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Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In my part-time job I learned a lot about a subject not a lot of people think much about. As a result, whenever someone has a question about it, they ask me.
One of the questions I frequently get asked stems from what I think (and hope) is a common scrund. Most of the time I have to tell them that they are wrong; but sometimes I can tell them that:
"You are, in some sense, exactly 50% right."

What is the scrund?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Your profile says that you're a "Museum host and planetarium operator". Are we talking about your job at the museum? At the planetarium? (Or are they actually the same thing?)

Is the scrund related to astronomy?
To stars? The solar system? The sun? Planets? Comets? Asteroids? Solar eclipses? Lunar eclipses?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Your profile says that you're a "Museum host and planetarium operator". Are we talking about your job at the museum? At the planetarium? (Or are they actually the same thing?)
Yeah, I worked in a planetarium in a museum. Crap, I forgot that was in my profile, I was hoping this part of the riddle would take longer.

Is the scrund related to astronomy? Yes
To stars? Yes The solar system? Yes The sun? No Planets? Yes Comets? No Asteroids? No Solar eclipses? No Lunar eclipses? No
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jupiter relevant? Its moons?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jupiter relevant? Yes, guessing you got that from the title. Its moons? No
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Jupiter's size relevant? What it is composed of? Its atmosphere? Its temperature?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Jupiter's size relevant? What it is composed of? Its atmosphere? Its temperature?
No to all
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 01, 2012 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great Red Spot?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Monday, October 01, 2012 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great Red Spot? No
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, October 01, 2012 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

its mass? gravity? colour? Shoemaker Levy?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Post Number: 34
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Posted on Monday, October 01, 2012 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

its mass? gravity? colour? Shoemaker Levy?
No to all
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 384
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, an astronomy puzzle - one of my interests, although I don't know if that will help me here because it might mean I'm not aware of the scrund.

Is Jupiter the only planet that scrund applies to?

Is the position of Jupiter in the sky relevant?
Time of day relevant?

Zodiac relevant?


About the "exactly" 50 % right:
Does this depend on the way they phrase their assertion? Do they sometimes phrase it as a question? Does this matter (question vs. assertion)?

Oops just say your point about not being related to the Sun - otherwise I would have a possible answer.

Brightness (magnitude) relevant?

Astrology relevant?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 385
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops I forgot a couple:

Does the 50% right mean that the scrund is actually a true statement but only for people in certain locations on earth?

Arctic/antarctic circles relevant? Tropics of cancer/capricorn relevant?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 1:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, an astronomy puzzle - one of my interests, Awesome although I don't know if that will help me here because it might mean I'm not aware of the scrund. I hope you have

Is Jupiter the only planet that scrund applies to? No

Is the position of Jupiter in the sky relevant? Not really
Time of day relevant? Not really

Zodiac relevant? No


About the "exactly" 50 % right:
Does this depend on the way they phrase their assertion? No Do they sometimes phrase it as a question? Almost always a question, but not really relevant Does this matter (question vs. assertion)? Nope

Oops just say your point about not being related to the Sun - otherwise I would have a possible answer.

Brightness (magnitude) relevant? Yes

Astrology relevant? No

Oops I forgot a couple:

Does the 50% right mean that the scrund is actually a true statement but only for people in certain locations on earth? No, the scrund is false. The 50% thing is tricky.

Arctic/antarctic circles relevant? Tropics of cancer/capricorn relevant? No to both
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 1:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, didn't mean that the scrund was true (by definition), only questioning the 50 % bit, sorry. I misphrased that.

Is Venus also relevant? If so, I might duck out and send you an email.
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 2:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I actualLy think I might not know this scrund.

The 50% answer is exact, correct?

Do you answer with the 50% depending on the the way the question is phrased?

Are the R/A and declination of Jupiter relevant?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the future of Jupiter relevant?

The fact that it can sometimes be seen with a careful eye during daylight - is that relevant?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 7:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, didn't mean that the scrund was true (by definition), only questioning the 50 % bit, sorry. I misphrased that. No, the person asking is 100 % wrong, at least in his/her own eyes. But from mine they are, in a sense, 50 % correct. As I said before, this is the tricky part.

Is Venus also relevant? No If so, I might duck out and send you an email.I'd like to hear it anyway

I actualLy think I might not know this scrund.

The 50% answer is exact, correct? Yes, exactly half correct, in the same way that Ringo Starr was the Beatles is 25 % correct. (Disregard fifth Beatle)

Do you answer with the 50% depending on the the way the question is phrased? No, phrasing isn't that important.

Are the R/A and declination of Jupiter relevant? No

Is the future of Jupiter relevant? No

The fact that it can sometimes be seen with a careful eye during daylight - is that relevant? No
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 7:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to make sure. this possible 50% correct is truly exact, and not just an approximation?

Not the weird belief that some crazies have that Jupiter will eventually turn into a star?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 7:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it related to Jupiter's orbit? Its location relative to Earth? Its location relative to other planets? Its rotation? The length of its year? What it's made of? Its appearance? Its weather?

