[Sundowner] An der Alster, an der Elb... Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - April 2005 » [Sundowner] An der Alster, an der Elbe, an der Bill « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Archive through December 08, 2004Jens Weber22 12-08-04  4:29 pm
Archive through December 23, 2004Jens Weber22 12-23-04  2:56 pm
Archive through February 10, 2005Jens Weber22 2-10-05  12:32 pm
Archive through February 24, 2005Jens Weber22 2-24-05  4:22 pm
Archive through March 15, 2005Fred Z22 3-15-05  1:17 am
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did people go to eat there? Yes.
or did they just go to listen to the music? No, primarily they go there to have lunch.

Is the music live? No.
piped in through speakers? Yes.
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the music prolong their stay somehow?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the music prolong their stay somehow? From one point of view: no, even on the contrary. From another point of view: yes. :)
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great, that was real helpful! ;) ;)

Do the people like the food more than the music? vica versa?

Is prices relevant at all? different times of day?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great, that was real helpful! ;) ;) Sorry, there was no other way to answer this question without misleading you. Each person who goes there for lunch does not stay longer than what's usually needed for having lunch, let's say 30-40 minutes. But ..

Do the people like the food more than the music? vica versa? Essentially they go there for the food. They might appreciate the music as well, but more an indirect effect of the music.

Is prices relevant at all? No, prices were not changed.
different times of day? Lunch time (let's say 11am - 2pm) is relevant, but perhaps you're heading into the right direction.
Tommy Petersson (Tommyp)
Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the restaurant have a problem that everyone wanted to eat at the same time? and they couldn't seat so many? and during non-peak hours it wasn't full?

Did they start to play music during non-peak hours to get people to vary the time they went to eat a little more?

Was the music there to affect people's decision when to eat in any other way? where to eat? where in this restaurant? what to eat?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They sell more food and drink but the people eating there don't eat or drink any more than usual--there are more people eating there than there would be without the music?

Is the location relevant? Are there competing places to eat nearby?

Time zones relevant?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tommy
Did the restaurant have a problem that everyone wanted to eat at the same time? Noish.
and they couldn't seat so many? This is somewhat the right forest.
and during non-peak hours it wasn't full? It was full all the time, more or less.

Did they start to play music during non-peak hours to get people to vary the time they went to eat a little more? On the contrary ..

Was the music there to affect people's decision when to eat in any other way? Noish.
where to eat? Yes.
where in this restaurant? No.
what to eat? No.

Bodo
They sell more food and drink but the people eating there don't eat or drink any more than usual--there are more people eating there than there would be without the music? Yes.

Is the location relevant? Yes.
Are there competing places to eat nearby? But no.

Time zones relevant? No.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the music is causing people who otherwise wouldn't've eaten there to eat there after all?

Does the playing of music indicate to people that the restaurant is open? Help them find it? Make them notice it? Realize they're hungry?

Tourism relevant? Culture/ethnicity?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the music is causing people who otherwise wouldn't've eaten there to eat there after all? Yes-ish.

Does the playing of music indicate to people that the restaurant is open? No, they know pretty well that it's open.
Help them find it? No, they know where it is either.
Make them notice it? No.
Realize they're hungry? No.

Tourism relevant? No.
Culture/ethnicity? No.

Could be helpful to find out more about the restaurant.
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they want customers to spend less time eating?

Is the restaurant a bar? a fast food place? a restaurant that happens to have a bar section?

Is the tempo/tone of the music relevant? does it change depending on how many are there?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they want customers to spend less time eating? There's a grain of truth in it. They don't want to speed them up eating (though this would be a nice side effect), but..

Is the restaurant a bar? It might be called bar, yes, but the list of places that might be called a bar range from coffee bar to night club.
a fast food place? Yesish, but not a burger place.
a restaurant that happens to have a bar section? It has, as a matter of fact, but this is probably of less relevance.

Is the tempo/tone of the music relevant? Yes.
does it change depending on how many are there? Yes-ish.

Darn good questions! ;)
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they want customers to leave soon enough to be replaced by new customers?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they want customers to leave soon enough to be replaced by new customers? Yope. The music was intended to make some of the customers leave.
Tommy Petersson (Tommyp)
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So one specific group of people usually sat there longer than the owners of the restaurant liked? and they asked the orchestra to play music they thought that group didn't like? so they would leave earlier?

Was it a well-defined group? elderly people? young people? foreigners? tourists (both foreign and national)? locals?

Did they have a buffé? so some people not only took up a seat too long time, but also ate too much?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So one specific group of people usually sat there longer than the owners of the restaurant liked? Yes.
and they asked the orchestra to play music they thought that group didn't like? There was no orchestra, they simply played recorded music. But otherwise you're right.
so they would leave earlier? Yesish.

