste? Use hers? | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 346 Registered: 10-2011 |
Did Toby brush his teeth with the poisoned toothpaste on the night of the day he met with Christine? no On the morning of the day he met Josh and died? yes Immediately before he died? Is the poison used one that takes a day or so to kick in? no Does it only become poisonous when mixed with another substance? Did Josh intend to kill only Toby? yes Is Toby the only person who dies from the toothpaste? yes Did Toby stay at Christine's the night before he died? bingo!! Did he forget his toothpaste? Use hers? well, he didn't have a toothbrush there at all, I believe... I think that's about enough for a.... *****SPOILER***** Josh and Toby are old friends. However, Josh thinks that Toby is having an affair with his wife. In reality, Toby is seeing Christine, who happens to look a lot like Toby's wife. Josh rashly decides to kill Toby by poisoning his toothpaste. However, that evening, on his way home, Toby runs into Christine and decides to go for a drink with her. He then spends the night at her place, and thus doesn't brush his teeth that night. The next morning he returns home, where he does brush his teeth before going out again. Shortly thereafter he meets Josh, who is shocked to see Toby alive and well. He suggests they sit down at a café to have a coffee, and he questions him about what he did yesterday. When Toby tells him about Christine, Josh realizes his horrible mistake, but it is too late. Right then the poison kicks in, and Toby dies. Of course, if Toby hadn't run into Christine, he probably would have brushed his teeth the evening before, died in the night, and Josh would never have learned how wrong he was about his friend. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 17307 Registered: 4-2010 |
Great puzzle Jondahr! Puzzles involving death are always top-notch. | ||
| Jondahr (Jondahr)
New member Username: Jondahr Post Number: 354 Registered: 10-2011 |
Thank you, Balin! And I totally agree about death in puzzles. I am a bit of a whodunit-freak, I must admit. |