Which other planets are relevant:
Mercury? Mars? Saturn? Uranus? Neptune? Earth? Other planets outside of our solar system? Fictional planets?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 8:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to make sure. this possible 50% correct is truly exact, and not just an approximation? Yes, it's exact

Not the weird belief that some crazies have that Jupiter will eventually turn into a star? No

Is it related to Jupiter's orbit? No Its location relative to Earth? No Its location relative to other planets? Sort of Its rotation? No The length of its year? No What it's made of? No Its appearance? Yes Its weather? No

Which other planets are relevant:
Mercury? Mars? Saturn? Only this one Uranus? Neptune? Earth? Other planets outside of our solar system? Fictional planets?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 8:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the 50% correctness to be understood in the way that there is a 50% chance that the fact is true, but we might not know for sure in beforehand? (like when tossing a coin)
or is it a fact that during 50% of the time is true, while it is wrong during the other 50%? (like "Jupiter is closer to the Earth than Saturn" -- though I do not know to which extent this is true)
or is it a statement where only a part is true while the other part is wrong?
Does the scrund (or fact, or statement) compare Jupiter and Saturn? consider some relationship between them?
Things named "Jupiter" and/or "Saturn" relevant (others than the planets)? Roman (or other) mythology? Astrology?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 9:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the 50% correctness to be understood in the way that there is a 50% chance that the fact is true, but we might not know for sure in beforehand? (like when tossing a coin) or is it a fact that during 50% of the time is true, while it is wrong during the other 50%? (like "Jupiter is closer to the Earth than Saturn" -- though I do not know to which extent this is true) No, not like that. Read the Beatles analogy I posted earlier
or is it a statement where only a part is true while the other part is wrong? Not quite like this either
Does the scrund (or fact, or statement) compare Jupiter and Saturn? No consider some relationship between them? No
Things named "Jupiter" and/or "Saturn" relevant (others than the planets)? No Roman (or other) mythology? No Astrology? No
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, made a mistake
Roman (or other) mythology? I'm changing this to yes.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

about Jove and Jupiter being the same thing?

about why the planet was named after him?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

about Jove and Jupiter being the same thing?

about why the planet was named after him?

No, that was just a clever title. Has nothing to do with the scrund itself.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, appearance is relevant, but not colors. What about the size Saturn and Jupiter appear to be? Light? The appearance of motion? The appearance of the zodiac symbols that represent them?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, appearance is relevant, but not colors. What about the size Saturn and Jupiter appear to be? Light? The appearance of motion? The appearance of the zodiac symbols that represent them?
No to all
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Smooth vs. rough surface texture?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

rings?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Smooth vs. rough surface texture? No
rings? No That reminds me, in the planetarium we had a movie that called Saturn "The Lord of the Rings". Funny first time, got a bit stale after watching it 500 times.
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Star of Bethlehem?
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Star of Bethlehem? Yes! Think you can connect it together now?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do some people think that the star of Bethlehem was actually Jupiter? A conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn? (I've heard several theories).

As an aside, I hear that a lot of astronomers (and I suppose planetarium currators) get comments from people that are surprised to see the moon in the sky during daylight, wondering if it's some strange anomaly.
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do some people think that the star of Bethlehem was actually Jupiter? A conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn? (I've heard several theories). Yeah, this is it

******SPOILER******

Around Christmas times I am asked frequently if that (pointing at brightest thing in the sky) is the Star of Bethlehem. Usually this will be Sirius, Rigel, Castor, Pollux or a planet that is visible around Christmas that year.

When I was asked whether Jupiter was the Star of Bethlehem, I answered as in the puzzle description, that it was, in a sense, 50 % correct, as one of the theories conserning the Star of Bethlehem was that it was a triple conjuction of Jupiter and Saturn (Mars also comes close to them that year).

I think it was two years ago when Venus was visible on the sky in the evening in the winter. Got a ton of questions about the Star of Bethlehem.


As an aside, I hear that a lot of astronomers (and I suppose planetarium currators) get comments from people that are surprised to see the moon in the sky during daylight, wondering if it's some strange anomaly.
Hehe, I have certainly gotten some weird questions. In case some of you don't know, one of the things done in a planetarium is showing the audience the starry sky of the following night, explaining what different things are; where planets will be etc. One person asked me: "But where is the Earth?"
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It must be a fun job. Do you give talks? It's always rewarding to get people in to astronomy, but it's tough. I did get a couple of people to walk outside to look at the last crescent moon and Venus conjunction (I don't know how close they have to be to qualify as a conjunction - or is it when they're at the same right acension?) But generally, when I mention upcoming meteor showers and the like, I just get vacant stares
Modicum (Modicum)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2012 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It must be a fun job. Do you give talks? It's always rewarding to get people in to astronomy, but it's tough. I did get a couple of people to walk outside to look at the last crescent moon and Venus conjunction (I don't know how close they have to be to qualify as a conjunction - or is it when they're at the same right acension?) But generally, when I mention upcoming meteor showers and the like, I just get vacant stares

I have regular shows talking about either that nights sky, or the solar system and universe in general. I find that people have really low expectations, and are amazed even if I only talk about the Big Dipper (the Plough, Karlswagen, la Casserole, etc.) People don't know a lot, but many are eager to learn. My best experiences are on the quiet days, when only one or two groups show up for a show. If they are interested I often talk for fifty minutes, with them asking every question they have. This is harder with larger groups, as people tend to become timid, and some people get bored quickly.

I have no formal training on the subject. I just applied for a part-time job at a local science museum, and they asked if I wanted to run the planetarium. I, having no idea what a planetarium was, said yes. A month later people were asking me where I had studied astronomy and thanking me for the experience after shows. That was really gratifying.

If some of you reading this has not done so: Travel to some dark place and look at the stars. You might think you know how they look, but you'll be amazed at just how big the sky is.

I have many stories, but I think I'll leave it at that.
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2012 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Note: If you live in a city, you may have to go quite a distance to see the stars, - or go to a planatarium, because of light pollution. Even where we live, in a small town about 20 miles from a sizeable, but not really large, city, we don't see many. Get really out in the country!
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solo, you are so right - it is so fantastic to see everything without light pollution - It is truly amazing!

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