Was it a well-defined group? Yes.
elderly people? young people? Mainly younger people, though there is not a strict relationship between age and the criteria relevant for this definition.
foreigners? May include foreigners.
tourists (both foreign and national)? But not tourists.
locals? May also include locals.

Did they have a buffé? You mean, where you can eat as much as you want for the same price? No, they had to pay according to the amount they ate or drunk.
so some people not only took up a seat too long time, but also ate too much? No.
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is weight relevant to the criteria?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is weight relevant to the criteria? No.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paraphrasing Tommy, they had (mostly younger) people sitting and nursing a cup of coffee all day and taking up seats that might be used by someone willing to buy a meal, so they piped in music so people wouldn't want to stay any longer than needed to consume what they'd purchased? Or to come in at all? Were the lingerers doing something specific (e. g. playing a game)? Or just hanging out there?

What else are we looking for?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Paraphrasing Tommy, they had (mostly younger) people sitting and nursing a cup of coffee all day Yes. and taking up seats that might be used by someone willing to buy a meal Yes., so they piped in music so people wouldn't want to stay any longer than needed to consume what they'd purchased? Right. Or to come in at all? Not that. Were the lingerers doing something specific Yes. (more or less) (e. g. playing a game)? But not this. Or just hanging out there? Might be this as well, to some extent, but mainly they were there to do something specific.

What else are we looking for? You might attempt to find out who the lingerers are.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Students? Homeless people? Singles looking to hook up? Just socializing? Talking? Singing? Dancing? Arm wrestling? Staying warm? Being seen?
Tommy Petersson (Tommyp)
Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the music meant to make it difficult to talk freely, so people wanting to talk went somewhere else?
Did they play "20 questions" or some other silly guesing game?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo

Students? This one. Homeless people? No. Singles looking to hook up? As this is inherent to college students, yes. Just socializing? Sometimes. Talking? Possibly. Singing? No. Dancing? Neither. Arm wrestling? Only in very rare occasions. Staying warm? During winter, yes. Being seen? Maybe.

Tommy

Was the music meant to make it difficult to talk freely, so people wanting to talk went somewhere else? Noish.
Did they play "20 questions" or some other silly guessing game? No.
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 1:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the music meant to scare off the possibly rambunctious students with its pace? it's "old timer" sound?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the music meant to scare off the possibly rambunctious students with its pace? Sort of, yes.
it's "old timer" sound? Could be, but not necessarily.
Think about where this restaurant could be, what the students typically would do there, and who those people are who were to be attracted to have lunch there.
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 3:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the restaurant near a campus? on a campus?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 4:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the students going there, getting a cup of coffee, and then sitting for hours, reading and studying, with some talking mixed in?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dref
Was the restaurant near a campus? on a campus? This one, it was an ordinary campus cafeteria.

Barbara
Were the students going there, getting a cup of coffee, and then sitting for hours, reading and studying, with some talking mixed in? Yes, exactly. That's what they did. So, now you can finish it off.
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I'm not sure that I've got it all, but when I was in college, I was completely capable of parking at a table in the snackbar for hours at a time, and only buying a cup of coffee, or a coke while I read my assignments. If they'd been playing music, I probably would have gone somewhere else to read, and that would have freed up the table for someone who wanted to buy food.

Is there more to it than that?
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Friday, April 08, 2005 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there more to it than that? No, that's it pretty much. Congratulations!

SPOILER - An der Alster, an der Elbe, an der Bill

It worked for the second time.

The idea that was employed for a second time after 270 years is to increase one's income with the help of "table music".

In 1735, the composer Georg Philipp Telemann published a series of older, rather unconnected pieces of music under the title Musica di tavolo. This collection of music became popular very quickly and is still in our days the work that is most associated with Telemann.

In 2005, a cafeteria at the Duisburg campus of University of Duisburg-Essen started to play music during lunch time (11am-1:30pm). The reason for this was, more or less .. money! This cafeteria is a really nice and cosy, but also a rather small one. So you can imagine that during most part of the day the tables are occupied by students who do their assignments, read, and so on. In particular also during lunch time. As a consequence, most of university employees and students got their lunch somewhere else, because it was hard to find a place in this cafeteria.

So the owners of the cafeteria started to put up signs saying "please free the tables during lunchtime". Quite predictably, this did not change much. Then they had the idea with the music. And it works.

The headline: Alster, Elbe, and Bille are three rivers in Hamburg, where Telemann spent the most productive time of his life.
"An der Alster, an der Elbe, an der Bill'" is also a line of a famous Hamburg traditional song.


Thanks to all who participated.

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: