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Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - Jan 2005 » [woubit] As the sparks fly upward » Archive through January 11, 2005 « Previous Next »

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David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 05:02 pm:

Beckett? if by this you mean the Archbishop of Canterbury who was murdered in his own cathedral, then no - he had been dead for 331 years in 1501 :)
A contemporary of Henry VIII? very much so
Another monarch? no, but...
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"he had been dead for 331 years in 1501" - what's in a century or two or three :-)

One of Henry's wives?
One of his enemies?
An earl or such like?
A member of the church?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

what's in a century or two or three :-)
exactly - they were all Tooodors, once you've done one you've done 'em all :O
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 05:08 pm:

One of Henry's wives? one of Henry's wives was indeed relevant to the puzzle, but was not the man you seek :)
One of his enemies? no
An earl or such like? yes
A member of the church? no

By Lynne (Lynne) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 05:12 pm:

what's in a century or two or three :-)
exactly - they were all Tooodors, once you've done one you've done 'em all

During the Wars of the Roses the Kings became less and less memorable (sometimes even getting in the wrong order) until at last one of them was nothing but some little princes smothered in the Tower, and another, finding that his name was Clarence, had himself drowned in a spot of Malmsey wine; while the last of all even attempted to give his Kingdom to a horse. It was therefore decided, since the Stuarts were not ready yet, to have some Welsh kings called Tudors (on account of their descent from Owen Glendower) who, it was hoped, would be more memorable.

Sellars and Yeatman, 1066 and All That
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it that chappy who was falsely accused of having an adulterous affair with one of Henry's less than well loved wives?

Wasn't he executed in a rather nasty manner?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any play by Shakespeare involved?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 05:28 pm:

Was it that chappy who was falsely accused of having an adulterous affair with one of Henry's less than well loved wives? no

Wasn't he executed in a rather nasty manner? yes, but that doesn't really narrow the field down an awful lot :)

By Alizon (Alizon) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 05:39 pm:

Any play by Shakespeare involved? not especially, though Shakespeare did (or according to certain eminent authorities did not) write a play about Henry VIII that included the relevant wife
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The relevant wife, was she:
Catherine of Aragon?
Anne Boleyn?
Jane Seymour?
Anne of Cleves?
Catherine Howard?
Catherine Parr?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alizon (Alizon) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 06:10 pm:

The relevant wife, was she:
Catherine of Aragon? this one
Anne Boleyn?
Jane Seymour?
Anne of Cleves?
Catherine Howard?
Catherine Parr?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Henry's brother Arthur?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 06:26 pm:

Henry's brother Arthur? yes, indeed - well done :) Prince Arthur, elder son of Henry VII and first husband of Catherine of Aragon. Died of an unknown illness in 1503 at the age of seventeen, two years after his marriage to Catherine. Now then...
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I almost forgot - thank you very much for the explanation.

So we have here a quite famous English nobleman who avoided something because of Ursa Maior?

Did he hold any office in the Church?

Was he English?

Was he young/old by 1501? Is it relevant?

Do you expect us to google?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the title of the puzzle relevant?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alizon (Alizon) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 06:32 pm:

So we have here a quite famous English nobleman who avoided something because of Ursa Maior? we have here Arthur, Prince of Wales, son of Henry VII, King of England. In 1501 he married Catherine, daughter of Ferdinand, King of Aragon, and Isabella, Queen of Castile and Leon. The wedding took place in Old St Paul's Cathedral in the City of London. Thanks to the existence of the constellation known by various names including Ursa Major, the Great Bear, a potentially inauspicious circumstance was avoided.

Did he hold any office in the Church? no

Was he English? yes

Was he young/old by 1501? Is it relevant? he was fifteen in 1501. This is not especially relevant.

Do you expect us to google? I have no objection in the least if you wish to do this :)
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alizon (Alizon) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 06:35 pm:

Is the title of the puzzle relevant? only in an obscure fashion, but if you like hunting for obscure connections, it may be of some small use :)
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this "inauspicious circumstance" have something to do with the marriage date? the marriage itself? Arthur? Catherine?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Alizon (Alizon) on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 06:48 pm:

Did this "inauspicious circumstance" have something to do with the marriage date? no the marriage itself? not precisely, but... Arthur? yes Catherine? no
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 6:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

His health? ability to have children? the very fact he married Catherine?

was this circumstance permanent? transitory?

astrology involved?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "somewhat involved" other person was Catherine of A.?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the circumstance related to the wedding ceremony?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the circumstance was somehow influenced by the Great Bear, right?

If so, could changing a time when something relevant had to happen (like postponing an event) make any difference? Was it a real threat (if I can call it a threat) or an imaginary one (as a fear from an unfavourable position of stars)?

And the thing avoided was rather a minor nuisance, right? Was it actually avoided?

So, do we have to find out what the circumstance was, right? Is there any other thing for us to reveal?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The sparks from the title... are they related to somebody burned at a stake? Something burning? A fire?

Would it be possible for a similar situation to happen nowadays?