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Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One of the undergradate courses I teach has enrollment limited to 20, with consent of the instructor required for admission. Although I'm allowed to screen students, I don't believe in that. So I just admit the first 20 who request permission. Every so often a student who tries to get in when it's too late tells me I should let him in or at least put him ahead of earlier requesters on the waiting list because he really, really wants to take the course. When I expressed my annoyance over this to a graduate student in my department, he said something that truly shocked me. He was shocked that I was shocked. How come??
L. Jacobs (Tweek)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the shock value more offensive or surprising? Was the subject of his statement himself or you, or something else?

Content of course relevant? Majors that take the course relevant? Importance of the class toward a degree relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the fact that he had already graduated relevant?
L. Jacobs (Tweek)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and since you're an instructor, on behalf of students everywhere: stop scheduling classes at 10am. It's like, every single class that is even sorta important is scheduled at 10am, so any given student is limited to taking one important class and a bunch of filler classes every term.

And another thing: why did it have to be 10am? That's early - it isn't as early as 9am, and I've heard some shocking reports of classes scheduled at 8am, but it's still early. I know I'm not the only student for which a 10am class means, like, five or six hours of sleep at most. I realize that most instructors don't really have a choice... but... still.
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On reflection, was the graduate who shocked you one who wanted to jump the queue?
Assuming not - did he defend the queue jumpers? Say that he had once done so himself? Had he taken your particular course?
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were you shocked that someone like him should say such a thing? or that anyone should say it?

would you have been shocked if it had been said by another lecturer? by a younger student? by a 'man in the street'?

is the subject of the course relevant?

could he have said this same thing about another subject?

did he misunderstand you? did you misunderstand him?
was a wrong assumption involved?

did what he said make you feel badly of him? did he reveal something about the way he thinks which surprised you? did he reveal a fact which shocked you?

are the exact words he said relevant? or the thing taken as a whole?
was it a question? a statement? an instruction? a warning?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By L. Jacobs (Tweek) on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:04 pm:


Was the shock value more offensive or surprising? the latter Was the subject of his statement himself or
you, or something else?false assumption

Content of course relevant? no Majors that take the course relevant? no Importance of the class
toward a degree relevant? no

By Lynne (Lynne) on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:10 pm:


Was the fact that he had already graduated relevant? no

By L. Jacobs (Tweek) on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:10 pm:


Oh, and since you're an instructor, on behalf of students everywhere: stop scheduling classes at
10am. It's like, every single class that is even sorta important is scheduled at 10am, so any given
student is limited to taking one important class and a bunch of filler classes every term. I never teach before 1pm. NEVER!!!

And another thing: why did it have to be 10am? That's early - it isn't as early as 9am, and I've heard
some shocking reports of classes scheduled at 8am, but it's still early. I know I'm not the only
student for which a 10am class means, like, five or six hours of sleep at most. I realize that most
instructors don't really have a choice... but... still.
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Quite right too. I never learned anything before 1 pm, and I don't believe anyone else ever did either.

Did he think that you ought to screen prospective students? (or "shield prospective students" as Americans would say, judging by what they call the glass thing in front of the driver's seat)
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:14 pm:


On reflection, was the graduate who shocked you one who wanted to jump the queue? no
Assuming not - did he defend the queue jumpers? no Say that he had once done so himself? no Had
he taken your particular course?no, but irrel

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:46 pm:


were you shocked that someone like him should say such a thing? yes or that anyone should say
it? no

would you have been shocked if it had been said by another lecturer? yes by a younger student? yes by
a 'man in the street'? less so

is the subject of the course relevant? nocould he have said this same thing about another subject? yes
did he misunderstand you? yope did you misunderstand him? no
was a wrong assumption involved? no

did what he said make you feel badly of him? yesish did he reveal something about the way he thinks
which surprised you? no did he reveal a fact which shocked you? yes

are the exact words he said relevant? no or the thing taken as a whole? yope
was it a question? yes a statement? no an instruction? no a warning? no
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Quite right too. I never learned anything before 1 pm, and I don't believe anyone else ever did either. What about "morning people"??

Did he think that you ought to screen prospective students? no (or "shield prospective students"
as Americans would say, judging by what they call the glass thing in front of the driver's seat) He didn't even indicate that I should sheild students from myself!!
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What about "morning people"?? "Oh", as Einstein correctly remarked (though in another context) "such people are not worth teaching" :)

Did he think that you ought to sell places on the course to the highest bidders?
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the fact he said this one:
"The country of Vatican City is completely inside of Italy"?
Eliot (Eliot)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hate being a morning person. It's so lonely.

Did he ask something you thought he already knew? Did he mention something you thought he didn't know?

Did he disagree with your complaint in any way? Did he ask something about the student?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was his remark sexist or racist or biased against a particular religion or absence of one?
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the question this one:
"Did you know that the country of Vatican City is completely inside of Italy"?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By David Burn (Woubit) on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:59 pm:


What about "morning people"?? "Oh", as Einstein correctly remarked (though in another context)
"such people are not worth teaching"

Did he think that you ought to sell places on the course to the highest bidders? no

By Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa) on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 11:51 pm:


Was the fact he said this one:
"The country of Vatican City is completely inside of Italy"? nooooooo

By Eliot (Eliot) on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:16 am:


I hate being a morning person. It's so lonely.

Did he ask something you thought he already knew? yes. GOOOOOOD QUESTION!!!!! Did he mention something you thought
he didn't know? no

Did he disagree with your complaint in any way? no Did he ask something about the student?yope

By Lynne (Lynne) on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:20 am:


Was his remark sexist or racist or biased against a particular religion or absence of one? no
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was his question asking about something that I know?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By David Burn (Woubit) on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 10:59 pm:


What about "morning people"?? "Oh", as Einstein correctly remarked (though in another context)
"such people are not worth teaching"

Did he think that you ought to sell places on the course to the highest bidders? no

By Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa) on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 11:51 pm:


Was the fact he said this one:
"The country of Vatican City is completely inside of Italy"? nooooooo

By Eliot (Eliot) on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:16 am:


I hate being a morning person. It's so lonely.

Did he ask something you thought he already knew? yes. GOOOOOOD QUESTION!!!!! Did he mention something you thought
he didn't know? no

Did he disagree with your complaint in any way? no Did he ask something about the student?yope

By Lynne (Lynne) on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:20 am:


Was his remark sexist or racist or biased against a particular religion or absence of one? no
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he undermine the value of the course? Express surprise that people would even want to do it?
Question why the subject is even taught?
Eliot (Eliot)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this something every grad student should know? Everyone should know? He should know because he's in your departmant? He should know because he knows you?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:45 am:


Did he undermine the value of the course? no Express surprise that people would even want to do
it? no
Question why the subject is even taught? no

By Eliot (Eliot) on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:51 am:


Was this something every grad student should know? yes Everyone should know? well. . .almost everyone He should know
because he's in your departmant? not specifically my dept He should know because he knows you? no
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he ask a question that you knew the answer to?